Player Watch Willie Rioli

[philthy05]

Can you show one case where a player has the ball in their hands and gets suspended for a collision? I can't think of any.

The closest was probably the Mackay case a few years back where he sort of missed the ball with his hands. And he got off from that in the tribunal.

Suspensions for collisions/bumps only occur when the players doesn't have posession of the ball. That's the way it is.

He had only just collected the ball when he hit rozee.

What you are posing is an insane theoretical where Spp could have possession of the ball and run through every bloke on the field collecting heads as he goes and not get suspended. Cause possession = no liability for head high contact in your statement.



Shiel still has a duty of care not to collect rozee in the head even if he did collect the ball 0.3 secs before hitting him.

And the outcome based afl rules on … surprise … outcomes.

Shiel wasn’t in any trouble because rozee doesnt have a glass jaw, otherwise Shiel would be at the tribunal.

Shiel wouldn’t have gotten off cause “but he had the ball a fraction of a sec before the hit”

 

[Sleezy]

He had only just collected the ball when he hit rozee.

What you are posing is an insane theoretical where Spp could have possession of the ball and run through every bloke on the field collecting heads as he goes and not get suspended. Cause possession = no liability for head high contact in your statement.



Shiel still has a duty of care not to collect rozee in the head even if he did collect the ball 0.3 secs before hitting him.

And the outcome based afl rules on … surprise … outcomes.

Shiel wasn’t in any trouble because rozee doesnt have a glass jaw, otherwise Shiel would be at the tribunal.

Shiel wouldn’t have gotten off cause “but he had the ball a fraction of a sec before the hit”

1. Shiel didn't hit Rozee. Rozee tackled Sheil. Just because Rozee is stationary doesn't change the fact that Rozee initiated contact.

2. Why wasn't Marshall cited and suspended when he concussed Tom McCartin in an even worse scenario the one you're describing?

 

[Brian McGee]

1. Shiel didn't hit Rozee. Rozee tackled Sheil. Just because Rozee is stationary doesn't change the fact that Rozee initiated contact.

2. Why wasn't Marshall cited and suspended when he concussed Tom McCartin in an even worse scenario the one you're describing?

Only difference I see is Marshall is still down low getting the ball. Shiel picks it up and tries to run straight through the player waiting to tackle him. It would be an interesting one for the mro if he was concussed. I don’t think he gets suspended in this case though. It may be a different outcome in a couple of years time though.

 

[Brian McGee]

It is a significantly higher impact collision that Rioli’s though, outlining the mess that the afl finds itself in around concussion.

 

[Sleezy]

Only difference I see is Marshall is still down low getting the ball. Shiel picks it up and tries to run straight through the player waiting to tackle him. It would be an interesting one for the mro if he was concussed. I don’t think he gets suspended in this case though. It may be a different outcome in a couple of years time though.

I would have thought that concussing a player with his head over the ball is worse than the tackling player, who chose not to contest the ball.

I also don't think 'chose to run through him' is the right way to describe it. It makes it sound like Shiel initiated contact, when it is Connor that puts himself in Shiels way, so he can affect the tackle. Sheil is just trying to get clear so he can dispose of the ball.

 

[JakeNeadeFan]

He had only just collected the ball when he hit rozee.

What you are posing is an insane theoretical where Spp could have possession of the ball and run through every bloke on the field collecting heads as he goes and not get suspended. Cause possession = no liability for head high contact in your statement.



Shiel still has a duty of care not to collect rozee in the head even if he did collect the ball 0.3 secs before hitting him.

And the outcome based afl rules on … surprise … outcomes.

Shiel wasn’t in any trouble because rozee doesnt have a glass jaw, otherwise Shiel would be at the tribunal.

Shiel wouldn’t have gotten off cause “but he had the ball a fraction of a sec before the hit”

Still haven't been able to cite one case where this has occurred which highlights you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Jimmy95]

Still see big body clashes all the time, it's just the head clashes that the AFL is intent on removing at all costs....by all costs I mean don't go for the ball if you think it could result in a concussion.

 

[Coobk001]

The world where rozee gets concussed he gets done every ******* day.

That’s the way it’s been ruled for years now.

Who the hell has been watching football and thinks that you collect a player high, he gets concussed and the player gets off (barring a few very contentious times the afl has manufactured a result usually near finals for a vic like Cotchin)


High high + concussion is weeks 99.9999% of the time.

You're wrong on this one and fighting a losing battle.

 

[philthy05]

1. Shiel didn't hit Rozee. Rozee tackled Sheil. Just because Rozee is stationary doesn't change the fact that Rozee initiated contact.

2. Why wasn't Marshall cited and suspended when he concussed Tom McCartin in an even worse scenario the one you're describing?

1. Yes he did.

Shiel was the one moving, rozee had stopped.


2. Wtf are you talking about? The Marshall thing has absolutely zero to do with this. It’s not remotely similar.

Still haven't been able to cite one case where this has occurred which highlights you have no idea what you are talking about.

One case?

All of them.

When you collect the the head , and they get concussed, they send it to the tribunal.

 

[Sleezy]

Shiel was the one moving, rozee had stopped.

Rozee stopped so he could tackle Shiel. The relative movement of the two players is not as relevant as the role each player is playing in the contest.

Sheil has the ball, he has no incentive to initiate contact. He wants to avoid contact. Rozee is the one initiating the contact. If Rozee doesn't attempt to tackle, Shiel has no reason to touch him. Rozee puts himself in Shiel's way. As long as Shiel doesn't stick out an arm or an elbow, Rozee's tackling technique is up to Rozee, not Shiel.

Wtf are you talking about? The Marshall thing has absolutely zero to do with this. It’s not remotely similar.

Regarding the applicability of the [Marshall/T McCartin] example to the Shiel/Rozee contest, I'm wondering if you've seen the Marshal/T McCartin contest? It's not just analogous - it's worse.

Shiel/Rozee

• Ball is in dispute
• Rozee props, Sheil takes possession
• Rozee braces to tackle, Shiel braces for contact
• Rozee is not strong enough to stick the tackle and hits the dirt, but does not hit his head on the ground and is therefore not concussed

Marshall/T McCartin

• Ball is in dispute
• Marshall & T McCartin both go for the ball
• Marshall turns his body as he gets to the ball a fraction of a second before McCartin, also going for the ball
• Marshall hits McCartin in the head with his hip, causing a concussion

In both cases, the player with the ball bumps the player without the ball. That is why I think they are analogous. You disagree (quote: "It's not remotely similar") but I just can't understand why. I've outlined the ways that I think they are the worthy comparisons. Can you please outline (with specifics) why you think they are different?

The key difference in these incidents is that McCartin also has his head over the ball in an attempt to win it. Here is the key question:
If Marshall didn't get cited for actually concussing a player he was competing with for the ball, why would Shiel get cited for hypothetically concussing a player who did not contest the ball but waited to tackle?

When you collect the the head , and they get concussed, they send it to the tribunal.

You keep saying this, but it's just not true (three examples involving just Todd Marshall in the space of 3 weeks this year, none of which were cited). It's also not what JakeNeadeFan & I are talking about. We would both love to know of a specific example where the player with the ball has been cited for head high contact to the tackling player resulting in a concussion.

The closest I can think of is Danger (or maybe Ablett?) concussing someone with a raised elbow as a fend off in a final a few years ago, but even then that is functionally different than what Shiel did, which is take the ball and brace for the contact initiated by the tackling player.

 

[philthy05]

Rozee stopped so he could tackle Shiel. The relative movement of the two players is not as relevant as the role each player is playing in the contest.

Sheil has the ball, he has no incentive to initiate contact. He wants to avoid contact. Rozee is the one initiating the contact. If Rozee doesn't attempt to tackle, Shiel has no reason to touch him. Rozee puts himself in Shiel's way. As long as Shiel doesn't stick out an arm or an elbow, Rozee's tackling technique is up to Rozee, not Shiel.

Jesus

Go back, watch the footage. At no stage does rozee tackle Shiel.

Rozee did not initiate the contact. both players were going for the ball, Shiel got there a fraction of a second earlier, rozee pulled up, and Shiel ran through him and collected him in the head.

This is the most blindingly obvious thing in the world.

Shiel escaped fronting the tribunal because rozee got up and played on, because the mrp is results based punishment.


As for Marshall. Again, wtf are you on about. You’ve been told so many times those are completely different.

When did Todd make contact with mccartins head?

Why do you keep banging on about an incident that is so far and away different and not remotely relevant to this argument?

 

[philthy05]

2 weeks. About what we expected

 

[agmsy]

A 3.6 roentgen ruling by the tribunal. Not great, not terrible.

 

[Adz2332]

2 weeks is about right. Wouldn't have complained to much with 3. Take the 2 give evans a game

 

[TazD]

Glad with two because I thought they were going to give him three.

 

[Visenfest]

Should really have been zero due to be a complete accident, but 2 is acceptable. Better than the usual treatment we get.

 

[Gryllis]

Honestly surprised it wasn't 2 up to 18 with the Port tax.

 

[davesnothere]

Appeal it and get it back to 1.

 

[Macca19]

2 weeks seems right.

Off to laugh at Candice on twitter

 

[Willsy10]

Any downgrade at all is a good outcome.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[sobrave]

2 weeks seem right. an off the ball concussion sounds bad, but the there didn't look to be too much intent or force in the action, just unlucky and got him in a bad spot.

 

[Papa G]

Perhaps he got a racially abused on line discount?

 

[Sleezy]

Jesus

Go back, watch the footage. At no stage does rozee tackle Shiel.

Rozee did not initiate the contact. both players were going for the ball, Shiel got there a fraction of a second earlier, rozee pulled up, and Shiel ran through him and collected him in the head.

This is the most blindingly obvious thing in the world.

Shiel escaped fronting the tribunal because rozee got up and played on, because the mrp is results based punishment.


As for Marshall. Again, wtf are you on about. You’ve been told so many times those are completely different.

When did Todd make contact with mccartins head?

Why do you keep banging on about an incident that is so far and away different and not remotely relevant to this argument?

I'm trying to debate in good faith here Philthy, but when you don't read what I write or answer the specific questions I ask to help me better understand your argument, it feels like you're not offering the same in return.

I don't think Rozee is contesting the ball, I think he baulks, waiting to tackle. If he was contesting the ball, he would be trying to grab it. Which he does not do. He puts the breaks on instead.



If Rozee is not trying to tackle here, then what is he doing? His arms are around Shiel, so giving him a hug maybe? Imagine a different hypothetical where Shiel doesn't burst free and Rozee clings on and drags him to ground. Would you agree he was trying to tackle then? Just because the tackle failed (quite spectacularly), doesn't mean he wasn't attempting to tackle In the first place.


As for Marshall/T McCartin, he hits him in the head, with his hip. R4, Q2, ~11 mins in. Below is copied from my second post in this discussion.

Todd Marshall & Tom McCartin contest the ball (Note this is different from the Rozee/Shiel incident, where only Sheil was contesting the ball. Rozee stopped and waited to tackle)

Todd Marshall collects Tom McCartin's head with his hip, causing a concussion. Todd Marshall is not cited for this.

This is the question I posed along with this example:
If Marshall didn't get cited for actually concussing a player he was competing with for the ball, why would Shiel get cited for hypothetically concussing a player who did not contest the ball but waited to tackle?

 

[Pappagallo]

At least that bullshit severe classification was downgraded. What nonsense.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Yeah the idea of this being 4 never sat too well with me. Should always have been 2-3 and 3 always felt about right.

Will take 2 all day. It might even help Junior also to have a couple of weeks to re-focus.