Who's our Coach for 2014?

[The Flying Belgian]

Sportsbet have re-opened their market:

Tudor 2.75
Craig 7
Simpson 7.5
Goodwin 9
Williams 11
Richardson 17
Leppitsch 21

Leppa not bad value there. He and Leigh always had an excellent relationship.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

Previously you said you'd never have Harvey, yet for the past three weeks you have been advocating Harvey replace Voss.

What makes Williams better candidate than Craig?

If I can remember correctly you may have previously said you wouldn't have Williams under any circumstances.

Your position is very confusing.

McM has wanted Williams all the way through, I asked her very early in the piece. She comes across as a very loyal supporter who loves the notion of having our 'own' (current or ex-members of the Bears/Lions) in coaching positions. This has been a clear pattern over the years.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

Sportsbet have re-opened their market:

Tudor 2.75
Craig 7
Simpson 7.5
Goodwin 9
Williams 11
Richardson 17
Leppitsch 21

Leppa not bad value there. He and Leigh always had an excellent relationship.

Betstar has been a better guide. Sportsbet had Worsfold in the market still last night & have been very slow to react to news filtering throughout.

Betstar Market
Tudor 4
Simpson 5
Leppitsch 5
Goodwin 7
Richardson 7
Craig 9
Burns 15

 

[MacMum]

You are right, I have changed my mind on quite a few.....its called being fed up to the back teeth with the candidates mentioned...some being far worse than others....or sticking with the devil you know...best of a bad lot etc..if that is confusing, I'm sorry but this whole situation is confusing.

I really don't want anyone else but Voss....but seeing as we HAVE to have someone else, I'm trying to see those mentioned as coaches of our team.....its not happening with most of them.

As for Harvey, I still don't like him, but he is there already, the players know him and along with JB and Simon, I CAN see that working.

I like Williams far more than Craig....seems more fire in him....again, not my preference, (I did vote for him in the poll though..of the ones mentioned in it) but better than others. Some I don't know at all.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Betstar has been a better guide. Sportsbet had Worsfold in the market still last night & have been very slow to react to news filtering throughout.

Betstar Market
Tudor 4
Simpson 5
Leppitsch 5
Goodwin 7
Richardson 7
Craig 9
Burns 15

I was more posting as it had been taken down previously and I thought Leppa was pretty good value!

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

McM has wanted Williams all the way through, I asked her very early in the piece.

Well maybe not.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

I was more posting as it had been taken down previously and I thought Leppa was pretty good value!

You can't live on value.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Betstar has been a better guide. Sportsbet had Worsfold in the market still last night & have been very slow to react to news filtering throughout.

Betstar Market
Tudor 4
Simpson 5
Leppitsch 5
Goodwin 7
Richardson 7
Craig 9
Burns 15

I don't know if Sportsbet are slow on the uptake, or rather if they are just trying to cash in on people who are slow on the uptake.

 

[acuguy]

God, if we are going down the succession path, it is simple, just bloody appoint Matthews with a senior assistant!

 

[Always a Lion]

I said very early on that I was firmly on the get Roos at all costs camp. For mine he would have been a perfect fit. Now that it is an impossibility, I simply cannot form a firm opinion on any other option. I just don't know enough about any of the candidates to categorically say yey of ney.

Besides, I'd like to remain as positive as possible about whomever is appointed. Just about have had a gut full of the world falling down about the Lions. So, I'll just place my trust on those entrusted to make the appointment, to get the right man.

P.S. kinda warmer on the get a very experienced assistant and stand-alone option.

 

[SizeMatters]

I don't get why we would be using the same coaching model as Melbourne. Not like there is quality senior coaches available to have teaching a guy like Tudor, Richardson or Leppa.

I think Melbourne are using the same as ours, we made it public about our succession plan before they even landed Roos.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I think Melbourne are using the same as ours, we made it public about our succession plan before they even landed Roos.

I don't think we did. It was ROOS and ROOS alone that we were after once we sacked Voss. Nothing suggested the succession plan. We would want to have had a bloody good reason to sack Voss and look to go down the succession plan route.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

If (and it's the Murdoch press so that's a huge if) the word is right we're nervous about an untried coach, I don't get it. Take a look at the top 8:

Geelong - Scott - Untried at senior AFL level
Hawthorn - Clarkson - Untried at senior AFL level
Fremantle - Lyon - Experienced
Sydney - Longmire - Untried, although part of succession plan
Richmond - Hardwick - Untried at senior AFL level
Collingwood - Buckley - Untried, although part of succession plan
Port - Hinkley - Untried at senior AFL level
Carlton - Malthouse - Experienced

Plenty of untried coaches in that lot. OK, in a few cases it took them a few years to get there. I know we're a different market, but we've seen the best way to get money in is to get the crowds up. And the best way to get crowds up is results.

 

[LionKing]

No Roos, No Eade, No Worsfold, No Harvey

I'm not sure how appointing an assistant coach from another team will take us to the next level

Also succession plans are fraught with danger - what if an assistant coach was promised the coaching role in 3 years time as part of the succession plan and Ross Lyon or Paul Roos were available and were interested in coaching Brisbane?

Edit: Fair point TFB

 

[Bucking Beads]

A succession plan would be good if we got a decent coach for someone to learn under. Neil Craig surely isn't that guy. He didn't help much around Melbourne did he? His time at the Crows ended poorly as well. I am in favour of a fresh start with a an untried Assistant now.

 

[SizeMatters]

I think the recent case of Neeld being thrown into the deep end at the Dees has left the senior assistants cautious. They had a highly regarded senior assistant in Neeld, who lands the Dees job without any support in the coaching department, a list that lacks any motivation, and poor culture which potentially has ended a coaches career as he couldn't cope with the mammoth task that was given to him. With the Lions case we have an incompetent board that is fighting it out publicly with a challenger headed by Matthews, a player exodus is on the cards which will leave two large gaps in our playing list, and poor facilities that won't be up to date until 2016. It screams of poor culture if you are an outsider looking in.

If I was a coach I'd be hesitant in taking the Lions job at this stage. Need to fix the board first to provide stability and support.

 

[dlanod]

I think Melbourne are using the same as ours, we made it public about our succession plan before they even landed Roos.

I don't think we did. It was ROOS and ROOS alone that we were after once we sacked Voss. Nothing suggested the succession plan. We would want to have had a bloody good reason to sack Voss and look to go down the succession plan route.

I think our floating of a succession plan was meant to appeal to Roos in the attempts to entice him here.

It's fairly significant that Melbourne, in appointing Roos, came to the same conclusion regarding succession plans.

Now that Roos is out of the picture, there's no longer been any more comment from the club indicating whether or not a succession plan is still on the cards.

 

[_hyphy]

This may have already been mentioned, but Williams was on SEN this morning and mentioned he understood Neil Craig was still strongly in contention for the role.

 

[matwt73]

In all of the talk about coaches there continues to be some who argue that we need an experienced coach (Roos' woosha, williams)rather than an 'untried' assistant. I have always been in the promote an assistant camp (even while Roos was on the table) and decided to do some research.

In the last ten years only two premierships (Collingwood (2010) and Us (2003)) have been won by coaches who were not in their first coaching appointment. Scott, Bomber, Woosha, Roosy, Longmire and Williams all one whilst in their first appointment. It certainly suggests that going with an experienced coach is no guarantee of success.

Further in the last 10 years 5 wooden spoons have been won by clubs who had a coach NOT in his first appointment. (Sheedy, Wallace and Pagan have all taken their clubs to the bottom) Worsfold, went from premiership to spoon but I have left him out as he was still on his first gig. So what does that tell us?

It might tell us that for all of the talk of experience, a 'proven' coach is 2.5 times more likely to take you to the bottom of the tree than the top.

 

[LionKing]

In all of the talk about coaches there continues to be some who argue that we need an experienced coach (Roos' woosha, williams)rather than an 'untried' assistant. I have always been in the promote an assistant camp (even while Roos was on the table) and decided to do some research.

In the last ten years only two premierships (Collingwood (2010) and Us (2003)) have been won by coaches who were not in their first coaching appointment. Scott, Bomber, Woosha, Roosy, Longmire and Williams all one whilst in their first appointment. It certainly suggests that going with an experienced coach is no guarantee of success.

Further in the last 10 years 5 wooden spoons have been won by clubs who had a coach NOT in his first appointment. (Sheedy, Wallace and Pagan have all taken their clubs to the bottom) Worsfold, went from premiership to spoon but I have left him out as he was still on his first gig. So what does that tell us?

It might tell us that for all of the talk of experience, a 'proven' coach is 2.5 times more likely to take you to the bottom of the tree than the top.

You might be right but what about all those untried assistant coaches that were appointed as senior coahes and subsequently sacked during their tenure? Ratten, Neeld, Primus, Bailey, Knights, Laidley, Thomas, Daniher, the list is endless

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

I'd like to know what your thoughts on Ratten is. I haven't heard his name being mentioned so It looks like he is either not available or not being considered.
I looked at his recent record with Carlton and I still remember last years season as well, and in 2011 he took the team to the 2nd round in the finals to be only beaten by a couple of goals or less. 2012 they were the form team in those earlier rounds only to get smashed with injury and suspensions to finish with a 11/11 win loss ratio, which when he was sacked I was surprised to say the least. You could say he was moved on for Malthouse to take the raines.
If any of you saw last years game against us in round 2 they were playing very exiting running footy, this year they have been more direct with Malthouse only to see that didn't work so he changed the style of play more like they were playing under Ratten
So my point is , or more the question is he a dud or could he fit our needs?

 

[Elixuh]

If the board got rid of Vossy because they apparently believed that he could not take the group to the next level (finals) then hiring Ratten would be totally inconsistent with that reasoning.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

If the board got rid of Vossy because they apparently believed that he could not take the group to the next level (finals) then hiring Ratten would be totally inconsistent with that reasoning.

He did take them to the finals they finished 5th I think in 2011 , , and when you consider a team is then injury ravaged the following year it's not surprising or totally unaceptable to see them just miss out on a final place , they only missed out on a spot by 1 win.
To me it was similar to the sacking of Voss only our board didn't have a successor when the sacking was done, they had the so called Messiah .
I guess we'll see if Mick can take them to the next level, at present he is only par with Ratten.

 

[Elixuh]

He did take them to the finals they finished 5th I think in 2011 , , and when you consider a team is then injury ravaged the following year it's not surprising or totally unaceptable to see them just miss out on a final place , they only missed out on a spot by 1 win.
To me it was similar to the sacking of Voss only our board didn't have a successor when the sacking was done, they had the so called Messiah .
I guess we'll see if Mick can take them to the next level, at present he is only par with Ratten.

I viewed the Ratten sacking as being done with the reasoning (at the time) that he was unable to take them to the next level and that the team had kind of stagnated which was not acceptable given the depth of talent. If they're looking at experienced coaches then wouldn't hiring Ratten be completely inconsistent considering the reasoning given for sacking Voss?

I'm of the opinion anyway that the succession model will only appeal to a select few 'experienced' senior coaches such as Craig who may be looking to retire altogether in the coming few years.

 

[Betty Noir]

Leppa for mine. Ex-player... and a ranga. Can't ask for more.