Why do people think the Pies are so far ahead?

[The Finger]

All I get from that is, St Kilda seriously lacks depth. And you wonder why you can't win a flag.

LOL aLL we get from that responce is a understanding of your total lack of football knowledge. If you think that if the shoe was on the other foot and result wouldnt have been reversed you know nothing. The fact StKilda first of all made the Grand Final then to draw it against the odds shows how much depth they have.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

LOL aLL we get from that responce is a understanding of your total lack of football knowledge. If you think that if the shoe was on the other foot and result wouldnt have been reversed you know nothing. The fact StKilda first of all made the Grand Final then to draw it against the odds shows how much depth they have.

So you're calling Ice Wolf a liar? Or are you saying that a lack of replacement players is not the same thing as a lack of depth?

 

[srv23]

All I get from that is, St Kilda seriously lacks depth. And you wonder why you can't win a flag.

Do you think you would have won the flag if:

Jolly missed 7 of 8 quarters of the 2 grand finals
Pendelbury and Swan and were significantly hampered by injury for GF 2
and Sidebottom broke his hand for GF2
and
you lost Cloke for 3/4 of a season.

Your depth was barely tested this year. Nearly all premiership teams have great runs with injury. Do you still think you would have won the flag if you'd had an injury run like Adelaide did?

 

[the distributer]

LOL aLL we get from that responce is a understanding of your total lack of football knowledge. If you think that if the shoe was on the other foot and result wouldnt have been reversed you know nothing. The fact StKilda first of all made the Grand Final then to draw it against the odds shows how much depth they have.

seriously mate, maybe we arnt that far ahead of the saints and the cats but we're bloody light years ahead of melbourne and make no mistake about that my friend.

we were a fair way ahead in 2010, its obvious, but i think what most "sane" people are impressed about is the age of our list and what they were able to achieve, on paper we should only get better, football isnt played on paper though, if you were a betting man and you had to place your life on a team to win next years GF you would pick collingwood, lie about if you like, then again, dont bother.

 

[The Finger]

seriously mate, maybe we arnt that far ahead of the saints and the cats but we're bloody light years ahead of melbourne and make no mistake about that my friend.

we were a fair way ahead in 2010, its obvious, but i think what most "sane" people are impressed about is the age of our list and what they were able to achieve, on paper we should only get better, football isnt played on paper though, if you were a betting man and you had to place your life on a team to win next years GF you would pick collingwood, lie about if you like, then again, dont bother.

First thing is where not discussing Melb and I know exactly were we sit.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

Do you think you would have won the flag if:

Jolly missed 7 of 8 quarters of the 2 grand finals
Pendelbury and Swan and were significantly hampered by injury for GF 2
and Sidebottom broke his hand for GF2
and
you lost Cloke for 3/4 of a season.

Your depth was barely tested this year. Nearly all premiership teams have great runs with injury. Do you still think you would have won the flag if you'd had an injury run like Adelaide did?

Against the St Kilda side that we played in GF2? I think we'd still have beaten them. BTW, we already lost 1 forward for the season.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we had just as many injuries as every other club. I'm just saying a dream run would be no injuries at all, and that's far from what we had.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

So you're calling Ice Wolf a liar? Or are you saying that a lack of replacement players is not the same thing as a lack of depth?

Our depth was injured and unavailable for selection it is not the same as a lack of depth.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

First thing is where not discussing Melb and I know exactly were we sit.

Yeah, a thread titled "Why do people think Melb are so far ahead?" probably would stay on the front page for too long.

 

[The Finger]

So you're calling Ice Wolf a liar? Or are you saying that a lack of replacement players is not the same thing as a lack of depth?

How do they have a lack of depth? Is it because suprise suprise they havnt got a Dal Santo Gram or Gardiner stockpiled in there reserves? Get a clue even a full strength Melbourne would push a injury ravaged finals side.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

Our depth was injured and unavailable for selection it is not the same as a lack of depth.

You didn't have that many injuries this year.

 

[The Finger]

Against the St Kilda side that we played in GF2? I think we'd still have beaten them. BTW, we already lost 1 forward for the season.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we had just as many injuries as every other club. I'm just saying a dream run would be no injuries at all, and that's far from what we had.

By half time in the StKilda v WB Prelim when Dal Santo and Gram were injured the writing was well and truly on the wall.

 

[doppleganger]

By the 2nd Grand Final Replay our team rife with injury

Gardiner - Torn hamstring in 1st quarter of Grand Final
Gram - Limited Mobility
Dal Santo - Limited Mobility
Eddy - Broken Bones

We also had no replacements available for those that were injured
Geary - Injured and had not played in weeks
Steven - OP
Armitage - Injured and had not played in weeks
Raph Clarke - Injured
plus a few other injured

The rest of the available players were 1st years and or had played less than 10 games

Laughable...rife with injury, and you only had 1 bloke in your best 22 - Gardiner miss.

Limited mobility is a big injury now??

Geary, Steven et al......they are just fringe players.

And this doesn't even include the injuries that disrupted much of our season

What Riewoldt, the only significant injury the saints have had in 2 years?

See that. That is what a dream run is. We all know all clubs had players that missed a week here or there but Collingwood had nothing compared to St Kilda WB GEEL and Adel. It happens its nothing to get defensive about you had a dream run and won.

By the way Pendlebry had nerves not a virus.

St.Kilda have had a golden injury run.

Presti pulled out of the GF, we covered him with N.Brown.
Reid broke his leg and Didak played finals with torn pec

Our injuries were just as bad as St.Kilda.....

Guys like Medhurst and L.Davis would have made much bigger impacts if fully fit than a bloke like Armitage....we are talking two AAs compared to a kid who aint up to putting two good games in a row together.

 

[Falchoon]

All I want to get from that is, St Kilda seriously lacks depth.

agreed

 

[doppleganger]

How do they have a lack of depth? Is it because suprise suprise they havnt got a Dal Santo Gram or Gardiner stockpiled in there reserves? Get a clue even a full strength Melbourne would push a injury ravaged finals side.

You do realise that we covered

Presti with N.Brown
Dick with Blair
Medhurst with Sidebottom

If a team cant cover 3 injuries, two of which they were fit enough to be out on the park - just like Didak and Reid - they lack depth.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

How do they have a lack of depth? Is it because suprise suprise they havnt got a Dal Santo Gram or Gardiner stockpiled in there reserves? Get a clue even a full strength Melbourne would push a injury ravaged finals side.

For using the words Melbourne and finals side together in the same sentence, you forfeit the argument.

 

[doppleganger]

By half time in the StKilda v WB Prelim when Dal Santo and Gram were injured the writing was well and truly on the wall.

You do realise that at the end of our Prelim we had

L.Ball, Wellingham, Didak and Presti as blokes who were struggling big time to come up for the GF.

Why the feck do you think it is only the saints who have blokes that were limited going into the GF?

 

[The Finger]

You didn't have that many injuries this year.

Didnt have that many are you joking they had the standard ones that are a given each year. Then the big ones in Riewoldt Clarke Gram Kosi and the less documented ones but long term such as Armitage Steven King Dawson and Geary. The shambles of the BAKER suspension. The prelim when Dal and Gram both hobbled off and thats a bad run

Not to mention losing Lovett before season began.

 

[srv23]

Against the St Kilda side that we played in GF2? I think we'd still have beaten them.

No, against an essentially full strength side which made one unforced change for the replay (like they had to)

BTW, we already lost 1 forward for the season.

Sure, but not a forward of the quality of Riewoldt. It would be like Collingwood losing Swan or Pendlebury or Geelong losing Ablett for most of a season.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we had just as many injuries as every other club. I'm just saying a dream run would be no injuries at all, and that's far from what we had.

.
No-one has no injuries in a 22 round plus finals comp in a physical contact sport like footy. So in reality a dream run keeps for the most part, your very best players on the park for the bulk if not all of the season. Keeping a core of around 15 or so players that play effectively the whole season and having as few unforced changes each week. This not only keeps your best team on the park but creates competition for spots which is healthy and makes the guys in the team more accountable for their form, and pushes youngsters even further in an attempt to break into the seniors. That is essentially what Collingwood had in 2010. And at this stage they are clear favourites in 2011. If you get a run of injuries like Adelaide, then you will see the actual quality of your depth. It's very easy to boast about your depth when much of it has not had to be used at AFL level for more than the odd game here and there.

 

[HFF]

See that. That is what a dream run is. We all know all clubs had players that missed a week here or there but Collingwood had nothing compared to St Kilda WB GEEL and Adel. It happens its nothing to get defensive about you had a dream run and won.

By the way Pendlebry had nerves not a virus.

You talk up WB and Adelaide like they were serious title contenders.

We smacked the Bulldogs three times in the one season. We just got over the line vs Adelaide but that was in round 21 where the season was done and dusted for both teams.

As for "dream run" with injuries, of course you need an element of luck to go the distance but it was terrific player management rather than "dream run". As has been mentioned, Didak played from round 21 onwards with his pectoral muscle torn, Presti was out, Dick out for the season, Maxwell missed a month, Cloke for two through suspension, Medhurst and Anthony injured/underdone with limited games and whilst all this was happening guys like Goldsack, N.Brown, Macaffer, Blair etc weren't even best 22 regulars and they became premiership players, so we had our own issues to deal with throughout season 2010.

As for Pendlebury having "nerves", he lost 5-6kgs in the week leading up to GF1 so he was going into that game underdone.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

Didnt have that many are you joking they had the standard ones that are a given each year. Then the big ones in Riewoldt Clarke Gram Kosi and the less documented ones but long term such as Armitage Steven King Dawson and Geary. The shambles of the BAKER suspension. The prelim when Dal and Gram both hobbled off and thats a bad run

Not to mention losing Lovett before season began.

Hey, we're talking injuries, not rape charges and lengthy tribunal suspensions for players who get booked for 4 offenses in the one game.

Coming into the finals, St Kilda's injury list wasn't any worse than ours. The same can be said about the GF.

 

[Coin_Toss]

You do realise that at the end of our Prelim we had

L.Ball, Wellingham, Didak and Presti as blokes who were struggling big time to come up for the GF.

Why the feck do you think it is only the saints who have blokes that were limited going into the GF?

Not to mention Pendlebury was as crook as a dog and lost 5kgs during the week.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

.
No-one has no injuries in a 22 round plus finals comp in a physical contact sport like footy. So in reality a dream run keeps for the most part, your very best players on the park for the bulk if not all of the season. Keeping a core of around 15 or so players that play effectively the whole season and having as few unforced changes each week. This not only keeps your best team on the park but creates competition for spots which is healthy and makes the guys in the team more accountable for their form, and pushes youngsters even further in an attempt to break into the seniors. That is essentially what Collingwood had in 2010. And at this stage they are clear favourites in 2011. If you get a run of injuries like Adelaide, then you will see the actual quality of your depth. It's very easy to boast about your depth when much of it has not had to be used at AFL level for more than the odd game here and there.

I stopped reading when you suggested that riewoldt was worth Swan + Pendles. I can't take anything you say seriously after that.

 

[doppleganger]

Didnt have that many are you joking they had the standard ones that are a given each year. Then the big ones in Riewoldt Clarke Gram Kosi and the less documented ones but long term such as Armitage Steven King Dawson and Geary. The shambles of the BAKER suspension. The prelim when Dal and Gram both hobbled off and thats a bad run

Not to mention losing Lovett before season began.

What injury did he have?

Saints had 17 players play 20+ games in 2010.

Collingwood had 19, one of those being L.Davis who was dropped for the GF replay.

By the way Geelong had 18
And the Western Bulldogs had 16

Adelaide only had 7.

Adelaide had a horror run with injuries....no surprise that the top 4 teams all had a pretty good run in comparison.

 

[srv23]

You talk up WB and Adelaide like they were serious title contenders.

We smacked the Bulldogs three times in the one season. We just got over the line vs Adelaide but that was in round 21 where the season was done and dusted for both teams.

As for "dream run" with injuries, of course you need an element of luck to go the distance but it was terrific player management rather than "dream run". As has been mentioned, Didak played from round 21 onwards with his pectoral muscle torn, Presti was out, Dick out for the season, Maxwell missed a month, Cloke for two through suspension, Medhurst and Anthony injured/underdone with limited games and whilst all this was happening guys like Goldsack, N.Brown, Macaffer, Blair etc weren't even best 22 regulars and they became premiership players, so we had our own issues to deal with throughout season 2010.

As for Pendlebury having "nerves", he lost 5-6kgs in the week leading up to GF1 so he was going into that game underdone.

12 months ago Adelaide were a free kick and seconds away from beating you in the semi final.

Players that missed games in 2010 for Adelaide due to injury:

McLeod
Goodwin
Knights
Vince
Bock
Johncock
Dangerfield
Otten
Thompson
Burton
Porplyzia
Mackay
Stevens
Van Berlo
Symes
Sloane

All first 22 players during the season

Plus

Moran
Sellar
Martin
Hentschel

Talia
Shaw
Plus probably more youngsters I can't remember who wouldn't have got a game anyway

The point is we were decimated by injury and that's why we weren't serious contenders in a year many tipped us to be potential top 4. Would you compare Collingwood's injury run to that and how would you guys go with your depth to cover an injury list like that?

 

[srv23]

I stopped reading when you suggested that riewoldt was worth Swan + Pendles. I can't take anything you say seriously after that.

Swan or Pendles if you read accurately