Who is the second biggest Victorian club. *MB Thread*

[gopies1981]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

Really?

Then explain why Collingwood played Port Adelaide at the Dome in 2006 (the week after beating Essendon on Anzac day for the first time since 2002) yet only 32k turned up?

2006 v Port Adelaide Telstra Dome: 32,276

Not to mention:
2005 v Port Adelaide Telstra Dome: 35,844

Collingwood had the "general advantage" of the Dome at its disposal.

But the last 10 home games in which collingwood have played against interstate teams the pies have average 48,000 comparede to essendon 40,000! That is a pretty big difference!

Also last year Collingwood averaged 59,000 to its home games compared to essendon 46,000!

13,000 is a big difference and would explain that Collingwood do have more supporters then Essendon!

Please give me one valid reason why you think that Essendon Have more supporter's then Collingwood? I bet you will struggle to find one!

 

[dave_27]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

Please give me one valid reason why you think that Essendon Have more supporter's then Collingwood? I bet you will struggle to find one!

Where have I stated that?

The argument is not about Essendon having more supporters.

I think you pie fans are getting side tracked. The argument is about how far pies fans think they are ahead that they are in a league of their own when statistics over the last decade suggest the gap is closer than they think.

 

[Aussie Joe]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

Please give me one valid reason why you think that Essendon Have more supporter's then Collingwood? I bet you will struggle to find one!

More teeth? Yes Essendon have more.

More supporters? No your unwashed filth definitely have more.

 

[windyhill]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

Teams are really just franchises, mate.

Loyalty doesn't stem from a proud tradition instilled in a particular club, it's primarily founded on longevity of success. The majority of supporters are merely vein, simple individuals (children, migrants, newbies ect) - selecting a team because of success, the colours of a strip, post code ect.

I think it's only a minority whom select a team based on current day morals demonstrated by one act or another during a season. Don't make out Essendon or Collingwood are different to any other club.. size is irrelvant. <--- Don't misinterpret that, Chief.

Champ, you obviously are the type that hasn`t been to vic park,windyhill, moorabbin, etc. I had Essendon slammed down my throat from day one, it`s in the blood son, wouldn`t have it any other way

 

[Chewy]

A Collingwood fan who brags his club is the biggest in the AFL is a bit like the bloke who brags that his wife has the biggest vagina in Melbourne.

 

[kizzaob]

A is a bit like the bloke who brags that his wife has the biggest vagina in Melbourne.

Not really something to brag about.......

 

[dave10]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

my mistake, geelong not melbourne



this wasn't a dig at hawthorn, i was very suprised that hadn't played more to be honest. i decided to go back 20 years and those were the numbers that came out. i would seriously suggest though that in terms of the richmond hawthorn debate this is pretty damning for hawthorn.

hawthorn is no more a "work in progress" than any other team. i'm sure it has grown more than say richmond over the last 25 years but football suport moves very slowly as few change teams after a certain age and most inherit teams




it is possible though highly unlikely that carlton or essendon have played many games at the dome that would have pulled over 70,000. as stated earlier essendon have only played 70,000 plus crowds against geelong in the last 20 years (outside the big 4) and carlton have played none. both have had many opportunities in premiership and high finishing years to do otherwise but have failed. any claim that there are any significant number of games that either have played at the dome that would have pulled 70,000 requires putting history aside and plonking on a pair of rose coloured glasses

there is no way of arguing against it that these particular stats are very positive towards richmond given their lack of success over the period

There have been several Essendon games that would definately have fallen into the 70,0o00+ in recent years. Without thought, both 2007 and 2008 games against Geelong would have drawn upwards of 80,000 and the game V Hawthorn in 2001 would have also drawn over 70,000. There is 3 right there without any thought.

 

[dave10]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

entitled to your opinion dave but i would again draw your attention to the plethora of stats that have been posted throughout this thread

in 2004 Collingwood was on the bottom with 1 win after 8 rounds and eventually finished 4th last. essendon were in the 8 for the whole season from round 3 onwards. Essendon were alot closer to Collingwood last year than we were to essendon in 2004.

in 2004 the highest mcg attendances were around 60,000 as the was a gaping big hole in one end of the stadium.

essendon's approx crowds at the g that year were:

Carlton 60,000
Collingwood 57,000
Collingwood 53,000
Richmond 48,000
Melbourne 48,000
Carlton 45,000
Hawthorn 43,000
Sydney 39,000

Its docklands crowds included 4 crowds higher than the richmond figure and crowds of 38,000 against freo and 36,000 against port.

Collingwood pulled 44,000 against the eagles at the docklands and crowds at the g included 39000 against richmond, 34,000 against brisbane (following back to back grand finals) and 27,000 against port adelaide (following successvie years of finals bouts)

Far from reducing essendon's figures, playing at the docklands almost certainly increased them that year.

And, after all that, essendon averaged less than 1,000 more to its games than Collingwood

....basically the more you look at it the more yawning the gap appears

Really? Not sure about that. Last year we lost 8 in a row from round 4 on the way to a very ordinary 12th - with a percentage in the low 70%'s being thrashed every week. We were never in the running all year. I actually would argue that the 2004 seasons were almost identical in reverse.

I think Dave 27 has some good points.

 

[Ant_]

Not really something to brag about.......

<sigh> that was his point.

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

Well given that Hawthorn is the biggest club in the world, determining the second biggest Victorian club is pretty insignificant.

 

[dave10]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

Yeah for a brief while off the back of the best season in your history at the start of the century.. doesn't bode well for the rest of the millenium

Wrong. It was actually 1998, a year we finished 8th!!

 

[dave10]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

yet again dave you've chosen a shallow set of stats which is all that can be assembled to paint any picture of equality of draw power between collingwood and essendon. we've already established (i assume so as you haven't responded) that the docklands actually draws a premium in lower drawing crowds over the G for a start, particularly over time given bad weather.

From 2000 onwards, a period where essendon has been marginally better than Collingwood in terms of number of wins, these are the approximate average crowds between Collingwood, essendon and non vic teams:

Vs Brisbane

Collingwood 50,000
essendon 43,000

Vs Freo
C 36,000
E 36,000

Vs WC
C 39,000
E 34,000

Vs Adelaide
C 41,000
E 35,000

Vs PA
C 32
E 36

Vs Syd
C 45
E 43

Vs All Non Vic
C 40
E 37

So, despite the general advantage of essendon playing lower drawing games at the dome (particularly during bad weather and "out" years) Collingwood still has essendon covered against all teams except port (which can easily be explained given we have only played them three times, each time in the wet at the G and essendon's included the first ever game at the dome).

Of Collingwood's last 10 home games against non-vics only one has drawn below 40,000 at an average of 48,000. This is in two seasons of bottom half of the 8 h & A finishes. Essendon, losing just 6 H and A games in total over 2000 and 2001, had 2 of 8 games against non-vics drawing over 40,000.

you can't fairly compare these stats with richmond and carlton as these games are clearly the most exposed in off years which is pretty much every year for those two this decade

bottom line though is that, despite tens of thousands of reserved seat holders gauranteed the same dry seat over the last decade essenddon still fall significantly short here as well...

You could have included years 1998 and 1999. We drew 45,000 and 55,000 respectively against West Coast and 63,000 and 55,000 against the Swans in these 2 years. How does the inclusion of these 2 years change the overall standings!!??

Also, In 2003 and 2004 we locked the gates against the Lions and again in 2007 V West Coast. Against Interstate clubs, Essendon is right there with Collingwood in reality.

 

[dave10]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

geepers creepers! that's a bit harsh isn't it? i've put a lot of time and effort into this thread

I am with You Chaz on this point!

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

You could have included years 1998 and 1999. We drew 45,000 and 55,000 respectively against West Coast and 63,000 and 55,000 against the Swans in these 2 years. How does the inclusion of these 2 years change the overall standings!!??

Also, In 2003 and 2004 we locked the gates against the Lions and again in 2007 V West Coast. Against Interstate clubs, Essendon is right there with Collingwood in reality.

dave, thing about starting from 2000 is that since then we both have played in 5 finals series, two grand finals, you've got a 104-2-92 record to our 98-0-100. overall the bombers have had a comparable record and its also when the dome opened....

having said that the non-vic averages were closer than i thought they'd be...

i've obviously had a detailed debate with dave27 on the impact of the dome, heeps of supporting numbers.

conclusions reached were

1. much of the speculation of the "what we would of got if it was at the g" is very much over the top and not supported by the evidence from games where you actually played there

2. apart from in exceptional years (2000 and 2001), any restricted capacity from sell outs is almost certainly more than compensated by playing matches at the dome rather than a cold, wet, wind swept mcg....supporting stats are in this thread...

must admit that i have changed slightly from my opinion that carlton and richmond have the equal draw of essendon in an equal year as this hasn't been demonstrated yet historically

 

[yardenlavy]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

you guys are boring this is bay 13 i dont want to hear relevant comments

 

[blue harvest]

As an independent long term AFL supporter I declare CARLTON the second biggest Victorian club.

Can this thread please now be closed.