Wooden Spoon - Tigers 2010

[Morro]

I just read Port will be playing Westoff in the ruck, and Schulz, who is running hot, will be the 2nd key forward after Tredrea.

Surely that news alone puts into 15th

Beware a player with something to prove especially a KPF that we no longer wanted.

 

[the ranger]

I'm getting sick of the Carltank rubbish.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25818093-5018851,00.html



http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25818093-5018851,00.html

It seems Carlton aren't the only side with coaches prepared to to put the Que in the rack late in the season.

Wallace doing nothing could only be good for our performance. We nearly beat a superior Saints team!

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Beware a player with something to prove especially a KPF that we no longer wanted.

True...and the go home factor on top of that!

 

[cormick]

Crawford tips us for 16th in today's HUN fwiw.

 

[Malifice]

We have little doubt here at Tigerland that is going be a tough year, we accept the fact that we will be thereabouts for the spoon.

It appears not everyone in Tigerland is in agreement:

We will win at least 8 games but I think up to 16 are winnable. Of course we are going to need a little bit of luck. We will have a couple of surprise wins and could have 9 wins after 11 rounds, seriously we are a chance to make the finals.

Hence my comments.

Also as a Carlton supporter, sadly I have a lot or recent experience of following a team that has finished last (or near enough to it) over the past few years, has closely watched a massive list rebuild from the ground up, and a massive change in administration, recruiting, club business and facilities.

Just thought I could share some of that experience with you guys.

Our upside however is much brighter than your tanking lot in the future.

I disagree (at the moment). Our core group of players are all between the 19-23 year old age bracket: Murphy, Gibbs, Kruezer, Jamison, McLean, Betts, Yarran, Henderson, Warnock, Hampson, Lucas, Russell, Bower, Grigg etc.

Judd/ Simspon/ Waite/ Thornton are all around the 26 mark. Our only players that are 27 or over are not a part of the 'core' group and we could lose them without noticing.

Id say our future looks pretty bright.

Your midfield is your best asset however you will struggle this year due to no Fev as your focal point and target to straighten your team up. i mean who are they going to kick it to up their........Betts, Yarran, oh yeah Satanta.

WCE didn't have a forward line either when they won the flag.

Back to your culture........cheating & rorting the salary system until caught..........

Richmond were fined $20,000 in 1996, a further $21,000 in 1998, and a further $10,000 in 2000 for breaches to the salary cap.

recruiting players with known problems that led to them stealing from team mates............

Ben Cousins ring any bells?

Or for a more recent example:

Young Tiger Troy Taylor facing assault charge:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...g-assault-charge/story-e6frf9jf-1225825551896

don't start me on some of things fev has done.............

Like pissing in public:

Tiger Captain caught urinating in public:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/kane-stays-as-tigers-captain/story-e6frf7kx-1111115869499

Or scaring sponsors due to issues with drinking?

The TAC has previously played tough with AFL clubs, pulling out of a 16-year major sponsorship deal with Richmond last year after player Jay Schulz was caught over the limit and speeding. Richmond was already on notice that an incident such as this would result in termination of the deal after another player was caught drink-driving in late 2001.

http://www.bandt.com.au/news/4a/0c04094a.asp

to the greatest mercenary to ever play the game "Captain Judd".

You mean the Mercenary that you guys chased as hard as us to get to your club?

I just read Port will be playing Westoff in the ruck, and Schulz, who is running hot, will be the 2nd key forward after Tredrea.

Surely that news alone puts into 15th

Port will suck this year, the only thing in their favor is a nifty home ground advantage usually guarantees them at least half a dozen wins.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Essendon dont make a dramatic fall either. Losing McPhee, Lloyd, Lucas and Lovett, and with Fletcher the oldest in the AFL at 35, and Hille coming back from an ACL injury, I just cant see them improving on last year.

 

[jihg]

It appears not everyone in Tigerland is in agreement:



Hence my comments.

Also as a Carlton supporter, sadly I have a lot or recent experience of following a team that has finished last (or near enough to it) over the past few years, has closely watched a massive list rebuild from the ground up, and a massive change in administration, recruiting, club business and facilities.

Just thought I could share some of that experience with you guys.



I disagree (at the moment). Our core group of players are all between the 19-23 year old age bracket: Murphy, Gibbs, Kruezer, Jamison, McLean, Betts, Yarran, Henderson, Warnock, Hampson, Lucas, Russell, Bower, Grigg etc.

Judd/ Simspon/ Waite/ Thornton are all around the 26 mark. Our only players that are 27 or over are not a part of the 'core' group and we could lose them without noticing.

Id say our future looks pretty bright.



WCE didn't have a forward line either when they won the flag.



Richmond were fined $20,000 in 1996, a further $21,000 in 1998, and a further $10,000 in 2000 for breaches to the salary cap.

[/size]

Ben Cousins ring any bells?

Or for a more recent example:

Young Tiger Troy Taylor facing assault charge:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...g-assault-charge/story-e6frf9jf-1225825551896



Like pissing in public:

Tiger Captain caught urinating in public:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/kane-stays-as-tigers-captain/story-e6frf7kx-1111115869499

Or scaring sponsors due to issues with drinking?



http://www.bandt.com.au/news/4a/0c04094a.asp



You mean the Mercenary that you guys chased as hard as us to get to your club?



Port will suck this year, the only thing in their favor is a nifty home ground advantage usually guarantees them at least half a dozen wins.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Essendon dont make a dramatic fall either. Losing McPhee, Lloyd, Lucas and Lovett, and with Fletcher the oldest in the AFL at 35, and Hille coming back from an ACL injury, I just cant see them improving on last year.

Here's a thought if your only going to come in here and put our club down **** off and don't come back.

 

[deliberate!!]

Here's a thought if your only going to come in here and put our club down **** off and don't come back.

They are safe from being carded....that's why. They know it.
That dude SHOULD be on a holiday already.
That's a well planned troll.

 

[Malifice]

They are safe from being carded....that's why. They know it.
That dude SHOULD be on a holiday already.
That's a well planned troll.

Im attempting to discuss the topic of the thread title in a reasoned way. I got sidetracked with a Carlton vs Richmond debate above but that's perhaps inevitable and maybe even relevant due to Carltons recent history of finishing last a few times. Its a touchy topic I admit, so I am treading as carefully as I can and being as respectful as possible.

And im certainly not starting any shit. Al tough im certainly copping it (perhaps understandably).

For the record, I'm here to see Richmond opinions on:

a) A consensus on your prospects of finishing last this year (as per the thread title),
b) A discussion on what got you in this position in the past, and how to avoid it in the future and
c) Opinions on the future direction and development of your club.

I hope I am providing an objective (as I can be) outsiders perspective on these issues. Comparisons to Carlton (and Melbourne) from recent times are maybe even useful considering the threads topic.

I'm certainly not here to insult, belittle or 'Troll' Richmond.

 

[Malifice]

And to bring the thread back on topic:

But Crawford expects the Tigers, under first-year coach Damien Hardwick, to finish last.
"Damien has a great game plan and a great understanding of the game," he said.
"He does not want to coach a team to make the finals; he wants to coach a team to win a premiership.
"That's why he is prepared to take a few steps backwards to go

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...lett-to-go-north/story-e6frf9jf-1225827438786

He also has the Dogs winning the flag, and Carlton and Essendon to slide out of the 8.

 

[Morro]

Unfortunately Mal, many of our supporters are quite edgy due to the crap we cop from your less respectful mates.

I think the answers you seek are so obvious it isn't funny.

We are where we are largely due to a lack of funding being poored into our recruitment and development.

Sadly it took the best part of 3 decades for this to be rectified.

 

[deliberate!!]

Im attempting to discuss the topic of the thread title in a reasoned way. I got sidetracked with a Carlton vs Richmond debate above but that's perhaps inevitable and maybe even relevant due to Carltons recent history of finishing last a few times. Its a touchy topic I admit, so I am treading as carefully as I can and being as respectful as possible.

And im certainly not starting any shit. Al tough im certainly copping it (perhaps understandably).

For the record, I'm here to see Richmond opinions on:

a) A consensus on your prospects of finishing last this year (as per the thread title),
b) A discussion on what got you in this position in the past, and how to avoid it in the future and
c) Opinions on the future direction and development of your club.

I hope I am providing an objective (as I can be) outsiders perspective on these issues. Comparisons to Carlton (and Melbourne) from recent times are maybe even useful considering the threads topic.

I'm certainly not here to insult, belittle or 'Troll' Richmond.

Oh no, of course raising these issues as a put down of a club on their own board, is not a troll.

"Young Tiger Troy Taylor facing assault charge:

Tiger Captain caught urinating in public".

You just don't do it.

Whatever.

Piss off.

 

[Malifice]

Oh no, of course raising these issues as a put down of a club on their own board, is not a troll.

"Young Tiger Troy Taylor facing assault charge:

Tiger Captain caught urinating in public".

You just don't do it.

Whatever.

Piss off.

I wasn't putting your club down mate. The above are factual news issues affecting your club (and dealt with by your club). Carltons salary cap indiscretions and 'culture' was raised as a reason for Carlton to finish last this year by one of your posters. My response was more aimed along the lines that there isn't much of a difference between the 'cultures' of our two clubs as one would imagine.

Also, I wasn't the one raising salary cap issues, Judd being a mercenary, Fev being a tool etc. If you read above, I actually was trying to steer away from them as they aren't related to the topic of the thread.

However if posters do want to raise theses issues, at least raise them in context.

 

[deledio7]

Im attempting to discuss the topic of the thread title in a reasoned way. I got sidetracked with a Carlton vs Richmond debate above but that's perhaps inevitable and maybe even relevant due to Carltons recent history of finishing last a few times. Its a touchy topic I admit, so I am treading as carefully as I can and being as respectful as possible.

And im certainly not starting any shit. Al tough im certainly copping it (perhaps understandably).

For the record, I'm here to see Richmond opinions on:

a) A consensus on your prospects of finishing last this year (as per the thread title),
b) A discussion on what got you in this position in the past, and how to avoid it in the future and
c) Opinions on the future direction and development of your club.

I hope I am providing an objective (as I can be) outsiders perspective on these issues. Comparisons to Carlton (and Melbourne) from recent times are maybe even useful considering the threads topic.

I'm certainly not here to insult, belittle or 'Troll' Richmond.

Not trolling? I suppose bringing up Terry's tanking against St Kilda and Kane Johnsons urinating and Troy Taylor's assault are all relevant to a thread about the wooden spoon.

Just piss off no one wants you here.

 

[Malifice]

I think the answers you seek are so obvious it isn't funny.

We are where we are largely due to a lack of funding being poored into our recruitment and development.

Sadly it took the best part of 3 decades for this to be rectified.

Really? I thought you guys were quite wealthy (or at least financially ok) off field?

Compare to Carlton for the last ten years. We were in debt up to our eyeballs.

 

[deledio7]

I wasn't putting your club down mate. The above are factual news issues affecting your club (and dealt with by your club). Carltons salary cap indiscretions and 'culture' was raised as a reason for Carlton to finish last this year by one of your posters. My response was more aimed along the lines that there isn't much of a difference between the 'cultures' of our two clubs as one would imagine.

Also, I wasn't the one raising salary cap issues, Judd being a mercenary, Fev being a tool etc. If you read above, I actually was trying to steer away from them as they aren't related to the topic of the thread.

However if posters do want to raise theses issues, at least raise them in context.

There is something you need to understand. This is our board, we will discuss whatever we want whatever way we want. It is not up to you to come on here and rebut against anything related to your club. If we did on your board it would be the last time we had the pleasure of posting on your sacred forum.

 

[Malifice]

Not trolling? I suppose bringing up Terry's tanking against St Kilda and Kane Johnsons urinating and Troy Taylor's assault are all relevant to a thread about the wooden spoon.

The above issues were relevant to the points directly raised by one of your Posters about Carlton winning the spoon this year (tanking, recruiting players with issues and culture).

 

[Malifice]

There is something you need to understand. This is our board, we will discuss whatever we want whatever way we want. It is not up to you to come on here and rebut against anything related to your club.

Rebuttals are allowed on our board. As long as they are topical and factual and in context of the thread/ point that is being rebutted.

You could (for example) post a Carlton players stats that demonstrated he (the player) was in fact a spud in response to a Carlton posters assertion that the player had a great game.

Just ranting about the player 'being a spud' in response might get you in trouble.

And of course starting a thread entitled 'Carlton player X is a spud" would would almost certainly get you in strife.

 

[jihg]

Really? I thought you guys were quite wealthy (or at least financially ok) off field?

Compare to Carlton for the last ten years. We were in debt up to our eyeballs.

Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[deledio7]

Rebuttals are allowed on our board. As long as they are topical and factual and in context of the thread/ point that is being rebutted.

You could (for example) post a Carlton players stats that demonstrated he (the player) was in fact a spud in response to a Carlton posters assertion that the player had a great game.

Just ranting about the player 'being a spud' in response might get you in trouble.

And of course starting a thread entitled 'Carlton player X is a spud" would would almost certainly get you in strife.

Ermmmmm.

 

[Malifice]

Ermmmmm.

Here is the post I was addressing/ rebutting:

Our upside however is much brighter than your tanking lot in the future.

Back to your culture........cheating & rorting the salary system until caught..........recruiting players with known problems that led to them stealing from team mates............don't start me on some of things fev has done.............to the greatest mercenary to ever play the game "Captain Judd". The eye gouger sat their and let his missus cop it from a drunken team mate for several hours and just smiled. (I would have decked him if he insulted my missus just once, but mighty Judd was to weak)........then surprise surprise more drunken antics post season with your great leader present again, starting to see a pattern here.

Man I am looking forward to round one this year so our list of "wooden spoon favourite" rookies can give your lot of tankers a run for their money.

Apparently these are the issues that this poster believed were responsible for Carton finishing last/ going to finish last this year.

I was merely pointing out that Richmond have similar issues.

Now back on point:

Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah. You guys are financially ok right?

I never considered lack of funds to be an issue at Tigerland.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

I never considered lack of funds to be an issue at Tigerland.

You are kidding right? Why do you think we have't been able to have more recruiting staff, or player development staff, or even friggin player counselling staff.

Unlike the rich clubs, we have for years been so much at a disadvantage it is scary. The draft system and salary goes some way to evening the playing field in our competition, but....it needs to go further.

If we had a rich dishonest businessman who who owned a business in our pocket, we could even probably lure J.Brown here with a cushy under the table paid job, which avoids the salary cap issues!

 

[jihg]

Yeah. You guys are financially ok right?

I never considered lack of funds to be an issue at Tigerland.

I don't know why I am bothering but Clinton Casey couldn't manage a root in a brothel and ran the lub poorly as a result we had no football department no recruiters, no development no nothing. It was shown in our poor reruiting and non-existent development add to that our reputation for firing coaches(which was deserved) coaches started to recruit to save their jobs not what was best for the club, supporters not totally blameless in this.

The coaching situation reached a peak when Malthouse turned Richmond down telling them he was staying put and then left West Coast and went to Collingwood the job was then offered to Mark Thompson who turned the club down and then proceeded to apply for the Geelong position it had gotten so bad that an assistant coach would knock back a certain job in order to take a hance elsewhere. Frawley was then appointed having been an assistant at the wooden spoon recceiving Collingwood. That was how low we had sunk in regards to coaches.

Not wanting to sound like a Wallace apologist but when he took over the coaching job he and Miller were our recruiters and development team. To much for two blokes to do and we saw that with some selections that were made but more so in our poor developing.

Once March came in he set about doing what was evidently needed first was Miller off the board and then out of the club and then it was a matter of seeing out Wallace's contract. However during this time he set about making money as well. Running the club at a profit that he then put back into the club.

We now have full time recruiters and development staff new facilities coming along. We have more rookies listed than we used to simply because we can afford them. We have a coach that was wanted by other clubs and is highly thought of. He has assitants that many regard as decent and possible future coaches.

Under casey and previous regimes this was simply not possible or done. In effecct the club has only really started to enter into being a professional football club just that we are doing it later than most other clubs.

Edit: Forgot to mention we also have a highly respected CEO in Brendan Gale as well.

 

[Malifice]

You are kidding right? Why do you think we have't been able to have more recruiting staff, or player development staff, or even friggin player counselling staff.

Unlike the rich clubs, we have for years been so much at a disadvantage it is scary. The draft system and salary goes some way to evening the playing field in our competition, but....it needs to go further.

I actually didn't consider Richmonds financial position as being that weak, or as being a major contributing factor for your current position.

Particularly when you consider that North have been quite successful despite low coin and facilities, and the Saints and Dogs arent exactly finacially secure clubs either.

Plus when you consider Carltons financial woes for the past decade it doesnt really add up.

I mean it might be a factor, but I wouldn't place it as the central problem.

If we had a rich dishonest businessman who who owned a business in our pocket, we could even probably lure J.Brown here with a cushy under the table paid job, which avoids the salary cap issues!

Wasn't there a recent issue with property deals involving Richmond players? It looked to be above board and all that, but surely it was being used as an 'incentive' to keep players at Punt road.

Freo and WCE use similar schemes.

 

[Morro]

Really? I thought you guys were quite wealthy (or at least financially ok) off field?

Compare to Carlton for the last ten years. We were in debt up to our eyeballs.

Nah mate, not by a long stretch of the imagination.

Up until last year we were so far behind most clubs it was frightening.

We finally have 3 full time recruiters, prior to this we had one.

That is pretty scary considering it is a national sport.

This is why our recruiting has had such a poor return, even with good draft picks.

Hope this explains a little to you as to why we get so pissed at cheap shots about our draft failures.

 

[Malifice]

I don't know why I am bothering but Clinton Casey couldn't manage a root in a brothel and ran the lub poorly as a result we had no football department no recruiters, no development no nothing. It was shown in our poor reruiting and non-existent development add to that our reputation for firing coaches(which was deserved) coaches started to recruit to save their jobs not what was best for the club, supporters not totally blameless in this.

The coaching situation reached a peak when Malthouse turned Richmond down telling them he was staying put and then left West Coast and went to Collingwood the job was then offered to Mark Thompson who turned the club down and then proceeded to apply for the Geelong position it had gotten so bad that an assistant coach would knock back a certain job in order to take a hance elsewhere. Frawley was then appointed having been an assistant at the wooden spoon recceiving Collingwood. That was how low we had sunk in regards to coaches.

Not wanting to sound like a Wallace apologist but when he took over the coaching job he and Miller were our recruiters and development team. To much for two blokes to do and we saw that with some selections that were made but more so in our poor developing.

Once March came in he set about doing what was evidently needed first was Miller off the board and then out of the club and then it was a matter of seeing out Wallace's contract. However during this time he set about making money as well. Running the club at a profit that he then put back into the club.

We now have full time recruiters and development staff new facilities coming along. We have more rookies listed than we used to simply because we can afford them. We have a coach that was wanted by other clubs and is highly thought of. He has assitants that many regard as decent and possible future coaches.

Under casey and previous regimes this was simply not possible or done. In effecct the club has only really started to enter into being a professional football club just that we are doing it later than most other clubs.

Edit: Forgot to mention we also have a highly respected CEO in Brendan Gale as well.

Good post.

We were a shambles post Elliot as well. I'm a firm believer that when things are right off the field, you tend towards better results on it.

FWIW, It'll take at least two or three more years, but Im actually positive for the first time in ages that you guys might be heading in the right direction.