Banter Who will be better in 2025, Carlton or Collingwood? Part 3

[adammania9]

Williams and Saad? Let me know when you reach 2024.

"One Unknown" - Funny way of saying top 10 pick (and potential pick one fancy) in a superdraft. No mention of getting a 2nd back either. Talk about cherry-picking.

Smarter clubs are all about preparing for what lies ahead by going hard now with the draft before Tassie and all the acadmemy players arrive. But you stick with your 'we want players, not picks' mob. There is absolutely no chance it could backfire.

Superdraft haha. It's a deep draft with an unimpressive top end. Carlton had it right two days ago with 12 and 14. They're prized pick 3 wouldn't have gone top 5 last year. 2021 had four players that would go #1 this year, the last two drafts have at least three that would go #1 this year.

Smart clubs typically are the ones who regularly flirt with the ultimate success and sometimes taste it. One of our clubs does it, the other is the one you support.

Once again, Gold Coast and GWS occupied successive drafts and no side was seriously affected.

 

[Bale Dup]

I thought the thread title was about Carlton winning the "race" in 2024. Correct. Undeniable really. Thread title says it. Also based on ladder positions, the fact we at least played in a final and the other, the loser for 2024 between the 2, being Collingwood, well, they did NOT!

So based on the above it would be fair to say that Carlton would go in ahead of Collingwood at the start of the 25 season, unless something miraculous happens in the off season to change that position.
Still with me Magpie fans. I hope so.
So to bridge the gap, Collingwood replace their 27yo fairly average hbf in Noble, for a shiny upgrade, in Dan Houston

9

Dan Houston

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.0

5star

MG

289.2

4star

D

17.6

4star

K

11.6

4star

HB

6.0

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.4

4star

MG

319.9

5star

D

16.6

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.2

4star

M

7.0

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

279.8

5star

, also 27yo, so no real change there other than quality of player. Concede the upgrade there. Perryman. Decent pick up also, but is it enough to get ahead of the Blues in 25, let alone bridge the gap between finishing 9th or 10th or wherever they finished, to winning the flag, which they have openly admitted they are doing. They also got rid of 1 of their better 23/24yo (which you don't really have many of) in Joe Richards.

What else did ya get?

According to the AFL review of trade week, absolutely nothing except a bleak future, unless you think any future, high quality free agents will want to come to a bottom 8 side, coz ya won't have any draft capital at all either.

Anyway, I digress.

Are the above changes enough to lift the lowly Collingwood above Carlton in 2025? Hmm. Wouldn't bet on it and I am a gambling man

So, ideally, Carlton wouldn't really need to do much, other than keep their multiple game winners on the park at the same time, maybe add a top3 generational young mid, to fit in with our other young star mids (as opposed to Collingwood mids who are all, bar the Daicos boys, really ready for retirement - Pendles 37 Sidebottom 34, Mitchell 32 Crisp 31 JDG 29. And that's just the midfield. Sorry, I forgot about the likes of Jack Bytel, Ed Allan, wil Parker, Sullivan etc, who will take over) Good luck with that.
I won't mention the forward line either in Mihocek 32, Elliott 32, Cox 34, McStay on the park (not) 30.
But wait. There's more! They still have in their arsenal, just waiting to use these guns when their current guns expire. The likes of
Harvey Harrison, Reef McInnes, Ned Long, Harry Demattia, Tew Jiath, Jakob Ryan, Josh Eyre,
Josh Carmichael. Let's not also forget the likes of Ash Johnson who has played as many games as he is old (27). Frampton 27yo, played 58games. Freddie Krueger 25yo played 15 games. All those stars the Maggie's have , keeping these gems waiting in the wings. They must have been mature aged recruits. Well get use to em, coz that's all you'll be getting in the future and of the same quality.

On SM-G980F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Crankyhawk]

SEN just gave Austin an A+ and named him king of trade week, where as the Pies haven't realised that list management means the future as well, one A grader doesn't make much difference.

Not the flex you think. They also gave hawks a D+ for last year

 

[NetworkNerd]

I thought the thread title was about Carlton winning the "race" in 2024. Correct. Undeniable really. Thread title says it. Also based on ladder positions, the fact we at least played in a final and the other, the loser for 2024 between the 2, being Collingwood, well, they did NOT!

So based on the above it would be fair to say that Carlton would go in ahead of Collingwood at the start of the 25 season, unless something miraculous happens in the off season to change that position.
Still with me Magpie fans. I hope so.
So to bridge the gap, Collingwood replace their 27yo fairly average hbf in Noble, for a shiny upgrade, in Dan Houston, also 27yo, so no real change there other than quality of player. Concede the upgrade there. Perryman. Decent pick up also, but is it enough to get ahead of the Blues in 25, let alone bridge the gap between finishing 9th or 10th or wherever they finished, to winning the flag, which they have openly admitted they are doing. They also got rid of 1 of their better 23/24yo (which you don't really have many of) in Joe Richards.

What else did ya get?

According to the AFL review of trade week, absolutely nothing except a bleak future, unless you think any future, high quality free agents will want to come to a bottom 8 side, coz ya won't have any draft capital at all either.

Anyway, I digress.

Are the above changes enough to lift the lowly Collingwood above Carlton in 2025? Hmm. Wouldn't bet on it and I am a gambling man

So, ideally, Carlton wouldn't really need to do much, other than keep their multiple game winners on the park at the same time, maybe add a top3 generational young mid, to fit in with our other young star mids (as opposed to Collingwood mids who are all, bar the Daicos boys, really ready for retirement - Pendles 37 Sidebottom 34, Mitchell 32 Crisp 31 JDG 29. And that's just the midfield. Sorry, I forgot about the likes of Jack Bytel, Ed Allan, wil Parker, Sullivan etc, who will take over) Good luck with that.
I won't mention the forward line either in Mihocek 32, Elliott 32, Cox 34, McStay on the park (not) 30.
But wait. There's more! They still have in their arsenal, just waiting to use these guns when their current guns expire. The likes of
Harvey Harrison, Reef McInnes, Ned Long, Harry Demattia, Tew Jiath, Jakob Ryan, Josh Eyre,
Josh Carmichael. Let's not also forget the likes of Ash Johnson who has played as many games as he is old (27). Frampton 27yo, played 58games. Freddie Krueger 25yo played 15 games. All those stars the Maggie's have , keeping these gems waiting in the wings. They must have been mature aged recruits. Well get use to em, coz that's all you'll be getting in the future and of the same quality.

On SM-G980F using BigFooty.com mobile app

On paper you are 100% correct. However culture/coaching comes into play and imo the way Kennedy left the club does not smell too good.

But if you get a gun kid with pick 3 with pace and nous around goal you'll be fine.

 

[No SPIN]

The sad thing is that is all you have to hang your hat on. That flukey flag.

Here is the reality dear. Only one team can win it every year. Most teams are going to have droughts. But eventually they'll come to an end and new ones come about.

Try all you like. But if you think I envy your mob, think again. 3 times in around 63 years. Pretty sad really. I personally am wanting more than that myself.

While you’ve been winning wooden spoons in the last 20 years we’ve been winning flags.
So you must prefer spoons - LOL

 

[No SPIN]

You had a player who was off his chops associating with a known convicted felon waving a gun outside of a car over Bolte Bridge. On top of DeGoey... ok, let's talk standards shall we ?

Standards ? Carlton are the Cheat Champs having been hit with the AFL’s heaviest penalties for repeated Cap breaches.

 

[augie]

The sad thing is that is all you have to hang your hat on. That flukey flag.

Here is the reality dear. Only one team can win it every year. Most teams are going to have droughts. But eventually they'll come to an end and new ones come about.

Try all you like. But if you think I envy your mob, think again. 3 times in around 63 years. Pretty sad really. I personally am wanting more than that myself.

Of course you want more than that. But you have to settle for what you've got. Hope you old boys enjoy the 30 year anniversary celebrations next year.

 

[South of the Yarra]

The sad thing is that is all you have to hang your hat on. That flukey flag.

Here is the reality dear. Only one team can win it every year. Most teams are going to have droughts. But eventually they'll come to an end and new ones come about.

Try all you like. But if you think I envy your mob, think again. 3 times in around 63 years. Pretty sad really. I personally am wanting more than that myself.

You seem very very stressed about Collingwood. I am pretty content with two flags in 14 years in an 18-team comp.

 

[Fadge]

Ah... yes.

Everything has a start and an end.
That is how life works bub.

Extremely unlucky? Nah. Just not good enough. But sure, whatever feeds your delusion.

So we were 'just good enough' when we beat St. Kilda in 2010 and Brisbane in 2023, and 'just not good enough' when we had near misses in 2002, 2007, 2011, 2018, 2019 and 2022?

If Carlton ever manage to contend for premierships again, you'll realise luck has a LOT to play in finals results.

But I do love your narrative that it's pure fluke when we win flags, and we're simply not good enough when we don't...

 

[Fadge]

Owies would have won your goalkicking this year.

He wouldn't have played enough games to do so.

 

[Fadge]

You had a player who was off his chops associating with a known convicted felon waving a gun outside of a car over Bolte Bridge. On top of DeGoey... ok, let's talk standards shall we ?

You really want to go back to past times and talk character of our clubs' footballers?

 

[HBFlanker]

Carlton will be better.

Still enormous holes in Collingwoods list.

 

[doppleganger]

You really want to go back to past times and talk character of our clubs' footballers?

Carlton fans cant help themselves, consistently drawn to the past...cant blame em.

Pretend the last quarter of a century aint happened, much better to be stuck in the 90s...Carlton still playing at Optus Oval and are a feared and respected club in the competition.

Happier times for crusty old Baggers.

 

[carlton_99]

Carlton fans cant help themselves, consistently drawn to the past...cant blame em.

Pretend the last quarter of a century aint happened, much better to be stuck in the 90s...Carlton still playing at Optus Oval and are a feared and respected club in the competition.

Happier times for crusty old Baggers.

The past you say...

While you’ve been winning wooden spoons in the last 20 years we’ve been winning flags.
So must prefer spoons - LOL

 

[No SPIN]

Carlton will be better.

Still enormous holes in Collingwoods list.

Last time I checked Carlton had one decent backman.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

You seem very very stressed about Collingwood. I am pretty content with two flags in 14 years in an 18-team comp.

1 fluked flag in an 18-team competition.

Another in a 16-team competition that if only better rules were in place like extra time, would have seen saints with their 2nd premiership.

I mean sure, celebrate the glory. You'd be silly not to. But your team isn't the benchmark you like to think it is.

 

[No SPIN]

1 fluked flag in an 18-team competition.

Another in a 16-team competition that if only better rules were in place like extra time, would have seen saints with their 2nd premiership.

I mean sure, celebrate the glory. You'd be silly not to. But your team isn't the benchmark you like to think it is.

At least we aren’t the benchmark for Wooden spoons - 5 in just over 20 years is world record pace.
As for flukey flags no team was better performed over 2022/23 - so only a fool would say the flag was a fluke.

 

[adammania9]

I thought the thread title was about Carlton winning the "race" in 2024. Correct. Undeniable really. Thread title says it. Also based on ladder positions, the fact we at least played in a final and the other, the loser for 2024 between the 2, being Collingwood, well, they did NOT!

So based on the above it would be fair to say that Carlton would go in ahead of Collingwood at the start of the 25 season, unless something miraculous happens in the off season to change that position.
Still with me Magpie fans. I hope so.
So to bridge the gap, Collingwood replace their 27yo fairly average hbf in Noble, for a shiny upgrade, in Dan Houston, also 27yo, so no real change there other than quality of player. Concede the upgrade there. Perryman. Decent pick up also, but is it enough to get ahead of the Blues in 25, let alone bridge the gap between finishing 9th or 10th or wherever they finished, to winning the flag, which they have openly admitted they are doing. They also got rid of 1 of their better 23/24yo (which you don't really have many of) in Joe Richards.

What else did ya get?

According to the AFL review of trade week, absolutely nothing except a bleak future, unless you think any future, high quality free agents will want to come to a bottom 8 side, coz ya won't have any draft capital at all either.

Anyway, I digress.

Are the above changes enough to lift the lowly Collingwood above Carlton in 2025? Hmm. Wouldn't bet on it and I am a gambling man

So, ideally, Carlton wouldn't really need to do much, other than keep their multiple game winners on the park at the same time, maybe add a top3 generational young mid, to fit in with our other young star mids (as opposed to Collingwood mids who are all, bar the Daicos boys, really ready for retirement - Pendles 37 Sidebottom 34, Mitchell 32 Crisp 31 JDG 29. And that's just the midfield. Sorry, I forgot about the likes of Jack Bytel, Ed Allan, wil Parker, Sullivan etc, who will take over) Good luck with that.
I won't mention the forward line either in Mihocek 32, Elliott 32, Cox 34, McStay on the park (not) 30.
But wait. There's more! They still have in their arsenal, just waiting to use these guns when their current guns expire. The likes of
Harvey Harrison, Reef McInnes, Ned Long, Harry Demattia, Tew Jiath, Jakob Ryan, Josh Eyre,
Josh Carmichael. Let's not also forget the likes of Ash Johnson who has played as many games as he is old (27). Frampton 27yo, played 58games. Freddie Krueger 25yo played 15 games. All those stars the Maggie's have , keeping these gems waiting in the wings. They must have been mature aged recruits. Well get use to em, coz that's all you'll be getting in the future and of the same quality.

On SM-G980F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Collingwood’s trade additions to be disregarded because they are only improvements in player ability, meanwhile Carlton’s team is destined for improvement despite adding a 32 year old Haynes and shedding depth in midfield and their third top goal kicker.

AFL articles believe Collingwood have a bleak future and cannot salute in September, very comparable to what was said a few years ago. Since then Collingwood has added a premiership whilst several younger, “better” teams have been left wanting.

All of Collingwood’s youngsters are duds but Lord, Binns, Motlop and the Camporeale twins who are edging closer and close to the rookie draft with every passing week on top of Haynes are going to elevate Carlton from 6% above Collingwood on the ladder to genuine premiership contenders.

Being good for Carlton is as simple as getting their players on the park consistently, but somehow the same does not apply for Collingwood, who lost more games from key players than Carlton did.

The goal in footy is to be good, not young. Collingwood clearly have added upgrades to what they have, whilst Carlton are banking on the next Sheezel or Daicos, despite the fact they are a very rare exception and not the rule.

 

[South of the Yarra]

1 fluked flag in an 18-team competition.

Another in a 16-team competition that if only better rules were in place like extra time, would have seen saints with their 2nd premiership.

I mean sure, celebrate the glory. You'd be silly not to. But your team isn't the benchmark you like to think it is.

Thats so sweet. Your hurt is deep. It is cutting at you. The fact you go down the 'fluke' line shows just how much you are hurting. You are trying to rationalise it. Its ok. I understand your pain, it has been driven by your complete lack of success in the modern era. This pain translates into jealousy and envy and the need to look for excuses when the team you despise succeeds whilst you flounder.

 

[Worm4]

You really want to go back to past times and talk character of our clubs' footballers?

So , no need to discuss old times then considering the salary cap breaches from 23 years ago were brought up by a pie poster ?

 

[carlton_99]

So , no need to discuss old times then considering the salary cap breaches from 23 years ago were brought up by a pie poster ?

"Do as I say not as I do"

 

[Robertio]

Carlton fans cant help themselves, consistently drawn to the past...cant blame em.

Pretend the last quarter of a century aint happened, much better to be stuck in the 90s...Carlton still playing at Optus Oval and are a feared and respected club in the competition.

Happier times for crusty old Baggers.

Only as good as your last season mate.

 

[Robertio]

Last time I checked Carlton had one decent backman.

We still made finals though.

 

[Robertio]

Collingwood’s trade additions to be disregarded because they are only improvements in player ability, meanwhile Carlton’s team is destined for improvement despite adding a 32 year old Haynes and shedding depth in midfield and their third top goal kicker.

AFL articles believe Collingwood have a bleak future and cannot salute in September, very comparable to what was said a few years ago. Since then Collingwood has added a premiership whilst several younger, “better” teams have been left wanting.

All of Collingwood’s youngsters are duds but Lord, Binns, Motlop and the Camporeale twins who are edging closer and close to the rookie draft with every passing week on top of Haynes are going to elevate Carlton from 6% above Collingwood on the ladder to genuine premiership contenders.

Being good for Carlton is as simple as getting their players on the park consistently, but somehow the same does not apply for Collingwood, who lost more games from key players than Carlton did.

The goal in footy is to be good, not young. Collingwood clearly have added upgrades to what they have, whilst Carlton are banking on the next Sheezel or Daicos, despite the fact they are a very rare exception and not the rule.

Pies might be able to improve enough to make the 8 then.

 

[augie]

1 fluked flag in an 18-team competition.

Another in a 16-team competition that if only better rules were in place like extra time, would have seen saints with their 2nd premiership.

I mean sure, celebrate the glory. You'd be silly not to. But your team isn't the benchmark you like to think it is.

Don't forget we also fluked 1990. If the AFL had changed the rules we would have played extra time and either lost to WC or had to face an Essendon that hadn't had 3 weeks off. I'm actually not sure we've legitimately won a flag since the 1950s.
Is it okay if I still celebrate those flags? I've really enjoyed them, while also enjoying your team's decades of failure.