Would PANTS get in the Hall of Fame...

[tdubfleet]

Lets not forget that ablett was never convicted in a court of Law.

He couldn't be convicted because only two people know what happened, one is dead the other refused to give evidence beacause he would have incriminated himself.

Yes, you are correct that he was never convicted, but it is grasping at straws if you think that qualifies him on the character and integrity criteria for selection.

 

[skipper kelly]

What will be undermined is the basis on which selelction is made.....

please explain what part of the criteria Ablett misses out on.

 

[Ipaidmy200in89]

He couldn't be convicted because only two people know what happened, one is dead the other refused to give evidence beacause he would have incriminated himself.

Yes, you are correct that he was never convicted, but it is grasping at straws if you think that qualifies him on the character and integrity criteria for selection.

I wish I had said that.....

Thank you!

 

[FuManchu]

The HALL of FAME will reflect it, come Monday!

What will be undermined is the basis on which selelction is made.....

The only integrity under question now will be the integrity of the selelction criteria......which was Eddie's point last night.......

I agree with Eddie, I also think that they have the wrong criteria in which to honour a footballers standing in relation to his on field presence.

Get rid of the integrity bit, because how do you measure integrity? Whats to say that malicious acts on the filed are worse, or not worse than negligent acts off the field. Yet we have that situation arising here. I'm sure as wrong as Ablett was, in what happened, was it intentional or negligent? I think it was negligence. Yet Matthews act on Bruns was intentional and designed to harm.

So unless we have a measure of intent, then how can we truly judge integrity?

 

[marcuz]

Yes, you are correct that he was never convicted, but it is grasping at straws if you think that qualifies him on the character and integrity criteria for selection.

So the selction panel is a better moral judge than a cout of law? This is why the character and Integrity part of the criteria is so dodgy..it needs to be changed.

 

[Ipaidmy200in89]

please explain what part of the criteria Ablett misses out on.

You tell me which one's he fulfills....

 

[Hoola Hoops]

You happy with Abletts role in the death of that young girl?

Give him a medal

The state is certainly not happy with it!

He is luck not to be behind bars.

You seriously have low standards!

If you think that I condone his actions you are mistaken.

I now the differnce between right and wrong! People who do questionable things or the wrong things have a level of character that I certainly don't want to be invloved in....

You say you know the difference between right and wrong. That's good, so do I. But I will never say that I have never done anything wrong, and therefore do not cast judgement on others wrongs.

Can you?

 

[Hoola Hoops]

You tell me which one's he fulfills....

Never seen a game of Ablett playing? Now you are acting silly. Remain mature about this topic please ffs.

 

[Ipaidmy200in89]

I agree with Eddie, I also think that they have the wrong criteria in which to honour a footballers standing in relation to his on field presence.

Get rid of the integrity bit, because how do you measure integrity? Whats to say that malicious acts on the filed are worse, or not worse than negligent acts off the field. Yet we have that situation arising here. I'm sure as wrong as Ablett was, in what happened, was it intentional or negligent? I think it was negligence. Yet Matthews act on Bruns was intentional and designed to harm.

So unless we have a measure of intent, then how can we truly judge integrity?

Common sense.....

 

[Hoola Hoops]

The only integrity under question now will be the integrity of the selelction criteria......which was Eddie's point last night.......

My point exactly.

 

[skipper kelly]

You tell me which one's he fulfills....

have you read the criteria?

 

[Ipaidmy200in89]

Give him a medal



If you think that I condone his actions you are mistaken.



You say you know the difference between right and wrong. That's good, so do I. But I will never say that I have never done anything wrong, and therefore do not cast judgement on others wrongs.

Can you?

Mate I jay walk, if I find five dollars on the ground I keep it instead of handing it in, I speed a little sometimes, I once drank a beer when I was seventeen, I cheated at scrabble last x-mas so I could go to bed......

Hardly the same as taking drugs......belting pizza delievery men.......


Hang on....you are right, he is a pillar of the community.....

 

[FuManchu]

Common sense.....

and by whose measure is that assessed? The only true assesment of a footballer in relation to football, is his footballing ability.

If they want to reward a player for deeds off the field, then do so as well. But Ablett was a champion footballer and I hevent heard anyone say he wasnt, but there are some that would have him not recognised as a champion footballer because he is also a flawed character off the field. Doesnt make sense at all.

 

[Ipaidmy200in89]

have you read the criteria?

Yes, I was wondering if you had.......

Integrity he misses......

Character he also misses.

 

[MarkT]

Ipaidmy200in89,

Firstly if you murder someone it isn't the same as J-Walking and shouldn't have the same regard when considering a HOF admission even if you accept the criteria AND that failure of one means ineligibility which in itself is a silly notion IMI. Secondly length or service has to have an impact because it will invariably affect impact on the game and achievements. Thirdly, Millane didn’t actually do anything that would prevent entry on any reasonable analysis unless you have something not in the public domain. Drink driving and killing himself in the process sure isn't that smart an idea and a bit of hi-jinx on a buss after a few jars isn't something I'd recommend if you want Canonisation but it's hardly stuff to send to the war crimes tribunal.

 

[Hoola Hoops]

Mate I jay walk, if I find five dollars on the ground I keep it instead of handing it in, I speed a little sometimes, I once drank a beer when I was seventeen, I cheated at scrabble last x-mas so I could go to bed......

So who are you to judge?

Hardly the same as taking drugs......belting pizza delievery men.......


Hang on....you are right, he is a pillar of the community.....

Where has anyone said that??

 

[marcuz]

Yes, I was wondering if you had.......

Integrity he misses......

Character he also misses.

What about the other 3?

 

[tdubfleet]

So the selction panel is a better moral judge than a cout of law?

The finding from the case had nothing to do with morals, just facts. The outcome from memory was that Ableet didn't kill her as such, he was just to bombed out to save her life.

If that doesn't bring a persons character into question I do not know what would.

This is why the character and Integrity part of the criteria is so dodgy..it needs to be changed.

Absolutely.

By the way, as a footballer Ablett must be in, as for the character and integrity issue no way in the world. This whole issue is trivial compared to the fact a young women lost her life.

 

[Dogwatcher]

Millane wouldn't get in because he didn't play long and therefore didn’t achieve enough anyway let alone arguments over how good he was. It’s a pretty silly example on every level except the one aimed at pulling the rug from under Eddie.

I agree in total.

In these circumstances Jimmy Krakoeur would be a better example.
JK will come up at some point for nomination, if he hasn't already, due to the trailblazing role he and his brother made as Aboriginals in the game.

Gary Ablett's admission to the Hall of Fame does not end the debate, like some people assume it will, it will only stoke the fires for when further nominations are discussed.

 

[Ipaidmy200in89]

and by whose measure is that assessed? The only true assesment of a footballer in relation to football, is his footballing ability.

If they want to reward a player for deeds off the field, then do so as well. But Ablett was a champion footballer and I hevent heard anyone say he wasnt, but there are some that would have him not recognised as a champion footballer because he is also a flawed character off the field. Doesnt make sense at all.

So if he happened to kill your parents while drink driving who'd welcome him into the Hall of Fame....

Or maybe if he contributed to the death of your daughter.....would you feel the same....

I know this is a difficult subject.....but it is a debate worth having!

 

[Hoola Hoops]

The finding from the case had nothing to do with morals, just facts. The outcome from memory was that Ableet didn't kill her as such, he was just to bombed out to save her life.

If that doesn't bring a persons character into question I do not know what would.



Absolutely.

By the way, as a footballer Ablett must be in, as for the character and integrity issue no way in the world. This whole issue is trivial compared to the fact a young women lost her life.

Are you perfect? If not then STFU.

 

[crackers57]

So the selction panel is a better moral judge than a cout of law? QUOTE]

Maybe it is because a Court of Law is not there to make moral judgements.

 

[Ipaidmy200in89]

What about the other 3?

Footy based criteria he is easily in!

 

[pazza]

Look at John Nicholls.

He actually has a criminal conviction, yet no-one at all is doubting his place in the hall of fame are they?

Look at the criteria. It says a person nominated has to have integrity. There aren't too many players who own up to reportable incidents at the tribunal. Ablett did.

As for Millane, well in terms of ability, he was special. Shame he didn't really play enough games in his career or was dominant enough in the majority of the games he played.

For me, I'd love to see 300-gamer Garry Foulds get a nomination. Takes a lot to play 300 games. He may not have set the world on fire, but, he kept playing and has since given back a lot to the game, with his local footy coaching roles.

 

[Ipaidmy200in89]

Are you perfect? If not then STFU.

You need to pull your head in.....

One more STFU and I will be asking for you to be suspended....