Who is the second biggest Victorian club. *MB Thread*

[mick]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

Richmond-75-80%. 27 years is like an eternity for Tiger fans, but it seems like 5 minutes to non Tiger fans. 2 years of finals in 27 years lol. That's a nightmare especially considering those 9th placed finishes with 13 wins and those spoons. There's plenty of tiger supporters aged between 35-45 who have had enough of continuous letdowns and they are waiting for us to make the finals again until they make the commitment again. It's a long time and there are plenty of supporters who won't be convinced from just one finals appearance eg 1995 and 2001. We need to make the finals in 2009 and 2010 to find our way out of the hole and be on a level playing field with the other 4 clubs. I think it's completely fair that we are given the next 2 years to make the finals and then we can fairly compair figures

You may be right, but I would think that the membership surge the Tigers received after signing Cuz indicates that the tiger faithfull will jump on at the slightest sign of improvement.

Are you seriously suggesting that the majority of Tiger fans are "bandwaggoners" who weren't convinced they were on the brink of success in 2001? In my mind 2002 was indicative of the true level of tiger support compared to other big Vic clubs-nearly 30% below Hawthorn despite equal on field results the previous year.

For those hawks people umm you just won a flag and you are just catching essendon which has not played finals for ages. If essendon or the pies won a flag they would smash 50k members!

Care to back that up with some facts rather than just having self-indulgent illusions of granduer.

Bombers had one of the most successful seasons of all time in 2001, the following year they only had 35K members, less than the preliminary finalists in Hawthorn.

Somehow you expect us to believe that the bombers would "smash" 50 thousand even though Teslra dome only provides about 35K of reasonable quality viewing seats.

In terms of profit, there is no doubt the Bombers are an extremely professional club, yet given that the Hawks have had over 7 million profit over the last two years it is fair to say Hawthorn have more than caught up to Essendons credible off field performance.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

The issue with that is the Tigers ie even when they made the prelim they werent that flash.

Our crowds were fairly good and would have been on the improve again, but we didnt make the finals the next year. The Hawks crowds were weaker in 2007
In 1999 we were pretty big and we didn't even make the finals

 

[Monkey King]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

haha sorry guys you might have once been the biggest club but hawks are the biggest right now...

Even dismissing the wagon jumper component (it goes jump off as well as on), do the Hawks actually qualify for being a Victorian club?

They do, after all, represent another state.

 

[Flukey!]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

As we know Collingwood are easily the biggest club in Victoria but who is the second biggest, Essendon or Carlton? Hard to split. Thoughts?

Based on what?
Members?
Revenue?
Profitability?

 

[hawker11]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

Even dismissing the wagon jumper component (it goes jump off as well as on), do the Hawks actually qualify for being a Victorian club?

They do, after all, represent another state.

The club is based in Waverley and play the majority of its home games at the MCG.

I expect the number of home games in Tas to decrease as the years go by with a better stadium deal at the MCG - to better service the majority of its members.

As much as it may pain you, we're here to stay.

 

[eldorado]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

Based on what?
Members?
Revenue?
Profitability?

Flags?
Attendances?
The 'vibe' ?


Based on whichever criteria allow you to place your club highest.

I think I may just be an old curmudgeon, but these threads bore me shitless. Listening to someone tell you it's a 'fact' that some club is 'bigger' than another. A) WTF does it mean and B) who gives a damn?

People like to factor in 'intangibles' "Hawthorn are at 95% of their maximum potential, Richmond are only at 72%, therefore..."

What toss.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

Flags?
Attendances?
The 'vibe' ?


Based on whichever criteria allow you to place your club highest.

I think I may just be an old curmudgeon, but these threads bore me shitless. Listening to someone tell you it's a 'fact' that some club is 'bigger' than another. A) WTF does it mean and B) who gives a damn?

People like to factor in 'intangibles' "Hawthorn are at 95% of their maximum potential, Richmond are only at 72%, therefore..."

What toss.

Richmond's crowds should increase by 5,000 this year due to Cousins. If we make the finals in 2009 and 2010, you'll see an increase in crowds similar to hawthorn from 2007-2008. By 2011 when we don't have to play at Carrarra and Skilled stadiums anymore and we play 8 blockbuster games a year and 10 Friday night games(eg Collingwood) we'll be averaging 55,000+ per game. Bring on the sleeping giant. We'll be making a new generation of young fans and Eddie will be pooing his pants by 2012 when we take over the Pies

 

[Burzum]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

1. Essendon
2. Hawthorn
3. Collingwood

 

[Monkey King]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

The club is based in Waverley and play the majority of its home games at the MCG.

I expect the number of home games in Tas to decrease as the years go by with a better stadium deal at the MCG - to better service the majority of its members.

As much as it may pain you, we're here to stay.

It doesn't pain me in the slightest... it was a serious question.

Hawthorn may have their base in Melbourne, but they do represent another state.

Does this interstate influence on membership and supporter distribution etc. disqualify them from being a pure Victorian club?

I think for now, it does.

 

[eldorado]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

I think people include, unconsciously, the factor of 'branding' into their equations.

It's the one that can be intuited most easily, but still hard to quantify.

Collingwood would quite clearly be the strongest 'brand' in the League, and you would tend to say Carlton and Essendon would be on the next rung. To try to separate them would depend on one's personal biases and value systems.

After that, it gets murkier...does branding change over time, or is it static? How long does it take for a name to achieve a certain cachet, and how long does it take to lose it?

When people talk 'biggest', how much important is the brand? How important are all the other factors, e.g. crowds, revenue, flags, etc.

It's all too Grade 2 for me.

You may as well ask "Who would win if Spiderman had a fight with a leopard?"

 

[mick]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

For the record, Spiderman would smash a leopard, his web thingy wouldn't allow the big cat to get close.

 

[hawker11]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

It doesn't pain me in the slightest... it was a serious question.

Hawthorn may have their base in Melbourne, but they do represent another state.

Does this interstate influence on membership and supporter distribution etc. disqualify them from being a pure Victorian club?

I think for now, it does.

They are sponsored by another state and play 4 games there a year as a part of that sponsorship.

Are Carlton representing another country by being sponsored by Malaysia and are they representing the Gold Coast by playing a home game there next year?

The clubs operations are based in Victoria, as is the 2008 premiership cup.

Hawthorn are a 'pure' Victorian club, but lets be honest you already know that.

 

[eldorado]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

For the record, Spiderman would smash a leopard, his web thingy wouldn't allow the big cat to get close.

But what if the leopard snuck up on Spiderman, and bit him on the throat? Could he get away?

EDIT: Shit, I forgot about his spidey senses tingling...he would have known the leopard was sneaking up on him.

Damn, this is hard...

 

[Hawkk]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

You can't compare clubs unless they are on an even playing field in regards to on field success. Here is what the 2008 crowd potential was for the top 5 clubs.

Hawthorn-95%+. They just won a premiership. Their supporter base is pretty much capacity.

Maybe, maybe not

I do think our crowds have a scope to improve with favourable draws ie. Return games against Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Richmond and Geelong like some other clubs are given

With a decent draw, our attendances have significant scope to increase IMO

 

[dave_27]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

Essendon-90%. The fans were spoilt rotten for 25 years and have only been down for only about 3 years. Most of their fans would be showing up to games still

4 years actually.

So what was Richmonds fans reason for NOT turning up when they were in the same predicament from the mid 80's after being spoilt rotten the previous 17 years with 5 flags?

Normally you cant compare era's but Richmond were based at the MCG not a suburban ground and went from averaging over 50k to home games in 1980 to averaging just 17k in 1987 at the MCG.

That is a massive decline even taking into account off field issues that may have disaffected fans.

 

[Wolfmother2]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

Its Collingwood with Essendon not far behind them (I have seen Collingwood in trouble financial before Eddie, I have never seen Essendon have an issue)

Then Carlton, Hawthorn and Richmond (they will go top four this year and their membership will explode next year)

and here is a link which has all the attendance to games etc

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/attendances?year=2001&t=A&h=A&s=T

Should help settle some of the crap porduced on here

 

[walhawk]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

Spiderman V a Lion would be a better battle.

The 'Big 4' are pretty even when you factor everything in (crowds, membership, off-field (profits) & on field).

Geelong next then Richmond.

 

[made from beer]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

i'd say melbourne

 

[The Donners]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

Memberships aside, haven't Essendon beaten Collingwood the last 4 years running in terms of supporters according to statistics... I'll search for the source at lunch, my boss will kick my arse for being on here now...

edit: Roy Morgan Research.

 

[MadDawg]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

The equation for biggest club is simple:

Earn the most money + have the most members = X

Therefore X = Hawthorn

 

[Flukey!]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

Flags?
Attendances?
The 'vibe' ?


Based on whichever criteria allow you to place your club highest.

I think I may just be an old curmudgeon, but these threads bore me shitless. Listening to someone tell you it's a 'fact' that some club is 'bigger' than another. A) WTF does it mean and B) who gives a damn?

People like to factor in 'intangibles' "Hawthorn are at 95% of their maximum potential, Richmond are only at 72%, therefore..."

What toss.

Summed up perfectly

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

The equation for biggest club is simple:

Earn the most money + have the most members = X

Therefore X = Hawthorn

we'll see this year, was collingwood on both counts last year (revenue wise, unless you mean profits). you might want to toss in highest attendances as well.....

wouldn't be suprised if hawthorn has more members than collingwood this year but would be shocked if they received close to the ammount of revenue we get from our membership

 

[gaelictiogar]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

There are opinions and there are facts

Here are some facts which are easily verifiable on any stat site..

1. Collingwood.
2. Whichever one of Essendon, Richmond and Carlton is consistently going best. It was richmond in the 70s. Essendon in the '90s etc.

3. Whichever of the 3 is second best year on year. EG Carlton in the decade to 2001.

4. Whoever of the 3 is worst. EG Richmond a lot of the time since the early '80s. Essendon in the 70s, Carlton 2002 to 2007 when they fell below Richmond.

5/6. Whichever of the rest are going well. EG Hawthorn and Geelong now.

 

[mick]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

Its Collingwood with Essendon not far behind them (I have seen Collingwood in trouble financial before Eddie, I have never seen Essendon have an issue)

Then Carlton, Hawthorn and Richmond (they will go top four this year and their membership will explode next year)

and here is a link which has all the attendance to games etc

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/attendances?year=2001&t=A&h=A&s=T

Should help settle some of the crap porduced on here

I am not convinced attendences are a true measure of a club's true support base. I will go to a game featuring Richmond because the atmosphere is tremendous, Richo is a demi-god and their fans are truly passionate. I enjoy watching Richmond lose even more that watching Richo have a blinder, this makes any Richmond "blockbuster" game a must for an AFL member.

If I am taking mates or family to a game I am more likely to do so against Collingwood than Geelong, simply because there is usually more atmosphere (R17 last year the exception).

The fixture also promotes Blockbuster games between Collingwood,Essendon, Carlton and Richmond and gives more return matches with some of the "bigger" Vic teams. I don't doubt that Collingwood has a legitimate army of fans, but the fixture helps them maintain this large supporter base irrespective of current form.

The big benificiaries of the lopsided draw are Collingwood and Essendon although Carlton and the Tigers are given a very advantageous run as well.

I don't doubt if Geelong and Hawthon had the same media exposure, fixturing opportunities and stadium arrangements as Collingwood then they would have extraordinary attendance figures.

To my mind membership in successful years is just as indicative of true support as membership numbers in lean years. That being said, when Richmond, Carlton and Hawthorn were all garbage on field (2005) all clubs attracted around the 30K mark with Carlton marginally in front of the Hawks while Richmond tailed the field with 28K-promising, but not overwhelming results from all clubs.

There is little genuine evidence to suggest that Carlton or Richmond have significantly more "supporters" than Hawthorn, and I cannot understand why supporters of these clubs are so convinced they are on the brink of regaining some of their former glory.

 

[The Donners]

Re: Who is the second biggest Victorian club.

The equation for biggest club is simple:

Earn the most money + have the most members = X

Therefore X = Hawthorn

That's funny, Essendon had more memberships than Hawthorn in '08 and that was on the back of finishing outside the 8 for the Dons and inside the 8 for the Hawks. You're only leading the race in '09, you have not won it.

As for your profit figures, $1.1m from the premiership victory and $3m+ from the Tasmanian Government, both of those will be hard to sustain, certainly if (but unlikely) Tasmania win the 18th license so bye bye Tasmanian Government handout and bye bye the estimated 10k Tasmanian Hawthorn supporters!

Essendon has the highest net assets of the Victorian clubs, despite a substantial reduction in market value of a large share portfolio (purely paper loss). Essendon have been financially successful since the beginning of time, Hawthorn only recently... I wouldn't get too carried away with your currently disposition... particularly while there's onfield success!