why aren't Fitzroy's premierships considered part of Brisbane Lions history?

[threenewpadlocks]

Not many people care about some lower-level comp that the Fitzroy name has been barely surviving in to give an ever-dwindling number of fans something to reminisce about. It may be the same ACN (I'm not disputing that) but it certainly isn't the same club as the one which competed in the VFL/AFL. There's a subtle difference here that you're either refusing to understand or just too pig headed to acknowledge.

Regardless, the VAFA is the most it can hope for now, hopefully it can continue to survive in its current form, however it's not looking good in the long term.

Enough people apparently care in order for them to have been promoted across numerous divisions across the last 15 years in the VAFA. It's a bizarre point you're making.

Nobody's denying that many - if anything - a majority of former Fitzroy fans were fans of Fitzroy insofar they support the highest competition of football generally. But clearly enough supporters have held on since 1996 - even if a minority - that relative to the typical size of a VAFA club, it is a large amount, to see them have gotten those numerous promotions through the divisions. The fact that those who care is "not many" is irrelevant to that "not many", that minority who want to support the continued history of the team, rather than the concept of top-division football.

 

[PhatBoy]

Not many people care about some lower-level comp that the Fitzroy name has been barely surviving in to give an ever-dwindling number of fans something to reminisce about. It may be the same ACN (I'm not disputing that) but it certainly isn't the same club as the one which competed in the VFL/AFL. There's a subtle difference here that you're either refusing to understand or just too pig headed to acknowledge.

Regardless, the VAFA is the most it can hope for now, hopefully it can continue to survive in its current form, however it's not looking good in the long term.

Not many people give a toss about North Melbourne but it doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Nothing he’s said is incorrect. It’s the same club. They’ve shifted competitions - why is that so difficult for anyone to grasp?

 

[Roylion]

Not many people care about some lower-level comp that the Fitzroy name has been barely surviving in to give an ever-dwindling number of fans something to reminisce about.

The VAFA is less popular than the AFL. Wow. Who would have thought?

It may be the same ACN (I'm not disputing that) but it certainly isn't the same club as the one which competed in the VFL/AFL.

Any club that leaves the AFL competition will not cease to exist. Indeed any club that changes competitions does not cease to exist.

Will the nature of the club be different? Sure. But that does not mean that the club itself is a seperate club to the one that played in the previous competition.

There's a subtle difference here that you're either refusing to understand or just too pig headed to acknowledge.

Fitzroy Football Club over its 140 year old history has competed in the VFA, the VFL, the AFL and now the VAFA. The nature of the club may have changed over that time, but the club itself has never gone out of existence.

Regardless, the VAFA is the most it can hope for now,

Well yes. As i said, the club currently exists, as it started 140 years ago, as an amateur club representing the suburb of Fitzroy.

hopefully it can continue to survive in its current form, however it's not looking good in the long term.

Fitzroy Football Club (est. 1883) is a very strong community club (that has now achieved its goal of reaching the top grade in the VAFA) with a very strong junior presence. There's no reason why it won't continue to be that way.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Interestingly they are the only club in VAFA Premier Division which isn't a school or uni old boys team

Which must indicate some pretty decent level of support

 

[terrybull]

Not many people care about some lower-level comp that the Fitzroy name has been barely surviving in to give an ever-dwindling number of fans something to reminisce about. It may be the same ACN (I'm not disputing that) but it certainly isn't the same club as the one which competed in the VFL/AFL. There's a subtle difference here that you're either refusing to understand or just too pig headed to acknowledge.

Regardless, the VAFA is the most it can hope for now, hopefully it can continue to survive in its current form, however it's not looking good in the long term.

Which why it’s important to keep the Fitzroy spirit well alive in Brisbane.

We don’t want to see the club be remembered in time as University is now.

Oddly enough it seems Brisbane Lions are trying harder for the Fitzroy image than the Bears image.

 

[Freomaniac]

The legal nature of WWT's merger was different to the legal nature of Brisbane Bears taking on Fitzroy's branding and some of its players, and by extension, its supporters.

It's almost as if two things that are called the same thing for marketing purposes can be different.

point is Woodville-west torrens 1st season was 1991. They won flags in 1993, 2006, 2011, 2020 and 2021.

Woodville 1st existed in 1964 and lasted until 1990.

West Torrens established in 1897. Again won flags in 1924, 1933, 1945 and 1953.


Point is, is Woodville west torrens on 5 flags? Or can they add the 4 flags won by west torrens too?

 

[Back One Out]

The Brisbane Bears and the AFL (in particular, those campaigners Ross Oakley, Graeme Samuel) effectively stole the Lions history, logo, song and jumper by falsely claiming the 2 clubs merged. It was a hi-jacking and they grabbed 8 Fitzroy players, as well.

It wasn’t a true merger. The Bears really had nothing to do with it. The Fitzroy and North Melbourne board members agreed to a proper merger after the ‘96 GF, which was nixed at the 11th hour by the AFL and 14 jealous rival clubs. The AFL f-wits then orchestrated the bogus merger between the Bears and Roys, hoping to finally give the Bears some legitimacy and crowd support here in Melbourne.

But the public wasn’t fooled. Everyone knew that Ross Oakley and Graeme Samuel had killed off Fitzroy as an AFL club. Sure, Fitzroy’s finances were in disarray… But so too was Melbourne’s , St Kilda’s, North’s, the Bulldogs’, Port’s, and Brisbane’s over the next 5-10 years. They were all lucky the AFL changed tack and instead of actively trying to cull clubs, it was decided that more TV games meant a bigger TV rights deal and heftier bonuses for the AFL execs.



OP, the more sensible question to ask is why isn’t the Brisbane Bears history and match records linked to the Brisbane Lions records. That’s the true linear history of Brisbane as an AFL entity.

F**k the AFL for trying to rewrite the truth and pretend the Fitzroy F.C. became the Brisbane Lions via a bogus “merger”.

 

[Roylion]

It is very sad that you are hanging your hat on an ACN Number.

Is that the best you can come up with?

All that shows is your complete ignorance of what actually went on.

I really feel sorry for you....

No need. I still follow Fitzroy, the club of which I'm still a current member and shareholder. It's great seeing my 140 year old club still running around at their spiritual home the Brunswick Street Oval, every Saturday afternoon during the football season.

140 years old last year.

 

[Taper]

Brisbane claim 11 premierships which doesn't make sense.
It's only three premierships because they didn't merge with Fitzroy.
Port claiming 37 premierships on the other hand, makes sense because the Power and Magpies merged in 2010.

 

[juss]

This is the most infuriating aspect about the premiership tally that really triggers me. What the * was the point of the merger if you can't take both club's records and history with you? Why the hell do 'the bloods' talk about their premierships won 100 years ago and consider them apart of Sydney's history, if you can't do the same with Brisbane?



This is the most ******* argument I have ever heard. The fact is South Melbourne would have merged with Sydney if they already had a pre-existing club. It was just convenient for them that there was no existing Sydney team and the VFL wanted to make one. There is "literally" zero difference between the league shutting down South Melbourne and Fitzroy in order to relocate them up north.

Couldn't care less if they did.

One thing I find fascinating is how much people care about stuff decades ago, like somehow allowing them to acknowledge Fitzroy flags too makes one iota of difference to anyone today.

Hey Brisbane, we acknowledge Fitzroy's flags for your history.
Yay!
Now what?
Um... update your Wikipedia page I guess?

 

[eth-dog]

eth-dog...repeatedly making a fool of himself with his lack of knowledge!!!

I thought school holidays were over?

 

[Heardy_101]

You ignorant clown

You're the one denying the existence of a still existing football club.

Next thing you'll be telling us the North Sydney or Glebe Rugby League Clubs don't exist!

 

[Heardy_101]

I thought school holidays were over?

More than likely their carer has left them unsupervised.

 

[rapidfire7]

Couldn't care less if they did.

One thing I find fascinating is how much people care about stuff decades ago, like somehow allowing them to acknowledge Fitzroy flags too makes one iota of difference to anyone today.

Hey Brisbane, we acknowledge Fitzroy's flags for your history.
Yay!
Now what?
Um... update your Wikipedia page I guess?

Premierships are what it's all about, no matter how long ago they were. All supporters care about their club's tallies from the beginning, I would have assumed so anyway.

 

[juss]

Premierships are what it's all about, no matter how long ago they were. All supporters care about their club's tallies from the beginning, I would have assumed so anyway.

I'm probably in the minority here. If my club won 20 premierships before I was born and 0 in my lifetime I'd be disappointed and that wouldn't mean much to my supporter lived experience.

The lived joy of the flags I saw and experienced are what matter to me, they're the memories I'll enjoy forever not what the history books say on a page. I don't pull out my phone and celebrate at the pub the historical list of flags.

Happy to be in the minority here though, which maybe I am.

 

[rapidfire7]

I'm probably in the minority here. If my club won 20 premierships before I was born and 0 in my lifetime I'd be disappointed and that wouldn't mean much to my supporter lived experience.

The lived joy of the flags I saw and experienced are what matter to me, they're the memories I'll enjoy forever not what the history books say on a page. I don't pull out my phone and celebrate at the pub the historical list of flags.

Happy to be in the minority here though, which maybe I am.

Agreed that the ones we have lived through matter much more.

 

[Foxx]

We all know Brisbane are Brisbane. Fitzroy are gone. Same with South Melbourne. I mean c'mon, they are clubs in two different states.

 

[Roobs321]

South Melbourne and Sydney are the same club (indeed anecdotally my father was a South supporter from Vic who happened to move to Sydney around the same time and continued supporting them)

It’s not hard to recognise that BBFFC as an all-encompassing entity is custodian to 11 VFL/AFL men’s flags. Just like it is not hard to simultaneously recognise that the Brisbane Lions is a more robustly refitted continuation of the existing Brisbane (Bears) in practice and that the Fitzroy Lions came to a top-flight end.

 

[Heardy_101]

We all know Brisbane are Brisbane. Fitzroy are gone. Same with South Melbourne. I mean c'mon, they are clubs in two different states.

South Melbourne aren't gone, they changed their name to Sydney Swans. It was a literal relocation of a club. Show me where South Melbourne folded?

Fitzroy may no longer be a VFL/AFL club, but they are still very much alive albeit in an amateur competition.

I'll use North Sydney - and Glebe - as an example.

North Sydney Bears still exist as a club in a different competition. And yet using your logic (and the logic of old mate) they are dead, because they are no longer in the NRL and the Northern Eagles merger broke down.

Same with Glebe. Glebe are actually still playing in one of the NSW competitions, and yet they're the same club that once completed in the NSWRL. Again using the above logic they're gone.

 

[Foxx]

South Melbourne aren't gone, they changed their name to Sydney Swans. It was a literal relocation of a club. Show me where South Melbourne folded?

Fitzroy may no longer be a VFL/AFL club, but they are still very much alive albeit in an amateur competition.

I'll use North Sydney - and Glebe - as an example.

North Sydney Bears still exist as a club in a different competition. And yet using your logic (and the logic of old mate) they are dead, because they are no longer in the NRL and the Northern Eagles merger broke down.

Same with Glebe. Glebe are actually still playing in one of the NSW competitions, and yet they're the same club that once completed in the NSWRL. Again using the above logic they're gone.

South Melbourne and Fitzroy are gone from the AFL mate. Sydney and Brisbane took them over a long time ago. Just like businesses do it. But whatever makes people happy believing.

 

[Roylion]

South Melbourne and Fitzroy are gone from the AFL mate.

I’ve explained this plenty of times. Fitzroy was ejected from the AFL competition. The administrator surrendered their licence. The AFL granted the Brisbane Bears the use of its IP as it pertained to Fitzroy and Brisbane rebranded from the Bears to the Lions.

Fitzroy went into temporary recess in terms of fielding any football teams while it rebuilt its’ assets to do so and then entered the VAFA in 2009.

But yes, they are gone from the AFL. But at the same time they still exist as THE Fitzroy Football Club. 140 years old last year

Sydney and Brisbane took them over a long time ago.

Brisbane rebranded with AFL owned intellectual property as it pertained to Fitzroy. That included the Fitzroy lion logo for example. The Bears received AFL funds to rebrand as the Lions ( these things cost money) as well as eight pre draft selections from Fitzroy’s player list. With that AFL money the Bears also purchased or claimed other Fitzroy assets such as memorabilia in turn for settling Fitzroy’s debt as per an agreement with the administrator.

But whatever makes people happy believing.

See above.

Fitzroy still exist in their own right with their own independent revenue streams. For example they own the “FFC’ logo that appears on the front of the jumpers both when they were in the AFL and currently in the VAFA. The AFL and the Brisbane Lions do not.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Do the Swans still carry the words SMFC on the back of their jumper?

 

[Altum Volantes]

In the words of George Constanza…

“It’s not a lie, if you believe it.”

Keep on cut and pasting.

 

[VinnieB]

Out of interest, where are the Fitzroy premiership flags/cups held? Are they with the Fitzroy Football Club?

 

[Heardy_101]

South Melbourne and Fitzroy are gone from the AFL mate. Sydney and Brisbane took them over a long time ago. Just like businesses do it. But whatever makes people happy believing.

1. Sydney IS South Melbourne / vice versa whatever.

2. No one is disputing that Fitzroy are still in the AFL. Only that they don't exist full stop which is false.