Xavier Ellis

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I think the biggest problem for Ellis is the steps forward Tuck and Ossie have taken, and the massive impression Rioli and Stokes have made.

Some players just need more time and Ellis seems to be one of them. I expect that if we have a fully fit team Ellis will be fighting for a spot on the bench, not the Joel Smith replacement role on a HBF that was proposed at the end of last season.
 
Great thread. I'm not too sure what to say about X and I think it's far far too early to be making difinitive judgements. But I'd like to make a couple of points:

- I like many on the list I expect great things (perhaps too much) from such a high draft pick and there was a lot of hype preseason about how well he was travelling on the track. To me, he doesn't look any faster or fitter than last year and he cramped badly in the first game when he'd been playing off the bench and appeared to have run about a quarter as far as Changa or Mitch or Birch or plenty of other guys. Now perhaps I'm expecting too much cos it was his first full preseason but I was disappointed. Footy today is all about running and I've never seen him hurt a side with his. If he's ever going to be an elite player, this will have to change.

- X just doesn't look big enough or tough enough. I'm not saying he's soft, but he he doesn't look "cut". In the 80s no one would have noticed, but when you compare him physically with someone like Tucky, well it looks a mismatch.

- X has a slightly laconic manner - like Dal Santo. If he dominates it'll make him look great. Otherwise it can make him look slow.

- reliable sources say x is a quality fella. Perhaps he's trying to hard and just needs to let it happen. He's only 20.

It's too early to judge, but I think he's struggling a tad and I think AC, god bless him, wants to (and should) support his man.
 
Collins-Langford-Ayres said:
I think the biggest problem for Ellis is the steps forward Tuck and Ossie have taken, and the massive impression Rioli and Stokes have made.

Some players just need more time and Ellis seems to be one of them. I expect that if we have a fully fit team Ellis will be fighting for a spot on the bench, not the Joel Smith replacement role on a HBF that was proposed at the end of last season.
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Great point. the incredible improvement of tuck, rioli and stokes is unusual. X is still young (20?) and many of our club's great champions took till their mid 20s to really arrive. We must have perspective and be patient.

And finally, he's a good smotherer, and I always reckon that's a great sign of somone working in the right direction. God knows we've had a few players on our list who've made an art form of pretending to smother but never actually making contact with the ball and their fingers.
 

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Poor kid.

22 touches, one official clanger (Hodge 5, Young 5, Dew 4, Mitchell 2).

He's on track.

I'd much rather he came along a little "slowly" like he is, with no fanfare. Pendlebury has good year last year, now finds himself tagged (or at least watched a lot, lot closer) in the first two rounds, and has shown he can't handle it so far.
 
I also have just watched the replay taking a special notice of Ellis due to this thread.

IMHO he played a good game. Made a couple of clangers but overall his disposal by hand and foot were pretty good.

He made a good tackle that resulted in a free kick, also made a timely smother near the Freo forward line. He kicked two beautifully weighted kicks to Roughy and Boyle that unfortunately they missed etc. etc.

It's the little things that he does that we don't see during the course of the game compared to other players. I don't think he will be as flashy as a Thomas or Pendlebury but he will do the team things well and will only get better and confident as the year goes on.

Give the kid a break. Ellis will be a very good player of us and justify his high pick in the draft.
 
Grooves said:
Poor kid.

22 touches, one official clanger (Hodge 5, Young 5, Dew 4, Mitchell 2).

He's on track.

I'd much rather he came along a little "slowly" like he is, with no fanfare. Pendlebury has good year last year, now finds himself tagged (or at least watched a lot, lot closer) in the first two rounds, and has shown he can't handle it so far.
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Excellent point. :thumbsu:

He is obviously taking longer than expected to develop, but thats nt a problem because we have so many others who have developed much quicker than expected.

Patience. We've become very good at excersizing patience over the last 5 years, just a little more... :)
 
Hi guys,

I think Ellis should have a run in the two's. If we want to play in the finals with quality skills Ellis has to lift his game. I feel his too slow for the game, don't get me wrong I love this guys I recon his going to be a faboulas player in the future. But rite now his fumbling at crucial moments. Now you could imagine if the game went down to the wire and he stuffed up and he cost us the game how bad would he feel. I think he needs to find his feet in the two's cos you seriously can't drop any other player on the list they have all lifted there game.
 
Ellis will learn more playing in the "ones" than Box Hill. The sooner he clocks up the experience the better. Some blokes do not develope strength at the same age. Give X time and it will be rewarded. In his FIFTEENTH game you want him to dominate. Lets go with the coach on this one, by years end everyone will be singing his praises.
 
Players need to earn there spot in the team. If you want to judge Ellis's form compared to the other 22 players on the list well we all could say based on current form he is not in hawthorns best 22. Look at Travis Tuck his gun plays 2 games and its like his played 100 games, he has all this confidence. The X needs to have a ran in the two's earn some respect and come back and prove me wrong.

I agree players need time, but in the two's!!!
 
I like many others are concerned about the development of Ellis. i was hoping Ellis would be developing along the lines of Del Santo but as someone accurately highlighted earlier at the same stage Hodge had shown less than Ellis.

He is 20 and has plenty of time.
 
Smiggs Pig said:
I like many others are concerned about the development of Ellis. i was hoping Ellis would be developing along the lines of Del Santo but as someone accurately highlighted earlier at the same stage Hodge had shown less than Ellis.
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From my memory in his first year Hodge came to the club with OP, did little pre-season, debuted about round 5, was asked to play on the half-forward flank by Schwab, got dropped back to the VFL, came back as a half-back flanker and finished sixth in the B&F, including getting more votes than any other Hawthorn player in the 2nd half of the year. Hodge showed a bit early.

And Ellis looks like he will be a very good player.
 
I am not an Ellis fan to date but I though Clarko put things in perspective pretty well on Footy Classified in a pretty simple comment when he said that Ellis copped a knock in the head in the Melbourne game but came back on.

He is doing it pretty hard Ellis - gets smashed many times each game and is certainly learning the hard way - which is Clarko's way. He is fighting for survival when he is on the field as a skinny kid who can't really have a great influence on the game but knows what is going on out there. Playing him is no doubt the best thing for his development and really based on his body size I don't think we can expect him to be an A-grader until 2010.

You cannot argue that he is 'ready' at the moment. He is punching well out of his weight but learning a hell of a lot at the same time. He doesn't have the pace of a Dale Thomas or Cyril to get out of trouble from day 1. His skill is being in the right place at the right time and when he has the ball he is ok without being daring (does take the easy option and refuses to have a shot a goal but will grow in confidence over time). When he is in a one on one, he is there at the right time but has no physical presence over the ball or tackling in most cases so gets smashed.

The issue for Hawthorn is where we are at and the crunch decision will be made at some point during the season.

Simply it will be - can we afford Ellis to lose a one on one contest and therefore risk losing the game or do we need a hard body at the contest to maximise our chances of winning the game?

Depending on where we are at on the ladder will have a massive influence on this. Can we afford to carry him which will be a great for him and the club come 2010 perhaps when our premiership window will be wide open or is the moment now - 2008??
 

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Whats this lot of trash?
Hawthorn supporters fighting? Un-Hawthorn like.
We are all Hawks supporters, act like it. We are supposed to be a COMMUNITY people!! It simply disgusts me. And over Xavier Ellis's game, we won people! He was part of it. Build a bridge.
 
I think many of you are impatient and a bit harsh on young Xavier.

Physically, he is never going to be 'ripped' but neither is Dale Thomas or Clinton Young, doesn't mean he can't be a top line player.

He reminds me so much of Gary Buckenara - he can kick, he is reasonable in traffic, if anything he lacks confidence but this will come with time.

Give him another preseason and I think he can become a regular in our starting 18. Remember, he missed 1 season with school/foot, so last year was his first real crack. Another 12-16 games this season, a good preseason and I reckon 2009 will be a breakout year for the X-Man.
 
I thought onballers were supposed to develop faster than KPPs - especially high draft picks. I like Ellis but I dont think he will ever be the star that we expect from a #3 draft pick.

I think that Clarko and Pelch may have just had a bad year in the draft, getting him and Dowler which was a bigger mistake - and going for Muston who was injured. At least we got Birch I think in that draft but maybe we got it a bit wrong that year.
 
Chrissie90 said:
I thought onballers were supposed to develop faster than KPPs - especially high draft picks. I like Ellis but I dont think he will ever be the star that we expect from a #3 draft pick.
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Godard did nothing untill last year, unfortunatly he did his knee. What pick was he? And how long did it take him to develop?

Stereotypes do not always fit the mould.
 
Well said Crissie,:thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu:

I totally agree with you, both Dowler and Ellis aren't as good as what people really think. You think players drafted so early in the top 10 would shine by now. For me, he hasn't shined. The only time I saw Ellis play well was the NAB game early on this year against Adelaide.
 
GoBuddy said:
Well said Crissie,:thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu:

I totally agree with you, both Dowler and Ellis aren't as good as what people really think. You think players drafted so early in the top 10 would shine by now. For me, he hasn't shined. The only time I saw Ellis play well was the NAB game early on this year against Adelaide.
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Its the blokes 2nd year essentially and you want to write him off?

"Hey X man, you have taken over Smiths position on the field, and the whipping boy off the field. congrats mate".

Jesus threads like this shit me. Even Richmond fans have more faith in Tambling then we do in Ellis. If this guy was 25, in the peak of his career I would be worried, but right now in ROUND 2 of all places I do not have a care in the world.

You better have some pants of steel because this thread will bite alot of people in the ass.
 
Roughie said:
Its the blokes 2nd year essentially and you want to write him off?

"Hey X man, you have taken over Smiths position on the field, and the whipping boy off the field. congrats mate".

Jesus threads like this shit me. Even Richmond fans have more faith in Tambling then we do in Ellis. If this guy was 25, in the peak of his career I would be worried, but right now in ROUND 2 of all places I do not have a care in the world.

You better have some pants of steel because this thread will bite alot of people in the ass.
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Exactly mu thoughts. He did paly well on the weekend, 22 possesions if i rememeber correctly. Lets not forget he did not play in his first year becasue of school commitments. He will be a very good player and is already a solid contributor.

Tuck = overrated on this board
Ellis = underrated on this board.
 
I rate the boy...

I would like to see a little bit more arrogance and mongrel creep into his game.

With arrogance, i mean back himself in, and have belief in his ability. I think he kinda sits back and worries to much. Take them on, but be smart about it. Dont sit in your shell.

Mongrel, not alot of weight to throw around but when the opportunity is there, give someone your best hip and shoulder or make them earn it. Thomas is slight in stature but is courageous as hell. I'd like to see Xav follow L Power's game.
 
Bob Marley said:
X.Ellis isnt even close to getting dropped.
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Not with our current injury list and suspensions.

Once we have Crawford, Lewis, Hodge, Sewell, Mitchell, Bateman, McGlynn, Osborne, Tuck running through the middle, and Croad back... someone would have to go, and I would think it'd the guys who aren't as well developed.

There is nothing wrong with saying Xavier has got some work to do. He's a long term prospect, and people say when he was drafted that he is going to need 3-5 pre-seasons to impact where he is capable of. Still early days for him, and this year with us wanting to be contenders, I think he's on the fringe at this stage considering the form of others.
 

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