York Park vs Bellerive Oval

[TigerFan]

as part of my university studies, I'm going to be researching and then writing about the 'North/South divide' of Tasmanian football - focusing in particular on the political struggle between the State Government and AFL Tasmania, and also on the parochialism that seems to exist within the Northern and Southern Tasmanian football communities.

basically, the biggest issue in recent Tasmanian football history seems to have been the debate on which venue is most appropriate to host AFL football - York Park or Bellerive Oval. so, I want to know your views on the issue.

therefore, I'm conducting a poll on which venue YOU think is best suited to AFL football.

some factors you might want to consider include:

- player facilities
- spectator facilities
- geographic location

and any other factor you consider to be important when making your decision.


there are only two options in this poll (which reflects my view that there are only two viable venues for AFL football in Tasmania - if you have a differing view, express it), and the poll results will be used later down the track.


furthermore, if you think you have something interesting to say on the issue, say it. we might even get a half decent thread of it this.

anyway, vote!

 

[TigerFan]

for the record, I voted for York Park due to its infrastructure and geographic centrality

 

[Toadfooty]

Im going to say Bellerive. Good capacity, easy to get to location and not right in the bustle of the city. It has also held top class cricket there and is a pleasure to watch from.

 

[Devilcat]

Bellerive. Hobart is the capital city of Tas, and has more than half the states population living within it. The only reason York Park was developed over Bellerive for AFL football was because the Labor government felt it was weak in the north and last election made massive promises to the Launceston people. The facilities, and playing surface at Bellerive are the best at any ground in TAS.
The only problem is the local residents. Parking has and most likely will always be a problem at Bellerive. I say destroy the park behind it and build right up to the beach. Lets get some parking in. I'm not interested in parking up near Howrah Primary just to see a game of football.

 

[Oh Furious One]

York Park, clearly.

 

[Devilcat]

Alternatively, the newly elected Labor government instead of spending millions to get an extra World Cup cricket game at Bellerive
(which would probably go towards paying the salaries of beuraucrats who will sit around discussing what to do next), should put some dollars on the table and do something constructive as far as Bellerive is concerned. The ground is already good enough for cricket, but if we want to host AFL games we need a bit more work done. Parking facilities ideally.
As for all the Launceston ppl saying 'what about us'? I say STFU. You live in Launceston. Hobart is the capital city and Tassie's AFL base should be in Hobart. OMG!! WA's two football bases are both in the Perth Metropolitan area. What about the poor residents of Karratha or Wyndham? How will they ever get to see an AFL game? Tough. You live in the middle of nowhere - in this case (Laumceston). You guys tried to be the capital, but did not succeed. Go bird watching at the gorge or something. Anyway, my point being, AFL football should be played in Hobart.

* ALSO * AFL footballers could not possibly perform at optimum levels at York Park. Launceston (city of 60k people?) has the worst air quality of any city in Australia. Launceston is in all seriousness one big hole, and all the smoke from the woodheaters, which Launceston's residents will not stop using (despite all the government incentives to convert to a cleaner source of heating), just sits smack bang in the middle of that hole.

 

[Devilcat]

PS. Drink Cascade, not Bogues.

 

[Toadfooty]

Play the game drink midstrength and dont be a hero!

 

[TigerFan]

geez, compelling argument Devilcat

let's start at the top...

Bellerive. Hobart is the capital city of Tas, and has more than half the states population living within it.

the population of Tasmania is 485,000 - 200,000 of those people in the greater Hobart area. that's barely two-fifths of the population, let alone half.

The only reason York Park was developed over Bellerive for AFL football was because the Labor government felt it was weak in the north and last election made massive promises to the Launceston people.

it is a commonly held view that the State Government tried to 'buy' votes in the Bass electorate by developing York Park, but that doesn't necessarily mean they made the wrong call in doing so.

York Park is the most central location for ALL Tasmanian residents (over 55% of Tasmania's population is based in the Northern region). Hobart might have the largest settled population, but it is at least 2-4 hours away from over 250,000 Tasmanians. Launceston is only 2 hours away from all of Tasmania's main centres.

The facilities, and playing surface at Bellerive are the best at any ground in TAS.

wrong. York Park's surface is held in extremely high esteem by the football community - some even regard it as the best surface in Australia.

and now we get to the bit where you start to lose the battle...

The only problem is the local residents. Parking has and most likely will always be a problem at Bellerive. I say destroy the park behind it and build right up to the beach. Lets get some parking in. I'm not interested in parking up near Howrah Primary just to see a game of football.

Bellerive Oval is based in a largely residential area. there little to no room for expansion, and even you have recognised the ridiculous parking situation at the ground.

York Park is based within the Inveresk industrial complex. there's room for expansion in every foreseeable direction, there's adequate parking facilities right next to the ground and there's no need to get planning permits just to bring it all up to scratch.

as for the actual stands and corporate facilities, there doesn't appear to be anything that sets either ground apart from the other. York Park's official capacity is 5000 above that of Bellerive Oval, its highest crowd figure is 2000 more than Bellerive Oval (19000 vs 16719), and York Park's capacity and facilities seem to be getting better every year - not that they really needed to.

at best, they're equal. at worst, one could easily argue that York Park is a better facility.

Alternatively, the newly elected Labor government instead of spending millions to get an extra World Cup cricket game at Bellerive
(which would probably go towards paying the salaries of beuraucrats who will sit around discussing what to do next), should put some dollars on the table and do something constructive as far as Bellerive is concerned. The ground is already good enough for cricket, but if we want to host AFL games we need a bit more work done. Parking facilities ideally.

this thread isn't about what the state government should do to help Bellerive Oval, this is about which ground is better - right here, right now. you've just acknowledged that Bellerive Oval needs work to bring it up to AFL standard, and your argument is virtually null and void from this point forward because York Park is well and truly up to AFL standard.

but I'll finish you off anyway...

As for all the Launceston ppl saying 'what about us'? I say STFU. You live in Launceston. Hobart is the capital city and Tassie's AFL base should be in Hobart. OMG!! WA's two football bases are both in the Perth Metropolitan area. What about the poor residents of Karratha or Wyndham? How will they ever get to see an AFL game? Tough. You live in the middle of nowhere - in this case (Laumceston). You guys tried to be the capital, but did not succeed. Go bird watching at the gorge or something. Anyway, my point being, AFL football should be played in Hobart.

terrible argument.

this situation isn't about Launceston people saying 'what about us?' - if anything, it's the other way round. Hobart would certainly be the logical choice if we were going to start from scratch on this project, but Hobart made a half-arsed effort in the 90s at North Hobart Oval and lost the opportunity to stake a claim for any future Tasmanian AFL matches.

the State Government certainly knew what they were doing when they developed York Park, but if Hobart had done it properly in the first place, there wouldn't have even been an opportunity for the State Government to set up camp in Launceston.

* ALSO * AFL footballers could not possibly perform at optimum levels at York Park. Launceston (city of 60k people?) has the worst air quality of any city in Australia. Launceston is in all seriousness one big hole, and all the smoke from the woodheaters, which Launceston's residents will not stop using (despite all the government incentives to convert to a cleaner source of heating), just sits smack bang in the middle of that hole.

rubbish. absolute rubbish.

and there we have it folks...

GET VOTING!

 

[Devilcat]

There's two sides to every argument, yes.

the population of Tasmania is 485,000 - 200,000 of those people in the greater Hobart area. that's barely two-fifths of the population, let alone half.
Yes, the population of Tasmania is split virtually 50/50 between North and South, but Hobart is the capital city, so people should come here, rather than us going to Inceston.

it is a commonly held view that the State Government tried to 'buy' votes in the Bass electorate by developing York Park, but that doesn't necessarily mean they made the wrong call in doing so.

York Park is the most central location for ALL Tasmanian residents (over 55% of Tasmania's population is based in the Northern region). Hobart might have the largest settled population, but it is at least 2-4 hours away from over 250,000 Tasmanians. Launceston is only 2 hours away from all of Tasmania's main centres.
It isn't a commonly held view - it is fact that the Labor government bought votes in the Bass electorate by promising to develop York Park among other things. Then again, Bellerive got its redevelopment (new stand, video screen etc) which was supposed to make it a world class cricket venue.


Wrong. York Park's surface is held in extremely high esteem by the football community - some even regard it as the best surface in Australia.
I have played football on both surfaces, and on a dry sunny day, York Park is the better surface, however under 'adverse weather conditions', Bellerive is the better surface.

Bellerive Oval is based in a largely residential area. there little to no room for expansion, and even you have recognised the ridiculous parking situation at the ground.

York Park is based within the Inveresk industrial complex. there's room for expansion in every foreseeable direction, there's adequate parking facilities right next to the ground and there's no need to get planning permits just to bring it all up to scratch.

as for the actual stands and corporate facilities, there doesn't appear to be anything that sets either ground apart from the other. York Park's official capacity is 5000 above that of Bellerive Oval, its highest crowd figure is 2000 more than Bellerive Oval (19000 vs 16719), and York Park's capacity and facilities seem to be getting better every year - not that they really needed to.
Yes, parking as I said is ordinary at Bellerive, but we should just tell the residents (by the way I am a resident of the Clarence council municipality) to get over the redevelopment. The park sux anyway, and young girls get molested in dark places - happened last month...


this thread isn't about what the state government should do to help Bellerive Oval, this is about which ground is better - right here, right now.
I was talking about what the state government has done, and what the state government should do instead of their half arsed promises in the recent election. Not a fan.


rubbish. absolute rubbish?
I beg to differ
-(Launceston's) ..."this topography, when combined with calm winter days and extensive use of wood for heating is the cause of poor air quality in winter."
-"Research has shown that approximately 73% of air pollution in Launceston and the surrounding towns in winter is due to domestic woodheaters and open fires"
(http://www.launceston.tas.gov.au/airquality.php)

-"In winter months, Launceston is renowned for having the worst air quality of any city in Australia with 50% of households reliant on wood heaters or open fireplaces as their main source of heating."
(http://www.deh.gov.au/minister/env/2003/mr19sep203.html)

Anyway, the north/south debate will go on forever in TAS, and as a Hobartian, I will forever hold the view that AFL football should be played in the STATE'S CAPITAL.
You should start another post, just for interest's sake, whether peopel think the Gold Coast, which recently attracted 8k to a substandard Carrarra (?), or TAS which attracts more than twice that to every game played down here should be the next home of an AFL side... DID YOU KNOW THAT THE PARTICIPATION RATE PER CAPITA IS HIGHER IN TAS THAN ANY OTHER STATE/TERRITORY IN AUSTRALIA???? Money would be no problem, as I know for a fact that many wealthy TAS businessmen have promised the required funding to host an AFL side... I wonder whether the Devils are the dipping sauce for an AFL team, or are we going to be waiting forever and not get anything?

Tasmanian's can spend as much time as they like infighting between each other, but we should be uniting against the mainlanders who continually take all our best players, yet ignore our demands for our own AFL team. I'm sick of being the step child of the mainland. Our NBL team got ********ed off, and it seems we will never get a shot at an AFL side. DISCUSS????

 

[DaveW]

therefore, I'm conducting a poll on which venue YOU think is best suited to AFL football.

How about this: Hawthorn games at one venue, St Kilda games at the other.

Too far fetched?

 

[ColDawg]

I say Give Bellerive atleast 1 game a year, it would be bound to sell out. The devils always get more spectators in the south then they do when they play up north.
I reckon they should of put all the money into KGV its a large central location and has good parking at Northgate and surrounding places. I think they made a mistake and should of spent the moneythere imagine having the York Park facilites there plus the added population plus the ground is large enough for AFL.

 

[OZBomb]

To me, even as a Hobart resident, York Park is the better option.

More so than anything else, the ability to have night football is the most beneficial factor. The reason Bellerive doesn't get more cricket is the residents not allowing towers to be installed and day time cricket isn't nearly as appealing to the games broadcasters.

A lot more room for expansion at York Park, as has been said.

With travelling it isn't a particularly long journey. Epping Forrest have some good food also... Not "Best Food Ever" as the sign claims, but not too bad at all. Also it is probably too long a journey from Devonport and Burnie to Hobart.

Having lived on the North-West Coast and also in Hobart, I will say that there much more of a sporting culture in the north.

 

[Devilcat]

Maybe the AFL teams just dont want to come to Hobart now... Surreal is closed and Mobius is too small. Also, there is a 3am lockout rule at all venues. Where would all the players go to do pills?

 

[Marklar_33]

How about this: Hawthorn games at one venue, St Kilda games at the other.

Too far fetched?

Yes, it is

Why does Tasmania need as many AFL venues as Melbourne?

Anyways, correcting one fact that was missed from above, Launcestons population is close to 104,000. That may or may not include areas such as Perth, Hadspen and Legana, Im not sure but even if it did, these areas are still within a short drive to the plentiful parking areas surrounding York Park. You dont have to park at Howrah, or wherever that is. In fact, most games there arent even cars outside my house, and I am barely 400m away!
Adding to the Launceston population, is the 20,000(guesstimate) from Devonport and another 10k (at a stretch...) from Burnie, all within 1 1/2 drive.
Hobarts only 2 hours away, but I rekn we can fill York Park without the Southeners...

Ground surface? If David Parkin likes it, I like it

2 AFL clubs have already shown their preference to play here, so lets just stick with that hey?
Or we can put a drop-in pitch at YP and take the cricket as well

 

[Marklar_33]

I say Give Bellerive atleast 1 game a year, it would be bound to sell out. The devils always get more spectators in the south then they do when they play up north.
I reckon they should of put all the money into KGV its a large central location and has good parking at Northgate and surrounding places. I think they made a mistake and should of spent the moneythere imagine having the York Park facilites there plus the added population plus the ground is large enough for AFL.

Imagine having the facilities at York Park...

Oh, we do!

 

[Kingpin]

Haven't seen a match at York Park since early 1997, so I can't comment on what the facilities at the ground are like - but I will see it when Richmond plays there in a couple of months.
Bellerive has a lot of problems due to the local residents, it should have floodlights, the huge Southern Stand should be extended right the way around to the cricket pavilions - the small stand on the wing looks completely out of place.
I think they could make better use of space at Bellerive.
Access is an enormous problem with Bellerive, try to find a parking space is hopeless, and just generally trying to get into the area where the ground is is very difficult.
I always thought the best place to build a ground in the South was at the Showgrounds in Glenorchy. It had plenty of room, was already floodlit, nearby resident weren't concerned by it at all, and it would've held huge numbers of people.

Personally I've never been a great fan of either ground, but I also personally believe both grounds should host AFL football.

 

[Devilcat]

I don't think Fremantle would mind playing at a different Tassie venue. Their record at York Park is pretty ordinary.

 

[Marklar_33]

Maybe the AFL teams just dont want to come to Hobart now... Surreal is closed and Mobius is too small. Also, there is a 3am lockout rule at all venues. Where would all the players go to do pills?

We get mostly Freo and Port, so no problems there...
Allegedly of course

 

[Devilcat]

Does anyone know who the interstate 3 strikes and out ecstasy users were? I suspect M.Gardiner at the eagles might have been 1???

 

[DaveW]

Yes, it is

Why does Tasmania need as many AFL venues as Melbourne?

That says more about the current scarcity of AFL venues in Melbourne than anything else. (Why does Sydney have as many AFL venues as Melbourne? Why does SE Qld?)

 

[Devilcat]

Any thoughts on the merging of the Devils with the Kangaroos? Is it an indication that the roos are coming to TAS rather than the Gold Coast?? Personally, I don't think so. The devils were marketed as an avenue for Tasmanians to play some big time football. There goes any hopes many of my friends and I had of making it in the Devils.

 

[Marklar_33]

That says more about the current scarcity of AFL venues in Melbourne than anything else. (Why does Sydney have as many AFL venues as Melbourne? Why does SE Qld?)

Hmmm point taken, but at least these places have AFL teams currently
If it wasnt for being a traditional home, I dont think Sydney would still use the SCG (or maybe its an NRL thing).

Carrara still looks like crap (Well, looks like crap, my youth prevents me from speaking on the Bad News bears days). I would rather see matches at Bellerive than Carrara


Hey, maybe when Launnie get a team we can sell matches to Hobart

 

[Marklar_33]

Except for potentially being able to see some star Kangaroo players, I dont like the Kanga-Devils

The Devils were set up for top level Tassie players to be exposed to top level football again. I must say I didnt much like the recruiting of some Vic players to come down and play (except Jamie Cann, used to go to watch him play haha).

So if you want to get a game, youd better start backing North Lton to get a VFL spot in the future. Not sure they could financially support it though... they seem to have a Collingwood sort of love/hate relationship up north

 

[billybrownless16]

I was born in Hobart and have lived in Launceston for the last six years so I think I have a pretty interesting look at the North/South rivalry.
I always thought that AFL games should be played in Hobart, with either North Hobart Oval, Bellerive Oval, KGV, TCA or the Showgrounds upgraded to AFL standard with lights, grandstands, player & media facilities etc.
But now that York Park has had so much money spent on it and has been so succesful as an AFL country, it would be too late to go back and leave a 20,000 + capacity stadium to be used for NTFL games which draw a maximum crowd of roughly 1000 people.
If Tasmania ever secured its own AFL team, it wouldn't seem right to have it based in Launceston, it would be like when the Brisbane Bears were based on the Gold Coast.
But Bellerive has been developed but still has the problems with parking and nearby residents don't want floodlights installed at the ground will always hold it back.
The AFL games that were held at North Hobart Oval involving Fitzroy in the early 90's wouldn't have drawn crowds as big as what are going to York Park currently, but I don't think that can be used in a North/South argument as the facilities are quite different and Fitzroy was a lowly team at the time.
Personally I think that AFL games now have to stay at York Park, but if they had their time again, redevelop the home of football in Tasmania, North Hobart Oval, to AFL standard and play the games there.