Who will be our first-choice FF in 2009?

[PRANKSTER666]

Or maybe, like most teams, they have more than one key defender.

Check mate.

Who could've seen that coming?

Most teams are lucky to have two good defenders and they need to cover Kennedy, Hansen and Mckinley...

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Hansen has a history of injuries and I think a smaller workload closer to goals would be beneficial in keeping him on the park.

But would it be beneficial to the team, given he's never really demonstrated the attributes of a productive FF?

Kennedy showed enough last year between injuries to suggest he can play at CHF this year.

He showed that he's heading in the right direction.

I don't think it's a given that he's now cut-and-dried as our best option in that position.

I think there are a lot of dominoes to fall before we can identify our best forward six with any real conviction.

But one conclusion I am prepared to draw is that McKinley is the best bet as our go-to guy I50.

How many games did you goto last year?

None.

Does that mean you're right?

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Most teams are lucky to have two good defenders and they need to cover Kennedy, Hansen and Mckinley...

Firstly, you're talking about Kennedy like he's already an established gun.

Secondly, Hansen has never been a major threat close to goals.

Thirdly, most teams have at least three tall defenders.

Fourthly, even if you think those three talls would stretch defences, how does that demonstrate that Hansen should play at FF? Surely Hansen at CHF, Kennedy in a FP and McKinley at FF would have the same effect. Or would all those sides somehow be better equipped to cover our talls in that configuration?

 

[PRANKSTER666]

But one conclusion I am prepared to draw is that McKinley is the best bet as our go-to guy I50.

Don't get me wrong I really like Mckinley but IMO he is still too young and too small to be left out to dry in the key forward position. Could really dent his confidence by giving him no support up forward.

I reiterate that I am not 100% sold on Hansen but somebody needs to play FF other than Mckinley this year to allow him to develop at his own pace.

You talk about Kennedy and Brown being still green but Mckinley has played a whopping 19 games (18 on 2008). Lets not get too excited...

Perhaps watching highlight packages on your mobile doesn't put you in the best position to comment or dispense opinions?

 

[PRANKSTER666]

Firstly, you're talking about Kennedy like he's already an established gun.

Secondly, Hansen has never been a major threat close to goals.

Thirdly, most teams have at least three tall defenders.

Fourthly, even if you think those three talls would stretch defences, how does that demonstrate that Hansen should play at FF? Surely Hansen at CHF, Kennedy in a FP and McKinley at FF would have the same effect. Or would all those sides somehow be better equipped to cover our talls in that configuration?

Kennedy in a FP, give me a break. What a complete waste, he is a super athlete.

You also talk as if Mckinley was an established gun. He had a great year in 08 but put him at FF with no support and there is a good chance he will go backwards this year.

 

[Shtav]

I think we play Hunter out of the square. Will prob start him at CHB and see how Wilkes goes but if we get experience down there and composure

Wirra, Hunter, Mckinley
Lecca, Kennedy/Hansen, Waters or the like,

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Don't get me wrong I really like Mckinley but IMO he is still too young and too small to be left out to dry in the key forward position. Could really dent his confidence by giving him no support up forward.

Since when does playing him at FF equate to "leaving him out to dry" and "giving him no support"?

He went pretty well last year, and I would expect him to have a few more mates from 2009 onwards.

You talk about Kennedy and Brown being still green but Mckinley has played a whopping 19 games (18 on 2008). Lets not get too excited....

Er, yeah - so McKinley has played more games for WC than Brown and Kennedy combined.

In that time, he managed to top our goal-scoring in a season when we were shit. In his first full season.

That is cause for excitement. And, even if we are going out of our way to keep a lid on it, he's still our best option at FF. You can be as circumspect as you like - he's still our best option in that role.

Perhaps watching highlight packages on your mobile doesn't put you in the best position to comment or dispense opinions?

Right, so you're correct, because I've been in London all year.

Why bother making all these arguments if you're just going to fall back on that? Why bother trying to build a case if your argument eventually boils down to me being overseas?

For the record, they have TVs over here.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Kennedy in a FP, give me a break. What a complete waste, he is a super athlete.

Did you not catch the rhetorical point that I was making here?

I wasn't actually arguing that Kennedy should play in a FP.

I reckon that would be pretty obvious to anyone who wasn't trying to overlook it.

You also talk as if Mckinley was an established gun.

I talk about him as though he's our most dangerous marking forward.

Which he is.

He had a great year in 08 but put him at FF with no support and there is a good chance he will go backwards this year.

Why is it a given that he will have "no support"?

Why do you keep dropping that phrase as though it's part of a coherent argument?

And, incidentally, how much support did he have in 2008?

 

[PRANKSTER666]

I will let you have the last say or we could be here all week arguing.

You are entitled to your opinion as am I.

As I posted in another thread this is my take on our team/list. If you want to rip it to shreds go ahead but at least put your list up there for everyone to judge.


B A.SELWOOD GLASS WILKES

HB EMBLEY HUNTER B. JONES

C STAKER PRIDDIS HURN

HF LECRAS KENNEDY EBERT

F WIRRAPANDA HANSEN MCKINLEY

FOLL COX KERR MASTEN

INT BROWN LYNCH SCHOFIELD BUTLER

EMG STENGLEIN WATERS ROSA

A LIST
NICNAT
SWIFT
SHUEY
SMITH
S.SELWOOD
MACKENZIE
NOTTE
DAVIS

B LIST
SEABY
NICOSKI
HOULIHAN
J JONES
SPANGHER
FLETCHER
MCGINNITY
MCNAMARA

B list needs to improve to have a future at WCE.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

You are entitled to your opinion as am I.

Sure.

And those opinions are only as worthy as the arguments offered in support.

As I posted in another thread this is my take on our team/list. If you want to rip it to shreds go ahead but at least put your list up there for everyone to judge.

I have no interest in debating such a general point.

I'm only arguing that McKinley is our best best at FF.

 

[beatlesmith]

Injuries and preparation aside, my ideal combinaton would be;

HF: Lecras--Kennedy--Waters/ebert/nicoski
F: Wirrapanda--Brown--Mckinley

Kennedy leading up the ground, Brown staying close to the goalsquare, using his strength one on one (which will require him to work on his body on body skills to deal with FB's like scarlett) and mckinley leading in to the space between brown and kennedy. Lecras drifting in from the flank and interchanging with mckinley between the FP and the midfield. Resting mid who is strong over-head and a good tackler (like waters) providing defensive pressure.
Wirra playing as a dedicated crumber, with lecras moving in to the crumbing role when wirra is benched or needed down back. Even though lecras is probably better used in a midfield or leading role, he is probably our 2nd best crumber.
Naitanui, seaby, staker and lynch to rotate through the KPP slots.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Injuries and preparation aside, my ideal combinaton would be;

HF: Lecras--Kennedy--Waters/ebert/nicoski
F: Wirrapanda--Brown--Mckinley

I think it might be the "ideal" combination at the end of the year if everything goes perfectly between now and then.

If that is our first-choice set-up come R22, then it will have been a very productive year.

But I'm not sure that's the combination that would give us the best chance of winning in R1.

 

[Cuzz09]

I thought Hunter was alright at FF during 2008 just his dodgy kicking at goal stuffed it up.

The Game Vs Sydney he could have kicked 7.

 

[Prolix]

Hunter has been tried at FF full time and it hasn't really worked. His kicking for goal seems to have gone off too.

I'm not entirely sure about that. Watching the game against Sydney he was making some good leads and getting a lot of shots in the 30-40m range. His kicking was all that stopped him from getting 3-4 goals instead of 1 that night and that could easily have been because we rushed him back from a knee injury.

That said, it was against Sydney and he generally cuts them to pieces when he goes forward. I also remember him playing FF fulltime for a few games during the 2006 or 2007 season and he was fairly unproductive. I didn't think then that he should play FF but I'd like to see him given another shot, fully fit, next season at some point. Possibly against Sydney again

 

[beatlesmith]

I think it might be the "ideal" combination at the end of the year if everything goes perfectly between now and then.

If that is our first-choice set-up come R22, then it will have been a very productive year.

But I'm not sure that's the combination that would give us the best chance of winning in R1.

probably, a forward line of:
HF: Lecras--Lynch--Waters/Ebert/Nicoski
F:Wirrapanda--Mckinley--Seaby
...at the start of the year.
It's hard to accurately assess without pre-season form.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

It'll probably depend on our gameplan. Will we be moving the ball better, or will we need somebody going after contested overhead marks?

Based on physical attributes and very limited in-game evidence, I think Brown would be the type of guy you revolve a forward-line around a lot like Fevola. Give him space and let him wrestle with the full-back. Kennedy is more likely to take a contested mark overhead from a stray ball inside 50. With the one-on-one style of game we play, I think that makes Kennedy a more viable option at this stage.

Both have good tanks - so I don't think that's really a huge consideration. Even at FF having a big tank is going to be useful. It's not a waste having Kennedy down there if Brown is up the ground (or vice versa).

I'd probably prefer to see Brown down there, but I'm really not fussed. There will be a lot of trial-and-error and in-game rotation, and Lynch will have first dibs anyway.

 

[Makka]

I'd like to see Brown down at FF but it depends on where he's at with his game. He's sat out the past year so you never know. If Kennedy is holding down CHF then perhaps even Hansen could try a stint there at FF? There's a lot of options at the moment so I guess we're just gonna have to wait and see.

 

[bodazoka]

Firstly, you're talking about Kennedy like he's already an established gun.

Secondly, Hansen has never been a major threat close to goals.

Thirdly, most teams have at least three tall defenders.

Fourthly, even if you think those three talls would stretch defences, how does that demonstrate that Hansen should play at FF? Surely Hansen at CHF, Kennedy in a FP and McKinley at FF would have the same effect. Or would all those sides somehow be better equipped to cover our talls in that configuration?

Your nit picking, people have all ready established that on paper positioning means bugger all, so if named at FF or FP McKinley will still play his role in the 50 as our go too guy. However if we dont have a tall down there to help him out he will be flogged everytime 1v1 on a scarlett.

Every team has more than 1 tall defender, our CHF is tall and talented so that takes one, they will put there best tall on our FF so that is two. 3 very good tall defenders is not the norm for most teams so we can assume that a side has 3 tall defenders but not 3 great ones.

McKinley and a combination of (Hansen, Brown, Lynch ect..) both in the goal square is better than McKinley vs Scarlett one on one in the goal square. Whatever position McKinley is named he will play the same way but he needs help when he is matched up on someone taller and fitter.

 

[daveymak]

i reckon this forward line would be deadly

HF Embley Brown/Lynch Staker/Nicoski
FF Wirrpanda Kennedy Mckinley/LeCras

i also think that with a lot less injuries embley will get played on the wing or on the flank again where he can be very damaging

 

[Shadow Minister]

i also think that with a lot less injuries embley will get played on the wing or on the flank again where he can be very damaging

Embley definately needs to be more attacking. As solid as he was last year I feel he was wasted running around in the backline by himself taking uncontested marks from short kicks. Get him up the ground into attacking positions

Not sure who will be our designated full forward but I think Lynch will be given first crack. His marking has improved and if his kicking has improved from last year he will be a solid contributer.

McKinley can play in the FP position but still be our main target inside 50 much like Phil Matera was a few years back.

Therefore forward line in my opinion should be;
FF McKinley Lynch Wirrpanda (or other crumber)
HF Ebert/Embley Kennedy/Brown Lecras

 

[daveymak]

yeah totally agree embers did quite well back there but it was only cos half our side was out, his natural attacking game is definately suited more to wing/flank, it will be good to see him back in those roles this year. also like your forward line mate, we have so many options up there for this year will be very exciting to see the combinations they come up with all over the ground in '09

 

[Cuzz09]

Seaby does well when he rests up forward. Often kicks 1 or 2 in a game.

Seaby for FF.

Seaby Coleman medallist 2009 with 127.13

Wooo! Seaby!

But yeah Seaby is a footy man.

 

[fryzie]

Lets face it, we're not winning any premierships this year so now is the time to experiment with positioning. If we're happy with our backline definately give Mitch Brown a crack at full forward, from all reports he's training like he never had knee surgery. Kills the beep test and is a monster, big bodied and great hands, exactly what a full forward shoud be.

Pockets are a lock with McKinley and I'd assume Wirrapunda this year as our crumber. CHF will most likely be Kennedy/Hansen/Hunter and hopefully Kennedy turns out to be a gun CHF. Flankers obviously LeCras and a rotation through the midfield or whichever of Kennedy/Hansen/Hunter isn't playing at CHF.

This season will be a bit of trial and error - hopefully we get a spearhead that links up well and kicks bags of goals. Don't forget once Naita starts playing he or Cox will rest up forward a bit, giving matchup nightmares to opposition coaches.

I'd love to see:

LeCras Kennedy Hunter
Wirrapunda Brown McKinley

But as it's been mentioned Kennedy and Brown are unproven - but hopefully they'll link up solidly and play those positions well

 

[Shadow Minister]

Seaby does well when he rests up forward. Often kicks 1 or 2 in a game.

Seaby for FF.

That is not actually a bad suggestion for parts of the game as when he is given a chance up forward (instead of being on the bench) and has some confidence he can take a good overhead mark and convert with accuracy. He will no doubt have chances with Lynch, Hurn and Nicoski bombing it to 20m in front of goal.

I thought Seaby was going well in the preseason but then dropped away badly. Hopefully this year when Cox is in the ruck he can take a few marks from the square and get some confidence up.

Definately need a crumber to put defensive pressure on his opponent tho when the ball hits the ground as I have seen him exposed badly on the rebound.

 

[bodazoka]

Seaby @ FF..... id rather Lynch back.