Who has to go

[hotpie]

Back to square one for the Pies. A quick summary of our list:

Shaw: summer in the gym. starting tomorrow. He's on a years notice otherwise he's out.
Lonie: ditto. I'd trade him tomorrow if the opportunity came up. must remove softness out of his game.
Davis: out
Walker: blame Malthouse for selecting him and then playing him out of position. He'll be ok but he's two years away form being a player
Woewodin: poor game, reasonable season. Shocking lack of focus to give the MCC Members the bird after scoring a goal - we were playing Brisbane out there, not Melbourne
Scotland: for sale.
Licuria: his career is at the crossroads. Officially overrated as the only senior player to choke two years running.
Lokan: for sale, or a year at Williamstown
Cloke: one years's notice. Needs to learn to run, kick and mark. Badly utilised by MM
Kinnear:got no game time because MM had Cloke and Walker forward. Delist.
Cole: has the ability, must be kept. needs time (more time than most it seems)
Didak: not the worst
Holland: poor game. retain.
Buckley/Burns/O'Bree - fair to reasonable
Fraser - fantastic. Needed McKee to assist.
Presti/Wakelin/Johnson/Clement - good players esp Presti and Clem
Tarrant - worked hard. Only target.

Outside of the 22, players to go are:
Betheras, McKee, Richardson, Molloy, Freeborn, McGough.
Williams to hang on by the skin of his teeth.

The chance has passed us by, unless the New breed of Walker, Richards, Shackleton, King and Davidson (and Tarks) can step up big time next year.

 

[jerry springer]

Obree must go,he did nothing yesterday

cole must be kept,its was his 18th game he will learn and be a star in a few years

holland should go,you need ball winners to win flags and he cant win the ball

Betheras, McKee, Richardson, Molloy, Freeborn, could go,they wouldnt of help yesturday

keep Mcgough,at least we know he will go get the hard ball

as ive previously said we need another bona-fide star to take the pressure off bucks.hopefully balmy was ringing browns manager last night.

 

[philthy]

look hotpie were all disappointed about collingwood's performance yesterday but dont go critising every player in our list in which u said up to 11 guys should be delisted or traded.

at the end of the day, yes we had guys that were well down from previous weeks like shaw, cole, holland, cloke but we ran into a hungrier side in the lions who simply wanted it more than we did.

at no stage should we be considering a clean out.

we need to address issues that have killed us in the last two gf's which include our depth in the ruck division and also getting another tall forward to provide a more consistent option than kinnear or walker.

we will be active in trade period no doubt about it, obviously the option of getting nick stevens or nathan brown will be a number 1 priority now

its hard to stay positive but the club will turn itself around. remember we will not see another team like brisbane for a long time (easily the chicago bulls of the afl). i just hope we dont end up like the utah jazz who lost in successive years against them.

we will be alright

 

[hotpie]

I mentioned four names who should be traded, plus another six Willy players (including Richo and Freeborn who were goinbg anyway)

Its not a cleanout I am recommending. Not by any stretch. Turnover of 8-10 each year is normal.

 

[Lockyer24]

Nothing like a good Grand Final spanking to proceed trade week.
Scotland - should be traded so he can get better opportunities elsewhere
Lonie - his fathers health may have contributed to this, but he went backwards this year. Didn't raise a yelp in the finals. Package him up to get Brown or Stevens.
O'Bree - offer him to Essendon for Solomon
Kinnear - Doggies?

 

[go team]

Originally posted by philthy
look hotpie were all disappointed about collingwood's performance yesterday but dont go critising every player in our list in which u said up to 11 guys should be delisted or traded.

wasn't there something like 8 "improvements" on your 2002 Grand Final team running out onto the field yesterday?

 

[Babylove]

Back to square one for the Pies. A quick summary of our list:

Shaw: Played like his father yesterday. Been good for us this year, but not when it counted. Earns a years reprieve for his good year
Lonie: Could be trade bait. Valuable, but struggles at times.
Davis: out. Too hot or cold. When he's hot his brilliant, but when he's cold, he's pathetic.
Walker: Young, inexperienced. Will be a good ruckman when he gains said experience. Keep him.
Woewodin: poor game, reasonable season. Everyone has bad games, his came in a big one, but he wasn't alone. Keep him, he's still valuable to us.
Scotland: for sale. He was good in the latter part of the year but doesn't always perform. Could be another used as trade bait.
Licuria: Good player. He didn't play to his best yesterday, but still had more than twenty touches. Tried all day and did look like he was playing with heart. Keep him.
Lokan: Young, in his first year. I'd give him another year, but he may be put up as trade bait.
Cloke: Played out of position and suffered yesterday. He's been tried forward before with little success. He's an excellent backman whether it's on an opponent or as loose man in defence. Vital part of our defence. Keep him, but MM must keep him down there.
Kinnear:Never been a fan of him. He works hard, but is patchy at best in his performances. With the established guys in the team, and the youngsters coming through, his use will become less for us. Delist or trade.
Cole: Another youngster who needs to be given time to develop. keep him.
Didak: A game breaker and good at it. Scored three goals yesterday. A good player. Keep him.
Holland: Poor game. Has been a good tagger. Not convinced on him though. We'll see.
Buckley/Burns: Always good and reliable. Played well yesterday, though Bucks was below his best, still a good game. Keep both of them.
O'Bree - fair yesterday in patches. Proved valuable this year. He gets another year.
Fraser - Fantastic. Needs an established Ruckman to back him up while Walker is developing. Probably rely on Rocca too much in that position.
Presti/Wakelin/Johnson/Clement - All good players. Along with Cloke make up a tight good defensive unit. Must keep these five together as long as possible. Keep all of them.
Tarrant - worked hard. Only target. Good forward. Probably needs to develop being able to play when Rocca's not there. But he is only 22 (something a lot of people forget). He's good now, and probably still has a lot of improving to do. Leigh Matthews said his the hardest player to match up on, as proven by him having about four opponents yesterday.

Outside of the 22::
Betheras: Could be trade bait. Obviously out of the future plan. Good player, may be good as a player to come in.
McKee: Suffered by rule changes to the ruck. If we can't get another established ruckman we may need to keep him to back up Josh. If we can get another Ruckman, with the younger guys we've got coming through, he may be one to let go.
Richardson: Been around for 12 years. Unlikely to get back into the senior side. We aren't lacking senior players anymore, he may retire, or we may delist him.
Molloy: Still useful. Was injured in the VFL GF. Would have been useful up forward as a target to replace Rocca if fit. Injuries are the biggest concern with him. When we have both Taz and Rocca he isn't so useful, but would be good to have around if one of them goes down. Especially if we can't pick up another key forward.
Freeborn: Another that could retire. Don't think he could get back into the senior line up at any rate.
McGough: Still young, worth to keep and develop more before getting rid of him.
Williams: Been handy for us most of the year in the middle. Had a bad patch toward the end of the season. I'd keep him around next year and see how he goes.
King: Seen him in the VFL a couple of times. Good Future talent. Keep him.
C.Cloke: Another good younger player.

Don't know enough about the rest.

[

 

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by Babylove
Back to square one for the Pies. A quick summary of our list:

Shaw: Played like his father yesterday. Been good for us this year, but not when it counted. Earns a years reprieve for his good year
Lonie: Could be trade bait. Valuable, but struggles at times.
Davis: out. Too hot or cold. When he's hot his brilliant, but when he's cold, he's pathetic.
Walker: Young, inexperienced. Will be a good ruckman when he gains said experience. Keep him.
Woewodin: poor game, reasonable season. Everyone has bad games, his came in a big one, but he wasn't alone. Keep him, he's still valuable to us.
Scotland: for sale. He was good in the latter part of the year but doesn't always perform. Could be another used as trade bait.
Licuria: Good player. He didn't play to his best yesterday, but still had more than twenty touches. Tried all day and did look like he was playing with heart. Keep him.
Lokan: Young, in his first year. I'd give him another year, but he may be put up as trade bait.
Cloke: Played out of position and suffered yesterday. He's been tried forward before with little success. He's an excellent backman whether it's on an opponent or as loose man in defence. Vital part of our defence. Keep him, but MM must keep him down there.
Kinnear:Never been a fan of him. He works hard, but is patchy at best in his performances. With the established guys in the team, and the youngsters coming through, his use will become less for us. Delist or trade.
Cole: Another youngster who needs to be given time to develop. keep him.
Didak: A game breaker and good at it. Scored three goals yesterday. A good player. Keep him.
Holland: Poor game. Has been a good tagger. Not convinced on him though. We'll see.
Buckley/Burns: Always good and reliable. Played well yesterday, though Bucks was below his best, still a good game. Keep both of them.
O'Bree - fair yesterday in patches. Proved valuable this year. He gets another year.
Fraser - Fantastic. Needs an established Ruckman to back him up while Walker is developing. Probably rely on Rocca too much in that position.
Presti/Wakelin/Johnson/Clement - All good players. Along with Cloke make up a tight good defensive unit. Must keep these five together as long as possible. Keep all of them.
Tarrant - worked hard. Only target. Good forward. Probably needs to develop being able to play when Rocca's not there. But he is only 22 (something a lot of people forget). He's good now, and probably still has a lot of improving to do. Leigh Matthews said his the hardest player to match up on, as proven by him having about four opponents yesterday.

Outside of the 22::
Betheras: Could be trade bait. Obviously out of the future plan. Good player, may be good as a player to come in.
McKee: Suffered by rule changes to the ruck. If we can't get another established ruckman we may need to keep him to back up Josh. If we can get another Ruckman, with the younger guys we've got coming through, he may be one to let go.
Richardson: Been around for 12 years. Unlikely to get back into the senior side. We aren't lacking senior players anymore, he may retire, or we may delist him.
Molloy: Still useful. Was injured in the VFL GF. Would have been useful up forward as a target to replace Rocca if fit. Injuries are the biggest concern with him. When we have both Taz and Rocca he isn't so useful, but would be good to have around if one of them goes down. Especially if we can't pick up another key forward.
Freeborn: Another that could retire. Don't think he could get back into the senior line up at any rate.
McGough: Still young, worth to keep and develop more before getting rid of him.
Williams: Been handy for us most of the year in the middle. Had a bad patch toward the end of the season. I'd keep him around next year and see how he goes.
King: Seen him in the VFL a couple of times. Good Future talent. Keep him.
C.Cloke: Another good younger player.

Don't know enough about the rest.

[

man that is hard to read.

 

[The Scarecrow]

To start with, Davis, Kinnear, Holland, Obree, then we will see who else is ready to go away.

 

[jimmy_clement#8]

mckee. i dont see him staying much longer. then we need a backup ruckman. so theres stevens, brown and a backup ruckman. the pies will have to give up a lot for that. expect to see some fan's favourites depart the club ie. o'bree, lonie, etc.

 

[Babylove]

Originally posted by PAfolwr
man that is hard to read.

Sorry, I've discovered the colour button and I've been having some fun with it.

 

[cwood_rules]

yea dont worry there will be alotta heads rolling this year...
i'l put in order who i think should stay an who i think should say their goodbyes:

Untouchables:
Nathan Buckley
Chris Tarrant
Anthony Rocca
Scott Burns

Not likely to be traded:
Paul Licuria
Tarkyn Lockyer
Shane Wakelin
James Clement
Simon Prestigiacomo

Possible Trade baits:
Ryan Lonie
Richard Cole
Shane O'bree
Leon Davis
Steve Mckee
Brodie Holland
Mark McGough
Andrew williams

Possibilities of Retirement:
Glenn Freeborn
Jarrod Molloy
Mark Richardson

the other guys i missed out will prolly stay

 

[Babylove]

Originally posted by cwood_rules
yea dont worry there will be alotta heads rolling this year...
i'l put in order who i think should stay an who i think should say their goodbyes:

Untouchables:
Nathan Buckley
Chris Tarrant
Anthony Rocca
Scott Burns

Not likely to be traded:
Paul Licuria
Tarkyn Lockyer
Shane Wakelin
James Clement
Simon Prestigiacomo

Possible Trade baits:
Ryan Lonie
Richard Cole
Shane O'bree
Leon Davis
Steve Mckee
Brodie Holland
Mark McGough
Andrew williams

Possibilities of Retirement:
Glenn Freeborn
Jarrod Molloy
Mark Richardson

the other guys i missed out will prolly stay

I'd add Cloke to the Not likely to be traded list. And Ben Kinnear to the Possible trade baits list. Jarrod may hang around next year if we can't get another key forward, and McKee may be kept if we cant pick up an established ruckman.

 

[guess_who]

Let's be serious here ok, you can't just simply sack a player based on one game. I don't think that you should sack any player unless they have done something pretty bad. Scotland for sale? why I keep asking you why? he playes 80 to 90 minutes a game and racks up 15-20 possesions comming on and off the bench. He uses the ball beutifully, besides you simply can't trade or sack half your list it takes time as Collingwood have shown in the past three years. O'bree is also a very good player, not much skill but oh my word does he try hard week in week out, he is our fifth highest kick getter.

 

[jimmy_clement#8]

Originally posted by guess_who
Let's be serious here ok, you can't just simply sack a player based on one game. I don't think that you should sack any player unless they have done something pretty bad. Scotland for sale? why I keep asking you why? he playes 80 to 90 minutes a game and racks up 15-20 possesions comming on and off the bench. He uses the ball beutifully, besides you simply can't trade or sack half your list it takes time as Collingwood have shown in the past three years. O'bree is also a very good player, not much skill but oh my word does he try hard week in week out, he is our fifth highest kick getter.

i agree scotland's skills are too good to trade away

 

[BlahzeyBlah]

Here's my run-down of the list, it might be a little long so bear with me...

Shaw: Has had a pretty good year, looked a little overawed yesterday, but he wasn't alone, he'll remain.
Lonie: Hasn't had the best of seasons, but prior to this year has been quite good for us. Keep him for another year and see if he can turn things around in 2004. I think we're expecting too much impact from players who get little game time.
Davis: Oddly enough was probably one of our better players yesterday (which isn't saying a lot), but he did manage to get his hands on the ball, and at least look like he wanted to manufacture something. His future is up in the air at the moment.
Walker: Young and very raw, but has a big body and isn't afraid to throw his weight around. Once he settles in a little more and they work on his skills, could be very valuable. Has been thrown in the deep end all year, and hasn't ducked out of a contest.
Woewodin: Has had a fairly good year with patches of terrible form and brilliant form. Has been servicable during our finals campaign (bar yesterday), will remain.
Scotland: Although I'd rather keep him, I've got a feeling he'll be part of a trade package. Hopefully not, but I can see it happening. Has been good for us since working his way back into the team, averaging 18-20 mostly effective possessions a game when you're only getting 50-60 minutes gametime each week is impressive. I'd prefer Scotland rather than Stevens.
Licuria: Will definitely remain, he has black and white coursing through his veins. Might not have had the best day yesterday, or the best season for that matter (in comparison to his 2001 and 2002), but has a lot of heart and always puts his body on the line.
Lokan: First year players historically slow down towards the end of the year, this is the case with Lokan. Has been good enough for us to remain at the club, should be better for the ton of experience he's had in his first year at AFL level.
Cloke: Has been a good player for us, ever reliable and will always give 100%. Was played out of position yesterday (possibly due to necessity) and also had a huge emotional burden on his shoulders due to missing the GF last year. Tried his guts out with all things considered. As already mentioned, is a vital part of our defence.
Kinnear: Most likely played his last game in a Collingwood jumper yesterday, and I think he knew it. Has had 5 years to prove himself, and admittedly has been decent the last few weeks, but I think we'll see him get traded to a team in need of big men.
Cole: We'll definitely keep him, has a strong body and the tools to be a great player. Just needs to improve his decision making and execution, but we'll persist with him and with more experience and persistence hopefully these problems will be fixed.
Didak: Was in our best three or four yesterday as far as I'm concerned. Played a great game, did everything that was expected of him... Kicked goals, applied pressure which created turnovers, had a safe pair of hands and made the most out of his opportunities. Hopefully his form will be more consistent next year, we definitely need to keep Dids.
Holland: Has had a good year and has probably done enough to get his head off the chopping block it was on at the end of last year. Didn't perform yesterday, but we'll put that down to a bad game.
Burns: He should play out his career in the black and white. Honest, hard working and reliable player who rarely makes a mistake (even though we saw one or two yesterday). Loved by Collingwood, respected by the football world.
Buckley: Was below his best yesterday, but kept trying. Don't think that I need to say much if anything about Buckley, it goes without saying...
O'Bree: Was shot down by injuries last year, and managed to find some of his 2001 form this year. Is still relatively young and would be considered one of the mature heads in the team. Will keep him around more than likely, as he provides a good option in the midfield and as a goal kicker.
Fraser: Easily our best player yesterday. It's now safe to say that Josh has really started to come of age. Was up against two ruckmen yesterday and never backed down, despite his light frame he gave his all and played his heart out. Has really thrived on having huge responsibility, words cannot do the kid justice after his efforts yesterday (and throughout the last half of the season).
Presti: In our top three players yesterday, easily got the better of Brown, which is remarkable and a credit to him not only because of Brown's class, but also because of the fact that the ball spent more time in Brisbane's attacking zone and in their possession. Presti does not get enough credit, is one of the leagues best and most reliable defenders.
Clement: Always gives his all, and is an integral part to our defence. Should remain at the club, as mentioned above, we need to keep our main defenders together for as long as possible.
Johnson: Has really stepped up a notch this year, didn't have the best game yesterday but always puts his head over the ball (example: crunching into Lynch, still gathering the ball and feeding it out, despite being in obvious pain). Has had a great finals series despite yesterday.
Wakelin: Has been a great player for Collingwood since coming across, is one of our older players and has been honest and reliable in defence. Will remain with the Pies and is likely to play out his career in the black and white.
Tarrant: Has had a fantastic season, and being young should only get better. Had so many different opponents yesterday, and was most times double teamed if not triple teamed. Despite this, he continually presented and gave his all, whether leading and marking, or gathering the ground ball and feeding it out. Should work on his kicking for goal before next season begins though.
Rocca: Despite what some people have said, he didn't cost us the game yesterday. What he did was silly, but he knows it and is taking responsibility for it (evidenced by apologising to all his teammates individually). Has provided great service to the club for a long time, and has really stepped up a notch the last two seasons. He'll be back bigger and better next year.

Betheras: A favourite of mine, but he'll probably be traded which is understandable. He's a fringe player who is constantly in and out of the team whenever his form slips a little, therefore he'll be considered possible trade bait. Has provided solid service to Collingwood during our bad years and our better years, will be sorry to see him go if that happens.
McKee: Can't see him working his way back into the team, possibly if he doesn't get traded and the rucking rules are changed again we might see the return of Stunning. I've never been a critic of Steve, and I think he was great for us last year, but his ship may have sailed with the rule changes and players like Richards and C. Cloke coming up the ranks.
Richardson: Should retire, has been loyal to the club and a reasonable-to-good player for us in years passed, which is appreciated but he's never going to get back into the seniors.
Molloy: Had a great 2001 and looked very promising, however injuries throughout 2002 have cost him greatly and he's never seemed the same. Could still possibly offer something, but I can see him getting traded or delisted. Seems a little disheartened with the club and his career at the moment.
Freeborn: Likely to retire or be delisted, was a good player for us coming across from North and would have helped a few of the younger guys out as they came through the ranks.
McGough: Can win the ball and does the in and under stuff. Really needs to work on his disposal, but if Johnson and Licuria can improve in that area I'm sure he can. I say we persist with him and give him some time, he's still very young and I'd prefer an in-and-under midfielder with poor disposal (which we can work on) than a receiver who backs out of contests. That being said, he might be offered up as trade bait due to the depth of our midfield.
Williams: Really needs to get a good pre-season in and try to recapture the form he displayed earlier this year. Could be a good forward/forward-flank option for us, but the last half of the year was terrible for him. Seemed to be hearing footsteps quite a bit, ever since receiving that hard knock he seemed a little overwhelmed or cautious when attacking the ball. He will probably remain since MM seems to have a soft spot for him.

Out of the younger players coming through, I think David King and Luke Shackleton (providing he can lose a bit of weight) look to be the most ready-made senior footballers out of the lot. We'll definitely see them push for senior selection next year. I just want Malthouse to blood a few more youngsters in the Wizard Cup next year, throw them in there and see how they go.

 

[Nic]

Why don't we just get rid of everybody and start again.

 

[McGough27]

My predictions :

Betheras - Always gives 100% when he plays . Could be used as trade bait . If not , then he should stay .
Buckely - Stay .
Burns - Stay .
Clement - Stay .
Cam Cloke - Stay and be played as the 2nd ruckman if we can't trade for a seasoned one .
Jason Cloke - Stay .
Cole - Stay , and let him play every game .
Davidson - Stay and also let him play every game in the forward line with Tarrant and Rocca .
Leon Davis - Trade bait .
Didak - Stay .
Fraser - Stay .
Freeborn - Retire or delist .
Holland - Stay .
Johnson - Stay .
King - Stay and to be given games .
Kinnear - Trade or delist .
Licuria - Stay .
Lockyer - Stay .
Lokan - Stay .
Lonie - Stay . Didn't have that good of a year but as someone mentioned earlier , his fathers health may play some part in that . Should be played as a wingman , needs to be played in a more damaging role - ie kicking goals and with his good clean skills delivering to the forwards .
McGough - Still young (19yo) . Stay .
McKee - Traded if we can pick up a seasoned ruckman . Otherwise delist or keep him on the list as a backup in case Fraser gets injured .
Molloy - Trade bait .
O'Bree - Possible trade bait , if not , keep .
Presti - Keep .
Richardson - Retire .
Rocca - Stay .
Scotland - Would prefer to stay but could be used as trade bait .
Shackleton - Stay and be given some games .
Shaw - Stay .
Swan - Stay .
Tarrant - Stay .
Wakelin - Stay .
Walker - Stay .
Williams - Started well but faded badly . Possible trade bait or keep and next year is make or break for him .
Woewodin - Stay .

 

[sebastien]

Indispensible: Buckley, Burns, Tarrant, Rocca, Wakelin, Presti, Clement, Johnson, Fraser, Licuria, Lockyer, Woewodin, J.Cloke - the core group, especially the backline must remain. have to be a top player if we trade any of them

Useful: Didak - staying for sure
Holland - probably wont be traded as he is our tagger
Williams - may be traded, but still handy
O'Bree - stay and return to the form that made him one of our key midfielders
Shaw & Lokan - must improve, still needed for their runs. one of them could be traded (possibly Lokan) but unlikely
Molloy - trade bait, but can still stay for another year or two when the younger guys develop

The Future: Cole, Walker - key players in the future, game time needed for more experience

Hot Prospects: Richards, King, Swan, Davidson, C.Cloke, Shackleton, McGough - guys coming through, should all debut next year if not already

Backup: Davis, Betheras, Kinnear, McKee, Scotland - trade baits. very sad if they go but there is no choice if we wanna win

Retirement: Richardson, Freeborn - probably gone, wont get a game as the youth will be preferred. needs space in our list for the Shaws and draft

 

[rioli17]

Originally posted by hotpie
Back to square one for the Pies. A quick summary of our list:

Cloke: one years's notice. Needs to learn to run, kick and mark. Badly utilised by MM

I think Clokes pathetic performance will finally put paid to some of the boofheads last year that suggested his absence cost victory in 2002 GF...fair call?

 

[Rival_V]

Re: Re: Who has to go

Originally posted by rioli17
I think Clokes pathetic performance will finally put paid to some of the boofheads last year that suggested his absence cost victory in 2002 GF...fair call?

Nah. It was the last few minutes. Junk time if you will of the 2nd quarter which cost us that GF.

 

[FIGJAM]

Originally posted by Nic
Why don't we just get rid of everybody and start again.

Haha!

Funny how the list didn't look so bad last Monday!!

Freeborn, Richo and Molloy are definites. Kinnear and Davis might have some trade value to clubs, but eitherway, I'd flick them too. And that's all you need!

 

[MarkT]

It would be stupid to over react. The fact is that we were smashed by an awsome side. No one would have beaten them on Saturday. Out list has improved from toward the end of '99 until today in a very steady fashion. We just need some fine tuning. The truth is, though, it will be very difficult to catch Brisbane regardless.

We need a ruckman. I have said it for so long I am sick and tired of saying it buit it has been obvious for 3 years. Josh could be a good ruckman but I'd rather use him as a floater and a danger change up follower/forward. He is still not a good enough tap ruckman. All credit for his big hearted effort throughout the finals but he simply does not give quality ball to our midfield.

I don't know who to target in the ruck. Perhaps we should offer McDonnald a good contract. If he is not out of contract we could at least put pressure on Brisbane to extend his contract at higher money to add further cap presure on them. Hopefully other clubs will make huge offers to players like Power who have great potential. Their prices need to be bid up.

White and Allan are possibilities that may be very gettable but they are physically suspect and mentally weak IMO so I am not that keen on them. I would have the football dept. ring the managers of every 1st and 2nd choice ruckman in the AFL and make an appropriate offer and take the best of what we can get.

We need a third tall forward. I am not prepared to bank on Walker and/or Davidson for 2004. We need to target Rawlings.

We need a midfielder who is a gun forward - Nathan Brown. Forget stevens. we have a truck load of midfielders and if we get a ruckman we will have a midfiled capable of matching Brisbanes IMO. Brown is a gun midfielder and as a changing forward with Didak we are covered.

We need a tall defender with dash. We have some options with Walker and Dividson but getting Rawlings would provide another option and we could try all 3 at both ends with Cameron Cloke another to be tried.

I am happy with the backline and even yesterday, given how the ball came in they held up well. The exception being Cole who I am not sold on. He has a big rep with many supporters but frankly hasn't justified it yet. I can see talent and I love his tackling but he makes too many mistakes and still does not have good enough decision making. On Saturday he was very poor. I would move Burns back into defense if we are able to strengthen the midfield. That would give us a very good defense.

So who has to go:

To retire:
Mark Richardson

To retire or delist if no trade
Glen Freborne

To delist if no trade:
Ben Kinnear, Steve McKee, Andrew Williams, Jarrod Molloy.

Trade offer or keep:
Rupert Betheras, Leon Davis, Heath Scotland, Shane O’Bree, Lokan

Cole has 1 year to show significant improvement.

I have 6 compulsory changes which will account for draftees. The rest depend on who we get. I would offer our first round pick plus the players listed above as well as considerring whever else is wanted by the clubs we have to deal with. The above 11 players are as many as, or probably more than, you would want to turn over in 1 year when you are the second best side in the comp. Don't be sucked in by 1 game against the best side of the modern era.

 

[CharlieG]

I don't know whether you guys are interested in outside views, but I'll give my opinions on a couple of themes anyway.

Davis, Molloy and Kinnear have been mentioned as potential trade baits. They won't get any interest from other clubs. Kinnear and Molloy might get some nibbles in the pre-season draft, but no club in their right mind would actually give anything up for these three in particular.

Trade bait that I could imagine you being willing to give up are Scotland, O'Bree and Lonie. These guys don't have huge value, but you could get reasonable draft picks for them. I'm not really sure why you'd bother though... they already have jobs to do, and I'd say their value to Collingwood is more than their trade value.

If you're genuinely in the market for Brown or Stevens, then its bad news for at least one of your top players. With pick 16, your first round pick isn't nearly at the level required for either of those two, so I think that you'd be looking at probably a trade involving the pick, another lower pick and Licuria or Cloke. I don't know whether that would be attractive to you or not.

As a non-Pies fan, I think you guys are still in reasonably good shape. I wouldn't be trying to import an entirely new list... a lot of your players are still in their late teens/early 20s, and I think you will be near the top again next year.

 

[Lestat]

look hotpie were all disappointed about collingwood's performance yesterday but dont go critising every player in our list in which u said up to 11 guys should be delisted or traded.

at the end of the day, yes we had guys that were well down from previous weeks like shaw, cole, holland, cloke but we ran into a hungrier side in the lions who simply wanted it more than we did.

at no stage should we be considering a clean out.

we need to address issues that have killed us in the last two gf's which include our depth in the ruck division and also getting another tall forward to provide a more consistent option than kinnear or walker.

we will be active in trade period no doubt about it, obviously the option of getting nick stevens or nathan brown will be a number 1 priority now

its hard to stay positive but the club will turn itself around. remember we will not see another team like brisbane for a long time (easily the chicago bulls of the afl). i just hope we dont end up like the utah jazz who lost in successive years against them.

we will be alright

Eddie.....is that you???