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Half back for sure.
Analysis Wing Attendance Megathread 2023
- Thread starter ZoBlitz
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I really don’t like when Robertson is used on the wing. Every time he goes there we usually seem to struggle on switches and keeping up with teams. I used to think he just shouldn’t be in the side but he’s played really well at half forward. So I really hope if we lose another winger we go bring in someone like Sharp who can play most of the game on wing and let Robertson go half forward or inside.
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Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
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Dev does get moved around a little which makes it hard for him to slot into a regular position.
One thing i have noticed with Dev is he often chooses a sideways or slightly forward/backwards kick.
Except for the Swans game (304 MG) his meters' gained average is 118. Increases to 144 when the 2 sub games are excluded.
Berry average is 289 and Fletcher 211.
In that Swans game he only had 7 wing attendances and i believe he was in the midfield a fair bit.
If Berry returns this week, it will be interesting to see who makes way for him.
Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
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Robertson: 81% TOG, 10 Disposals@ 70%, 3 Marks, 6 Tackles, 0G 1B, 112 Meters gained.
Fletcher...: 78% TOG, 10 Disposals @ 80%, 3 Marks, 0 Tackles, 1G 0B. 193 Meters gained.
Wilmot....: 77% TOG, 15 Disposals @ 80%, 5 Marks,4 Tackles, 1G 0B, 211 Meters gained.
Fletcher...: 78% TOG, 10 Disposals @ 80%, 3 Marks, 0 Tackles, 1G 0B. 193 Meters gained.
Wilmot....: 77% TOG, 15 Disposals @ 80%, 5 Marks,4 Tackles, 1G 0B, 211 Meters gained.
KissKiss
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So comparing Dev and Fletcher. Dev did wing relief but also spent more time in the forward line. Fletcher looks more pure wing. Dev much better physical defence but a step back in ball delivery. Neither really got the ball anymore or less. But both roles are not ones we use a lot.
We probably all knew this but its good to see the stats that back this up.
Tough to pick between them if thats what needs to happen. Both offer very different things
We probably all knew this but its good to see the stats that back this up.
Tough to pick between them if thats what needs to happen. Both offer very different things
The Flying Belgian
Third Tall
Stating the obvious, but those heatmaps (while useful) are for possessions only. Heatmaps of GPS tracking would be more telling if they were publicly available.
Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
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Agree, more free information would be helpful like GPS tracking and others, but as you would be aware Champion Data need to make money.
So, they sell it, mainly to Clubs, media and anyone else that can afford the price.
Unfortunately, that leaves posters on BF and most of the fans left with the free stuff wherever we can find it.
Individual stats on their own just tell part of the story.
Teams have shutdown players, role players, pressure players, taggers or run with players, contested beasts, line breakers, tackle machines etc.
.......................
A quick google search revealed these two articles in 2019. A few years ago, so things may have changed a bit.
Champion is 49% owned by the AFL. Two of the company's directors are AFL Legal Consul Andrew Dillon and general manager of broadcasting Simon Lethlean.
Champion Data in New AFL Contract | AFANA
by Lisa Albergo reporting for AFANA from Chicago Two major data companies, Champion Data and Catapult Sports International, have bid to become the AFL's GPS data provider. Champion Data was founded by former Carlton player Ted Hopkins (best known for his four second half goals which helped the...
www.afana.com
...................................................
The premium product from Champion Data, I am informed, is around $150,000 per season. Only about five clubs pay for it, currently. The AFL sets the soft cap, forcing clubs to make decisions about the amount of money they spend on data versus hiring their own analysts, and even spending on AFLW.
Locking up AFL data will only make it less valuable
Earlier this month the AFL website published an article based on data generated by Stats Insider rather than Champion Data. Champion Data is the…
www.theroar.com.au
Great article there highlighting the AFLs short sightedness in trying to improve the game.Agree, more free information would be helpful like GPS tracking and others, but as you would be aware Champion Data need to make money.
So, they sell it, mainly to Clubs, media and anyone else that can afford the price.
Unfortunately, that leaves posters on BF and most of the fans left with the free stuff wherever we can find it.
Individual stats on their own just tell part of the story.
Teams have shutdown players, role players, pressure players, taggers or run with players, contested beasts, line breakers, tackle machines etc.
.......................
A quick google search revealed these two articles in 2019. A few years ago, so things may have changed a bit.
Champion is 49% owned by the AFL. Two of the company's directors are AFL Legal Consul Andrew Dillon and general manager of broadcasting Simon Lethlean.
Champion Data in New AFL Contract | AFANA
by Lisa Albergo reporting for AFANA from Chicago Two major data companies, Champion Data and Catapult Sports International, have bid to become the AFL's GPS data provider. Champion Data was founded by former Carlton player Ted Hopkins (best known for his four second half goals which helped the...
...................................................
The premium product from Champion Data, I am informed, is around $150,000 per season. Only about five clubs pay for it, currently. The AFL sets the soft cap, forcing clubs to make decisions about the amount of money they spend on data versus hiring their own analysts, and even spending on AFLW.
Locking up AFL data will only make it less valuable
Earlier this month the AFL website published an article based on data generated by Stats Insider rather than Champion Data. Champion Data is the…www.theroar.com.au
Everything around the way the sport is presented is very amateur, commentary, analysis, data. I think the AFL holds a right grip on this as they know if it becomes open they will be shown just how incompetent they are.
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It’s ridiculous it’s not subsidised by the AFL and made publicly available. Only five clubs deciding to get access is a terrible look.
Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
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I just grabbed a couple of articles to get some information.
Maybe Champion Data have different costs structures. $150K gets you the lot back in 2019.
It is quite likely you can get a different plan that has less data and so on down to a basic plan.
I am just guessing as nothing on their site gives out prices.
Like the old saying if you have to ask the price you can't afford it
KissKiss
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Some massive conflict of interests in how it was set up by the board members and how they basically have it locked down so noone can compete in the space
KissKiss
Norm Smith Medallist
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I know a couple of different websites and individuals have enquired about access to different levels of access and generally all have reported back that the cost quoted is nuts for what they offer. Very much quoted at a nuisance to make most people go away.
They seem to have very little interest letting anyone else get a foot hold in the market
Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
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Champion Data still need to make money to keep the company going.
They must be making sufficient $ from the big clients to continue as is.
To be fair the vast majority of sports fans just want the basic stuff to keep them a little informed.
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I'd chip in $50 to be able to avoid having to listen to David King if I want to find out any advanced stats.
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- #166
Can I use it to fill out AFLMStats/AFLWStats/etc
? Could be a nice timesaver on my effort
ZoBlitz
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Hey, so I re-watched this so you didn't have to. Interestingly we were playing Gunston as the third winger, not just the defensive winger, in the first half before he switched over with Bailey.
| Wing Attendance | Round 18 | Melbourne | MCG | |||||||
| Names | Q1 | Q2 | Q3 | Q4 | Total | Percentage | ||||
Top | Bottom | Top | Bottom | Top | Bottom | Top | Bottom | |||
| Berry | 4 | 2 | 4 | 2 | 6 | 3 | 21 | 30.00% | ||
| Fletcher | 3 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 6 | 1 | 3 | 21 | 30.00% | |
| Gunston | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 11 | 15.71% | ||
| Bailey | 1 | 1 | 4 | 2 | 8 | 11.43% | ||||
| McCarthy | 1 | 1 | 1.43% | |||||||
| Rayner | 3 | 3 | 4.29% | |||||||
| Robertson | 4 | 4 | 5.71% | |||||||
| McCluggage | 1 | 1 | 1.43% |
Dalions
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That’s just weird man!
Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
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Thanks again ZoBlitz for your W/A figures.
I carefully rewatched the replay to see how much true wing time Gunston played.
This was to be a reply to 3KZ's statement that Gunston played wing “significant part of the game”, ”Other people have remarked on the fact that Fagan was playing Gunston as a wing. It is not open to interpretation, it is a fact.”
By the time i collected the information needed, the thread was closed.
My intention was to watch Gunston closely so i had to constantly pause and replay.
See how the guy actually played and where he played and not go on peoples perceptions.
My opinion after watching him closely is Gunston played better than most people think considering what he was asked to do.
My W/A total for Gunston was 10 to your 11 so close enough. So, my combined total is slightly different to yours
Your total of 70 is correct. Goals scored x 2 + 4 quarters less goals scored after the siren x 2. Jo scored after siren (32 goals x2) +(3 x2) = 70.
My prepared reply post to 3KZ was long but here is part of it covering the 1st half as you have mentioned and also the 2nd half.
Quarter 1
The very first 3 wing attendances were Berry and Fletcher.
Gunston had 3 wing attendances for the quarter.
After we were 18 points down, he went to the wing.
Hunter was his opponent as 3KZ stated.
Again, after we were 24 points down, but he went to the opposite wing this time he was on Langdon (i think).
Gunston pushed Petracca off balance and saved a goal. Score 25-0
The last attendance was with only 43 seconds remaining. Hunter again his opponent for a short period.
Jo scored a goal after the siren so no other attendances.
Gunston played full wing from the 16.15-minute mark when we found ourselves down by 18 points.
He stayed playing full wing until Bailey goaled at the 10.45-minute mark.
That's 5 minutes 30 seconds pure wing time. Let's say 6 minutes.
Quarter 2
First bounce Gunston played pure wing for about 5 minutes until the first goal scored around the 15-minute mark.
He did not drop back into defense during this period.
In the other 3 wing attendances he dropped back as an extra defender.
In the last of those 3 attendances, there was only 7 seconds left on the clock.
Quarter 3
Again, lined up on the wing at first bounce. Played pure wing for about 2 minutes until the first goal scored.
That was his only attendance for that quarter.
Rayner took over that wing/defense role with his 3 attendances.
Quarter 4
Gunston to wing with 4.44 left on the clock. Straight to defense with Fletcher to wing from his forward position.
With 2.12 to go I was unable to determine who was on one wing. I will give it to Gunston.
The play was over the other side for the remainder of the game so unable to confirm one way or another.
If he did line up on the wing, he would have dropped back in defense.
But he could have been forward as he was forward going into the last bounce.
The wingers for the very last bounce of the game were McCluggage & Bailey.
Total for 4 quarters.
So, a total of 10 wing attendances of which he spent about 13 (6+5+2) minutes pure wing.
Adding and allowing for time on in those 13 minutes say another 4 minutes extra.
Then allowing for small periods of wing at those 10-wing attendance before he immediately dropped back in defense say a generous 30 seconds each, that's another 5 minutes.
Total time pure wing 13+ 4 + 5 = 22 minutes pure wing time of his 107 minutes played for the game.
Nunez
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Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
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Not really.
I would actually prefer Coleman or Wilmot to eat up those times.
But only late in quarters if needed. So, what Gunston and Rayner were doing previously.
But Fagan intention must have been to do something different v Dees.
Will be interesting to see if Fagan goes down that path v Cats on Saturday.
It is still not a great deal of pure wing time just more than usual.
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ZoBlitz
The Ghost Who Walks
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It is nice to see that I'm not the only nerd who cares about this stuff. I was surprised realising that Gunston was playing on the wing (admittedly not for ages as noted by Section 5) but then with Dev out it was probably going to be him or Bailey helping out there and in the end it turned out to be both!
It's also worth noting if you're interested in getting a feel of what a player is doing in a game without rewatching the whole thing is that you can watch the highlights of individual players in the AFL app and they can be quite comprehensive. Might help back up opinions of who's doing what where beyond just looking at heat maps.
To whine a bit on my end, it's also bloody awful trying to record attendances in Kayo now with no quarter start/goal tag points and the fact that when you're trying to spool through with the fast forward the interface covers the current score so it's hard to keep track of what the current goal count is to check your figures. And there's a delay in the interface minimising when you hit play so you have to give it a buffer so it doesn't cover the bottom positioned wing.
It's also worth noting if you're interested in getting a feel of what a player is doing in a game without rewatching the whole thing is that you can watch the highlights of individual players in the AFL app and they can be quite comprehensive. Might help back up opinions of who's doing what where beyond just looking at heat maps.
To whine a bit on my end, it's also bloody awful trying to record attendances in Kayo now with no quarter start/goal tag points and the fact that when you're trying to spool through with the fast forward the interface covers the current score so it's hard to keep track of what the current goal count is to check your figures. And there's a delay in the interface minimising when you hit play so you have to give it a buffer so it doesn't cover the bottom positioned wing.
Last edited:
almagoo
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Nice work Section 5!
When he was playing wing you could tell he was playing a very defensive role there.
Nunez
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Oh sorry I was mucking around with my comment.
Your post was really interesting and it is good to see how Jack was used and to good effect.
Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
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I don't have Kayo. For this exercise i had to go on the AFL replay which is time consuming. Sounds like Kayo is just as bad to look at though.
I usually rely on your figures and add some heat maps even though they only tell part of the story.
Some posters probably don't know where to find the heat maps.
I don't think i can get the player highlights on my app. Do you have to be a Telstra customer?
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