Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[smish]

My point isn't grading Islamic nations. Quite the opposite; it's not attributing everything to Islam. There's no more reason to attribute Hussain's Iraq to Islam than to attribute Milosevics Serbia to Christianity or Hitler's Germany or the Hutus massacring Tutsi to Christianity - but I guarantee you if the Hutu were Muslims and not Christians that genocide would be laid at the feet of Islam - but have you ever heard anyone attribute it to Christianity or even mention that they are Christians?

All the Abrahamic religions have a heap of scripture and previous clerical judgements to justify massacre, repression and genocide in the name of religion and historically they've all had sects advocating for it and carrying it out, as well as a heap more sects advocating peace and harmony. At this point of history there's more Islamic groups using scripture to advocate massacre than Christians doing likewise, but that's ebbed and flowed throughout history and there's a rise of it in Christian America with many wanting to bring on Armageddon. Generally the rise and fall is more connected to power, politics, money and education than to the small differences in the faiths.

In a nutshell, I don't care what faith our refugees come from and certainly don't think there should be faith based immigration laws that discriminate against Muslims in terms of family reunion, employment or other visa types. But I do hope that there continues to be a general rise of agnostics and that secularism remains the cornerstone of our politics, which is unlikely to occur if the government gets pressured to prioritise one faith over another, which is the core goal being pushed with the Islamophobic argument.

In terms of whether Australia would be better with more Islamic influence, it depends on which aspects of Islam you're referring to. Modern Australian society could do with an injection of humility, hospitality, charity and empathy for the poor - aspects that tend to be very strong in Islamic cultures. But obviously it doesn't need the repressive elements that hold sway in some Islamic countries.

You can’t pick aspects/traits a la carte mate, you get the whole package

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You can’t pick aspects/traits a la carte mate, you get the whole package

I think his point was, some nations have more warlike/violent people than others.
Its not necessarily the religion that made them that way.

Then again, that might not have been the point at all?
If everyone on the planet followed the same religion or none, would everyone be peaceful?

 

[JackOutback]

I would be very interested in seeing you back up your wild claim that the Catholic Church has: gang r*ped more children than Islamic men in England across the past 30-40 years. Please provide sources for that claim.

For the record, I am not a "Tommy Robinson" supporter and have actually never seen anything he's produced. I was referring to the accounts shared by UK politicians and victims regarding this systematic abuse, and the UKs refusal to prosecute the perpatrators.

I find your position on these issues quite sick. You are willing to sacrifice clear morality at the altar of your progressiveness, to the extent you are morally baseless. Rest assured Jack. If there is anything I am opposed to you on, I know that I am on the right side of history.

I said child rape, not gang rape, but nice pivot, as if the Catholic Church only being responsible for systematic child rape around the globe and not the gang variety moves it down the ladder of awfulness. All child abuse is awful, the majority of it is committed by family members or known persons, with institutional settings also in the top three. If you believe Islam is the cause of said child rape, then you must equally believe the nuclear family and Catholic Church are as much the cause and should also be abolished. Or, more likely, you're using the actions of awful people to spread ill informed hate because it suits your agenda.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I said child rape, not gang rape, but nice pivot, as if the Catholic Church only being responsible for systematic child rape around the globe and not the gang variety moves it down the ladder of awfulness. All child abuse is awful, the majority of it is committed by family members or known persons, with institutional settings also in the top three. If you believe Islam is the cause of said child rape, then you must equally believe the nuclear family and Catholic Church are as much the cause and should also be abolished. Or, more likely, you're using the actions of awful people to spread ill informed hate because it suits your agenda.

Great. So you can't provide any evidence of your morally bankrupt position.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

So why can't Bible god make it rain?

weak!

 

[Johnny Bananas]

There will always be enough radicals performing attacks to keep a huge portion of westerners hating Islam.

That’ll never change. That’s the point.

Well, if that huge portion of Westerners think it's fine to mistreat people for the actions of others professing the same religion, that's pretty ugly. We don't have to go far back in Western history to remind ourselves what the culmination of that line of thinking is.

 

[Gough]

Islamic child r@pe gangs in England coming back into the limelight recently, Elon Musk has spread attention about it on X.

The stories are horrific.

Elon's new bestest mate is an actually rapist. I don't think he's arguing in good faith here.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Elon's new bestest mate is an actually rapist. I don't think he's arguing in good faith here.

Only in your imagination Gough!

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I would be very interested in seeing you back up your wild claim that the Catholic Church has: gang r*ped more children than Islamic men in England across the past 30-40 years. Please provide sources for that claim.

B.3: The scale of child sexual abuse

The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA), led by Prof. Alexis Jay, is investigating the extent to which institutions in England and Wales failed to protect children from sexual abuse.

www.iicsa.org.uk

Over 3000 instances of child sexual abuse in formal allegations against Catholic priests in England and Wales. Anyway the numbers aren't that important, even one child sexually abused is too many. The point is Muslims don't have some monopoly on it.

 

[Frank Bunn]

B.3: The scale of child sexual abuse

The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA), led by Prof. Alexis Jay, is investigating the extent to which institutions in England and Wales failed to protect children from sexual abuse.

www.iicsa.org.uk

Over 3000 instances of child sexual abuse in formal allegations against Catholic priests in England and Wales. Anyway the numbers aren't that important, even one child asexually abused is too many. The point is Muslims don't have some monopoly on it.

There is an important differential. The report on the Catholic church handing of claims of historical child sexual abuse was from a national inquiry.

Despite clear links between the causes of child sexual abuse by men of Pakistani background across the UK, and subsequent failures by the authorities to protect these girls, the government has refused to hold a national inquiry.

 

[Gough]

Only in your imagination Gough!

And a New York court. MAGA dropped every standard that they would seek to hold other people to when it comes to Trump.

 

[sr36]

So why can't Bible god make it rain?

weak!

He was breaking banishment to these groups gently. He wasn't giving any of them lands. He was banishing them to the desert.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

There is an important differential. The report on the Catholic church handing of claims of historical child sexual abuse was from a national inquiry.

Despite clear links between the causes of child sexual abuse by men of Pakistani background across the UK, and subsequent failures by the authorities to protect these girls, the government has refused to hold a national inquiry.

Funny how you want to ignore all the thousands of non-Pakistani perpetrators. You know what links almost all child sexual abusers? It isn't ethnicity or religion. It's gender.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Funny how you want to ignore all the thousands of non-Pakistani perpetrators. You know what links almost all child sexual abusers? It isn't ethnicity or religion. It's gender.

That's ridiculously reductive.

Why bother having extensive inquiries into the Catholic church, British Pakistanis, Aboriginal communities if the answer is just that all men are potential child sexual abusers?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

That's ridiculously reductive.

Why bother having extensive inquiries into the Catholic church, British Pakistanis, Aboriginal communities if the answer is just that all men are potential child sexual abusers?

Because that's a question of environment and opportunity. Unless you're arguing there's something specific about being Catholic, Muslim or Aboriginal that leads men to become abusers.

 

[sr36]

I would be very interested in seeing you back up your wild claim that the Catholic Church has: gang r*ped more children than Islamic men in England across the past 30-40 years. Please provide sources for that claim.

For the record, I am not a "Tommy Robinson" supporter and have actually never seen anything he's produced. I was referring to the accounts shared by UK politicians and victims regarding this systematic abuse, and the UKs refusal to prosecute the perpatrators.

I find your position on these issues quite sick. You are willing to sacrifice clear morality at the altar of your progressiveness, to the extent you are morally baseless. Rest assured Jack. If there is anything I am opposed to you on, I know that I am on the right side of history.

Wrong thread. The leader of the gang involved in the most high profile court case surrounding this issue in the UK was actually Sikh not Muslim. There's actually reams written by "progressives" about female objectification and sexual violence on the Indian subcontinent and it crosses religious divides.

 

[adammania9]

Well, if that huge portion of Westerners think it's fine to mistreat people for the actions of others professing the same religion, that's pretty ugly. We don't have to go far back in Western history to remind ourselves what the culmination of that line of thinking is.

There is nothing wrong with judging people on their religion. Much like the shirts you wear and the cereal you eat, religion is a choice made by each individual that chooses to align themselves with those beliefs and surrounds themselves with likeminded people.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

There is nothing wrong with judging people on their religion. Much like the shirts you wear and the cereal you eat, religion is a choice made by each individual that chooses to align themselves with those beliefs and surrounds themselves with likeminded people.

I didn't say "judge", I said "mistreat".

 

[adammania9]

I didn't say "judge", I said "mistreat".

It is perfectly fine to mistreat Muslims - Muslim men in particular - who moved to non-Islamic nations and didn’t leave their religious practices at the door. Their archaic and brutal religion disrupts every culture it invades.

 

[adogsfan5]

You never cease to amaze me.

Seems the norm now. Where religion or someone’s skin colour is more important than of the actual rape cases. Basically sums up why the UK are in the position that they are in.

Don’t you dare be concerned about young girls being gang r*ped…..because you haven’t posted on a footy forum about other rapes that have occurred (how DARE you!!)

You are down to three options:

1) Create a thread (or post elsewhere??) and be just as upset about UK citizens raping girls so that you no longer come across as “racist”.
2) Continue to be upset about it and cop the racist card.
3) Don’t say anything at all.

The world is fuc*ed. Good luck Irene.

 

[adammania9]

Always comes back to “but but but the priests!!!” Or “but the orange man!!”

 

[Carringbush2010]

There will always be enough radicals performing attacks to keep a huge portion of westerners hating Islam.

That’ll never change. That’s the point.

Yeah I doubt that, have you got evidence?

 

[adogsfan5]

Always comes back to “but but but the priests!!!” Or “but the orange man!!”

Priests are fair game. The Vatican, pope Benedict etc are beyond evil.
But showing care for any young girl, is also fair game. Nobody should be criticised for doing so.

 

[sr36]

It is perfectly fine to mistreat Muslims - Muslim men in particular - who moved to non-Islamic nations and didn’t leave their religious practices at the door. Their archaic and brutal religion disrupts every culture it invades.

How do you think we should mistreat Usman Khawaja?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

B.3: The scale of child sexual abuse

The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA), led by Prof. Alexis Jay, is investigating the extent to which institutions in England and Wales failed to protect children from sexual abuse.

www.iicsa.org.uk

Over 3000 instances of child sexual abuse in formal allegations against Catholic priests in England and Wales. Anyway the numbers aren't that important, even one child sexually abused is too many. The point is Muslims don't have some monopoly on it.

I think the point is: Islam does appear to have a near monopoly on gang r@pe. There is something sick about that particularly. It shows that it is not only some abhorrent act done when people think no one else is looking but something done in cooperation with others. Evidencing a cultural failure - a festered sin so common place it can be done on a group level. I think that is very distinct.

Second the raising of Catholocisms flaws is nothing but whataboutism. I condem child sex abuse by the catholic church equally. Yet none in here will say the same about Islam and instead deflect, obfuscate and ignore. It's sick.