Woosha

[Ian Dargie]

Put it like this. I've got a staff member who is adequate. He's OK at what he does, however, there are some areas that let him down and frustrate the bejesus out of me. I could look and find a better option, which would cause less frustration for me and perform the role better for our customers. In fact, I would be better off doing that, but....

But we already broadly know the names of the potential replacements. If Worsfold goes, it's pretty unlikely that he'll be replaced by someone from way out of left-field.

So, with that list of names in mind, who would you prefer?

 

[swannies]

But I've done this already.

Worsfold's record is not so bad that he absolutely must go. It therefore becomes a question of whether we think there is someone obviously better-equipped to coach the team. And that brings us back to my question about who you think should replace him.

People don't have to have a name in mind Dargs. Look at my analogy of my employee, I don't have a name in mind, I think I could get a better option though, without having any names.
It all comes back to measurement of KPIs. The eagles were expecting to challenge for top 4 or higher, they are challenging for bottom 6. Should the coach be held accountable, or not? That is the question. If the Eagles believe the coach is accountable, or at least largely accountable, then they could say we don't have the name of a better option but we are going to go to the market.

 

[Boohemian]

OK. So if we sacked Worsfold and appointed Mark Neeld. You'd be happy with that?

Wow, this is what I've been looking for. Some REAL MELODRAMA

 

[flamingEMBERS]

My argument is that those calling for Worsfold to go need to have something sensible to say about who should replace him.

If you don't grasp this, then that says more about you than it does about me.

Why do you support the Eagles if you wish to accept mediocrity?

 

[swannies]

OK. So if we sacked Worsfold and appointed Mark Neeld. You'd be happy with that?

Neeld may actually be successful in a different, structured, stable environment. Don't necessarily judge him on the debacle that is Melbourne.

 

[ChampRevesby]

Why do you support the Eagles if you wish to accept mediocrity?

Falling in line with club policy. Now that's a true fan.

 

[illegaleagle]

Why do you support the Eagles if you wish to accept mediocrity?

worsfold is mediocre, id give burns a year, whilst looking for a better option possibly throughout next year for other coaches and if burns does well extend his contract.

 

[Ian Dargie]

People don't have to have a name in mind Dargs.

They have to have some notion of how our situation would be improved by replacing the coach. If they want change, they have to have something to say about the what happens after Worsfold goes.

Otherwise, it's like the Underpants Gnomes.

Phase One is sacking the coach and Phase Three is doing better in 2014. But what's Phase Two? Who's the new coach?

Look at my analogy of my employee, I don't have a name in mind, I think I could get a better option though, without having any names.

Of course you wouldn't have a name in mind - that's because you've likely never met the person you'd end up hiring. But for West Coast's coaching job, we do know the names of those most likely. And people who want to replace Worsfold should be able to make a case for at least one of them.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Why do you support the Eagles if you wish to accept mediocrity?

I always think it's funny when fans talk about accepting or not accepting mediocrity, as though their mindset has some kind of flow-on effect.

What you or I think about the coach is of zero actual consequence. You can 'not accept it' as much as you like. It has no implications.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Neeld may actually be successful in a different, structured, stable environment. Don't necessarily judge him on the debacle that is Melbourne.

I'm just putting a name out there.

That poster suggested "anybody" would be better than Worsfold, which strikes me as unnecessarily rash.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Wow, this is what I've been looking for. Some REAL MELODRAMA

Have you figured out what incumbent means yet?

In your condescension, you revealed your own ignorance. Oops. Another try-hard on the bonfire. Better luck next time, champ.

Maybe you could use one of these to get up to speed.

 

[Masto]

Neeld may actually be successful in a different, structured, stable environment. Don't necessarily judge him on the debacle that is Melbourne.

No chance we would ever sign him up as head coach.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Of course you wouldn't have a name in mind - that's because you've likely never met the person you'd end up hiring. But for West Coast's coaching job, we do know the names of those most likely. And people who want to replace Worsfold should be able to make a case for at least one of them.

Ahhhh see West Coast and we know the names, so we are hiring. I thought the club hires.

Adam Simpson is highly regarded at Hawthorn and has been there since 2010. He was a smart footballer during his time at North where he captained the side for 6 seasons and played over 300 games. He was also a dual Premiership player.

So what was the process in 2001 when we sacked Judge. We terminated his contract with a year remaining. $HIT we didn't have a coach for a few months. What the heck did we do with ourselves?

I'll tell you. We remained calm. Put out a job advert. Got applicants from around the country wanting to coach our great club and eventually we netted an untried coach. One that eventually netted us a Premiership. So Ian Dargie should we do the same process or wait until Woosha falls off a cliff (because I would push him).

 

[Dark Sharks]

Don't bother people, Dargie is pulling his usual trick of "arguing until everyone goes to sleep so i win"

 

[eagles rule]

The best candidate that applies for the job, whether that be Adam Simpson, Blake Caracella, Paul Roos or Rodney Eade. I am positive that we will get the best candidates apply and the board will choose the best one. However I don't really want Scott Burns. I believe a coach should come from outside of our system and do what Malthouse did to us in the 90s and what Lyon is doing currently at Freo. I really want a coach who is going to come in and tell some 'Home Truths' to some players and get our players playing together for the jumper. Something I haven't seen all year.

have heard that Eade will be offered Melb coaching job ..

 

[Lucky Luc]

FFS you win , I cant be bothered arguing someone that's this blind.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Ahhhh see West Coast and we know the names, so we are hiring. I thought the club hires.

That's right - the club does the hiring. How does that stop you from making a comment about the candidates?

Is this another instance where you think you've made a point but are actually swinging at fresh air?

Adam Simpson is highly regarded at Hawthorn and has been there since 2010. He was a smart footballer during his time at North where he captained the side for 6 seasons and played over 300 games. He was also a dual Premiership player.

OK. You've read his wikipedia entry. Great job.

Does this mean you want the club to sack Worsfold and appoint Adam Simpson?

So what was the process in 2001 when we sacked Judge. We terminated his contract with a year remaining. $HIT we didn't have a coach for a few months. What the heck did we do with ourselves?

I'll tell you. We remained calm. Put out a job advert. Got applicants from around the country wanting to coach our great club and eventually we netted an untried coach. One that eventually netted us a Premiership. So Ian Dargie should we do the same process or wait until Woosha falls off a cliff (because I would push him).

I have a couple of thoughts on this.

First, you could argue that Judge was a bit unlucky. He had undertaken a rebuilding project which ultimately worked out pretty well. But he wasn't given time to see it through.

Second, the reasons he wasn't allowed to see it through weren't only about on-field performance, which, in 2001, was much worse than anything in the past three years. Some posters on here will have more of a grasp on the details but I'm not sure Judge ever won the full confidence of the club behind the scenes. He also blotted his copybook by bringing in recycled players that didn't work out. That made his life much tougher.

Third, Judge was ultimately done in because we had a couple of other candidates we were keen on. One was Neil Craig, who went on and did a pretty solid job at the Crows. The other candidate was a former premiership captain loved and respected at the club, who had done an apprenticeship at Carlton. At the moment, there is no Worsfold equivalent waiting in the wings.

So there are some important differences between the last days of Judge and now.

 

[Ian Dargie]

FFS you win , I cant be bothered arguing someone that's this blind.

Don't kid yourself. Whether or not you 'can be bothered' isn't the issue. The problem is that you've only filled in the first half of the equation and are throwing your toys out of the pram when someone points that out.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Don't bother people, Dargie is pulling his usual trick of "arguing until everyone goes to sleep so i win"

Did someone hurt you?

 

[flamingEMBERS]

That's right - the club does the hiring. How does that stop you from making a comment about the candidates?

Is this another instance where you think you've made a point but are actually swinging at fresh air?

OK. You've read his wikipedia entry. Great job.

Does this mean you want the club to sack Worsfold and appoint Adam Simpson?

I have a couple of thoughts on this.

First, you could argue that Judge was a bit unlucky. He had undertaken a rebuilding project which ultimately worked out pretty well. But he wasn't given time to see it through.

Second, the reasons he wasn't allowed to see it through weren't only about on-field performance, which, in 2001, was much worse than anything in the past three years. Some posters on here will have more of a grasp on the details but I'm not sure Judge ever won the full confidence of the club behind the scenes. He also blotted his copybook by bringing in recycled players that didn't work out. That made his life much tougher.

Third, Judge was ultimately done in because we had a couple of other candidates we were keen on. One was Neil Craig, who went on and did a pretty solid job at the Crows. The other candidate was a former premiership captain loved and respected at the club, who had done an apprenticeship at Carlton. At the moment, there is no Worsfold equivalent waiting in the wings.

So there are some important differences between the last days of Judge and now.

So we have to be keen on other coaches then to oust ours?
The bit about Judge and recycled players rings true with Woosha keeping some average cattle on the park over the last few years.

You asked me to name a coach and I did. Do you want me to personally ring all of Adam Simpsons referees and report back to you?

Your a moron, go back to where you've been the last 6 months.

 

[CursoryMercenary]

his winning percentage since Judd and Cousins left is 43.8% to put that in perspective.
Terry Wallace at Richmond in 4.5 years 37.8%
Chris Connelly in 6 years 51.2%
Michael Voss in 5 years 40%
Danny Frawley in 5 years 39.8%

He doesn't deserve to coach the team based on the performance of the team over the last 6 years. As these other teams realised, change is needed.

Ian Dargie

This is why he shouldn't coach beyond this season. That's a pathetic record in 6 years, no other club would keep a coach with such a poor record over that amount of time. Apart from coaching a side with a dream midfield during 05-07 which resulted in a flag win by a point and getting the forward press to work for one and a bit years what other evidence is there that he is the man to take us forward again?

 

[E Shed]

But I've done this already.

Worsfold's record is not so bad that he absolutely must go. It therefore becomes a question of whether we think there is someone obviously better-equipped to coach the team. And that brings us back to my question about who you think should replace him.

The bottom line is that Worsfold may still be our best option. His overall record and the list of possible replacements suggests that is not beyond the pale.

How would punters on a footy board know this? Thats what professional people who run footy clubs are for. To invite applications and assess the candidates. Just mindlessly repeating the same thing (who should be coach) over and over like you do is not an argument. There is not a satisfactory answer to be had speculating on the internet. The point is that the majority of people here feel its time for change.
Its not that hard to understand.

 

[Ian Dargie]

So we have to be keen on other coaches then to oust ours?

If the club wants to sack the coach, then sure, I'd expect them to have some idea of who could take over.

The bit about Judge and recycled players rings true with Woosha keeping some average cattle on the park over the last few years.

Maybe you need to go back and look at some of the players Judge brought in. Worsfold never did anything like that.

You realise that we finished 4th and 5th in 2011-12, right?

You asked me to name a coach and I did. Do you want me to personally ring all of Adam Simpsons referees and report back to you?

No - I just want to clarify that by naming Simpson, you are actually endorsing him as Worsfold's replacement. Or are you just naming him for fun?

Your a moron, go back to where you've been the last 6 months.

Have a little cry. And then tell us about how our midfield doesn't need to improve to win a flag. That's strikes me as more moronic than anything I've said here.

 

[Ian Dargie]

How would punters on a footy board know this?

What do you mean? Why wouldn't people have an idea of who they'd like to take over?

If they have no idea, it doesn't make much sense for them to be demanding the current coach be sacked.

Just mindlessly repeating the same thing (who should be coach) over and over like you do is not an argument.

No - it's a straightforward question that people should be willing to answer if they want Worsfold sacked.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

If the club wants to sack the coach, then sure, I'd expect them to have some idea of who could take over.

Maybe you need to go back and look at some of the players Judge brought in. Worsfold never did anything like that.

You realise that we finished 4th and 5th in 2011-12, right?

No - I just want to clarify that by naming Simpson, you are actually endorsing him as Worsfold's replacement. Or are you just naming him for fun?

Have a little cry. And then tell us about how our midfield doesn't need to improve to win a flag. That's strikes me as more moronic than anything I've said here.

Worsfold has brought in JON, Cale Morton, Brad Dick, Bradd Dalziel from other clubs whilst holding on to players such as ASelwood and Embley. Not to mention when he kept playing Hansen over Kennedy for two years. Is this the part you tell me he isn't the list manager?

If Simpson applied and the club believed he was the best candidate I would love for Adam Simpson to coach us. If after the process the club believed otherwise then I would then back their decision.

We are talking about Worsfold not being up to the job. Not our midfield. Not specifically who should get the job. But JOHN WORSFOLD not being good enough.