Who will improve most under Roos?

[stretcharmstrong]

Last man left on Neeld Island. Is he a relative?

Nope, absolutely no connection to him at all.

I just have a big heart





Truthfully, I hold the players mostly responsible.

 

[Deefolt]

pick between the 40s-60s, but what another club would pay doesnt represent a players worth

Not many teams would trade a top 10 pick for jack watts but we wouldnt accept anything less

fact is, 40-60 says what hes worth, if hes one of the best 1 on 1 players in the league as some have suggested 40-60 wouldnt be his market price, this is fact, such bullshit some people pretend he is worth... assuming family members

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Nope, absolutely no connection to him at all.

I just have a big heart





Truthfully, I hold the players mostly responsible.

I doubt the players conspired to be 75% worse than Baileyball. He didn't have a redeeming quality other than mean cliche' dispensing. He's up there with Gabriel Szondy, Gillies and David Cockatoo Collins as most out of his depth in human history.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

Meh, as I said, I didn't know him personally and find it very hard to make such strong judgements based on media representations and general gossip.

I realise I am well and truly in the minority here.

 

[Deefolt]

Was never neelds fault end of the day, if he had coached someone before with success, he wouldnt have been sacked end of the day

 

[Theseventhhamster]

That's cool I'd rather pretend he never existed but at least I had a chance to pot Gillies and Szondy out of this. Not DCC's fault his mum guilted us into taking him.

 

[Black Dynamite]

Neeld was a disaster for our club but it wasn't really a disaster completely of his own making.
He was never given all the tools a coach needs to be successful, poor recruiting, lack of development from previous coaches, no leadership and a fractured club on field and off field and that is probably just scratching the surface.
He did not help the situation and proved to be divisive on an already divided group who had no confidence in themselves, their team mates or the club.
Roos has a lot of healing to do but I expect most of the playing group to improve significantly over the next 2 seasons not only through the quality of the coach and his game plan but also because the club seems to be much better sorted off field as well.

 

[autocol]

be nice if you had an answer though

And it would be nice if you bothered to consult any factual data before making bold claims, but it seems we can't all have what we want.

 

[AFL is Number One]

Jimmy The Toumpas

 

[SPC 98]

Jimmy The Toumpas

He will be outstanding next year.. young Toump

 

[Deefolt]

And it would be nice if you bothered to consult any factual data before making bold claims, but it seems we can't all have what we want.

means you are full of it, he isnt what you say he is, we wouldnt get jack for him because at the end of the day hes not in fact the best contested 1v1 player in the league or anywhere close

 

[mrmonkey]

I was in denial early 2012 on the Neeld island. I thought it was possible to survive, I kept believing that I will find some fresh water and decent food source. After a long exploration I discovered it was a desert island. I gave up and made a break early 2013 and this new island looks a lot more promising.

 

[thetank]

What's with all the apologetics for Neeld? As if all the excuses were the difference between Melbourne winning and losing.

You all saw the (lack of) game day strategy, of being blown out in 5 minutes. That is from poor coaching and nothing else. You all saw how Melbourne was having its ass handed to it for 3 quarters by 19 year olds in the first GWS match, before the biggest miracle since Steve Bradbury gave Neeld a stay of execution.

Better off-field resources may have resulted in more "honourable" defeats (say, 5 goals on average). When Neeld was sacked, Melbourne had a for-against percentage of 49.8%, worse than GWS despite GWS not even having won a single game at that time. Lost by an average of almost 13 goals a game (77.1ppg) - ie. Melbourne would have lost on average even if it had a 12 goal headstart. Ridiculous.

It seriously got to the stage where a loss by 9 goals or less was considered a good result.

 

[autocol]

means you are full of it, he isnt what you say he is, we wouldnt get jack for him because at the end of the day hes not in fact the best contested 1v1 player in the league or anywhere close

Stats can't give us an objective truth about a subjective question, but they certainly provide one basis upon which subjective opinion can be formed. If he was "nowhere close" to being the best player in the league at winning 1 on 1 contests, it seems rather unlikely that he would lead the league in that statistic, which is an objective fact.

You might think I'm full of it, but then you regularly use "lol" in a sentence, so I'm struggling to care what you think.

 

[deeman87]

Stats can't give us an objective truth about a subjective question, but they certainly provide one basis upon which subjective opinion can be formed. If he was "nowhere close" to being the best player in the league at winning 1 on 1 contests, it seems rather unlikely that he would lead the league in that statistic, which is an objective fact.

You might think I'm full of it, but then you regularly use "lol" in a sentence, so I'm struggling to care what you think.

Sample size though. This statistic that you keep going on about shows only 32 contests all year. That's just under 1.5 contests a game that Dunn isn't losing. Generally when using statistics we'd like a much bigger sample size than 32 in pretty much anything. Couple that with the fact that Dunn is almost always matched up against the oppositions 4th or 5th best forward and i think it's fair to say you're reading too much into it. Not saying Lynden is awful but for you to argue he's the best one on one player in the league is absolutely ridiculous unless you were joking?

 

[autocol]

Sample size though.

Fair point. It's not the only stat I've looked at though. I've had a long argument on Demonland with someone who claimed that Lynden Dunn was the worst footballer ever, and successfully demonstrated that, statistically, he's on par or better than every member of the Hawks back six other than Birchall.

That doesn't mean he's a better player than all of them from a subjective point of view (I doubt he's capable of a Brian Lake-like performance in a Grand Final for example, though I have no evidence to support that view, it's just a hunch), but it does make it difficult to argue that he's totally rubbish. Dropped into the Hawks back six this year, he would have held his spot and won a premiership, which would have shut the critics up. He's a victim of being a defender in the worst team in the league.

I take it you think he's always on dud opposition, which would help "pad" his stats... Except that he absolutely towelled up Chris Judd, if you'll recall...

 

[Topkent]

Fair point. It's not the only stat I've looked at though. I've had a long argument on Demonland with someone who claimed that Lynden Dunn was the worst footballer ever, and successfully demonstrated that, statistically, he's on par or better than every member of the Hawks back six other than Birchall.

That doesn't mean he's a better player than all of them from a subjective point of view (I doubt he's capable of a Brian Lake-like performance in a Grand Final for example, though I have no evidence to support that view, it's just a hunch), but it does make it difficult to argue that he's totally rubbish. Dropped into the Hawks back six this year, he would have held his spot and won a premiership, which would have shut the critics up. He's a victim of being a defender in the worst team in the league.

I take it you think he's always on dud opposition, which would help "pad" his stats... Except that he absolutely towelled up Chris Judd, if you'll recall...

He clearly isn't the best one on player in the league but he is one of the few players under neeld who you could give a task an he would complete it , people think the sun shines out of jack grimes ass but I think he makes more mistakes than Dunn but its not popular to bash him , I for one see him as a member of the best 22

 

[CTHORANGE]

Neeld was a disaster for our club but it wasn't really a disaster completely of his own making.
He was never given all the tools a coach needs to be successful, poor recruiting, lack of development from previous coaches, no leadership and a fractured club on field and off field and that is probably just scratching the surface.
He did not help the situation and proved to be divisive on an already divided group who had no confidence in themselves, their team mates or the club.
Roos has a lot of healing to do but I expect most of the playing group to improve significantly over the next 2 seasons not only through the quality of the coach and his game plan but also because the club seems to be much better sorted off field as well.

Yeh and Roos went straight to the current leadership group and showed them respect and understanding. Conversely it appeared Neeld went to the existing leadership group and gave them very little respect. That's not to say that ultimately changing the leadership group was necessarily wrong, but the way he he reportedly went about it, it's no wonder why his whole tenure went sour and never recovered.

We know Roos will reshuffle the leadership group so that players can get the best out of themselves. Guys like Clark and Dawes thrive by being leaders, whereas on the other hand I expect Trengove to improve out of sight next year once he is relieved of captaincy duties.

 

[Perkins1990]

Jack Watts, call me overly optimistic, however I think he could become an elusive mid i.e.: Pendlebury under roos. Played basketball in exactly the same position and manner, I can see it transferring to the footy field. Either that, or he will continue to be an average so-so player.

 

[deeman87]

Fair point. It's not the only stat I've looked at though. I've had a long argument on Demonland with someone who claimed that Lynden Dunn was the worst footballer ever, and successfully demonstrated that, statistically, he's on par or better than every member of the Hawks back six other than Birchall.

That doesn't mean he's a better player than all of them from a subjective point of view (I doubt he's capable of a Brian Lake-like performance in a Grand Final for example, though I have no evidence to support that view, it's just a hunch), but it does make it difficult to argue that he's totally rubbish. Dropped into the Hawks back six this year, he would have held his spot and won a premiership, which would have shut the critics up. He's a victim of being a defender in the worst team in the league.

I take it you think he's always on dud opposition, which would help "pad" his stats... Except that he absolutely towelled up Chris Judd, if you'll recall...

Well i mean it's the AFL there are no duds as such but i think if you put him on the best forward every week his stats wouldn't be quite as flattering. If he was posting those kinds of stats while playing on the best players every week i think we could start throwing around labels like best one on one player but that isn't the case. Also Chris Judd is hardly half the player he was in his prime so that's not saying a whole lot. Again i'm not saying anything bad against Dunn he's hardly our worst player but i think those stats are a little misleading.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

He clearly isn't the best one on player in the league but he is one of the few players under neeld who you could give a task an he would complete it , people think the sun shines out of jack grimes ass but I think he makes more mistakes than Dunn but its not popular to bash him , I for one see him as a member of the best 22

No, no, no.

You're just used to Dunn making mistakes, now you don't even realize when he does!

 

[SuburbanMe]

No, no, no.

You're just used to Dunn making mistakes, now you don't even realize when he does!

You know what, this actually makes sense. But he has that BOOOOOOOMING kick.

 

[CWaffles]

I was just reading Trengoves article about how his stress fractures hindered his pre season and I honestly keep forgetting this kid is only 22 years old, he has at least another 8 years of football ahead of him and if he comes back fully fit next year with no captaincy as a burden he has the ability to really start forging himself as an elite mid of the Competition.

I am tipping Roos to work closely with him and I believe he will make the biggest improvement next year.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2013-10-10/foot-injury-hindered-me-trengove

 

[Tulip]

What's with all the apologetics for Neeld? As if all the excuses were the difference between Melbourne winning and losing.

You all saw the (lack of) game day strategy, of being blown out in 5 minutes. That is from poor coaching and nothing else. You all saw how Melbourne was having its ass handed to it for 3 quarters by 19 year olds in the first GWS match, before the biggest miracle since Steve Bradbury gave Neeld a stay of execution.

Better off-field resources may have resulted in more "honourable" defeats (say, 5 goals on average). When Neeld was sacked, Melbourne had a for-against percentage of 49.8%, worse than GWS despite GWS not even having won a single game at that time. Lost by an average of almost 13 goals a game (77.1ppg) - ie. Melbourne would have lost on average even if it had a 12 goal headstart. Ridiculous.

It seriously got to the stage where a loss by 9 goals or less was considered a good result.

Don't take my thread as an apology, I was just spitballing.

 

[Deefolt]

Stats can't give us an objective truth about a subjective question, but they certainly provide one basis upon which subjective opinion can be formed. If he was "nowhere close" to being the best player in the league at winning 1 on 1 contests, it seems rather unlikely that he would lead the league in that statistic, which is an objective fact.

You might think I'm full of it, but then you regularly use "lol" in a sentence, so I'm struggling to care what you think.

made it pretty clear what i think. You are clearly overrating a player meanwhile saying he wouldnt be worth anything to any other team...