Preview Your Best 22 for 2018

[Mismatched]

Compare the bit in bold, to when he was putting his knee in the back of GWS players, and bursting through a pack of Essendon players and bombing it from 60m!

But as I've been trying to point out, he was like this more often than a lot of us think in 2017. Was it from the broken ribs? Not sure. Was also prevalent in his game in 2016, but not as much, and he was in good form, so you'd take the good with the piss poor efforts he would put in sometimes.

But you are right, it's his effort at the contest, and complete lack of desire to attack the footy that is the most infuriating thing sit and watch from such a big framed bloke. Even when he does attack, as you said he is outbodied or brushed off too easily, and the defenders just stroll away from him like their off to a picnic. Does he not stand there and watch an 18 year old Fogarty go at it, and be either embarrassed or inspired by it enough to want to change his game??

The worst part of all of this, is that is he is a complete non-factor come finals time. When Jenkin's cant feed off of our ball movement, he literally becomes irrelevant. Compare that to someone like McGovern or Eddie who are key players and can still produce regardless of how the game unfolds. Even Tex when he is getting double-teamed and getting shit supply, is able to bring team mates into the game.

Jenkins at his best, is one of the hardest match-ups in the AFL and brings a lot to our forward line. But he hasnt been at his best since the back-end of 2016.

Going on 30, seems to be coasting on big dollars, and doesn't look interested in the slightest. Given his soft mentality we have seen all throughout his career, and the more recent complete lack of hunger for a contest, I personally, am struggling to see how he turns it around at this stage of his career, which has been one of the main reasons behind my stance on trialling Keath/Dear.

I think a run of games in the SANFL and a serious wake up call to Jenkins if this pathetic form continues, would do him no harm at all. Our forward line has shown to be just as effective in the small sample size without him, so it's not the end of the world as some are making it out to be.

Hopefully his good track record at Etihad continues and he can re-ignite some confidence.

I think he’s scarred from the rib injuries, or at least lost confidence following them and thus form and is struggling to find it. Pyke will back him in and you heard it from Roo on the boundary, he’s in the side, but I think it’s the worst thing for him at the moment. Playing without Tex probably doesn’t help him and he’s never been a naturally aggressive player, but he’s just not attacking the footy with any sort of confidence at present.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I agree with all except one - despite not being much of a Mackay fan, I’d prefer him in this side over Gibson.

Me too and prefer Milera to be parachuted in over both

 

[Jeffcrowe]

The answer to JJ may not involve Dear , Himmelberg etc

Just go in with a shorter mobile forward line

CEY can play forward , mid and 2nd ruck

Play Lynch McGovern and Fog

Surround them with Betts Murphy Hampton . There is your 7 forwards + mids resting

Should be able to pressure the oppo and no worse off in air without JJ

 

[ftmch]

Me too and prefer Milera to be parachuted in over both

Where is Milera at? Is the injured, out of form etc..?

Really keen to see him come on this year.

 

[Mismatched]

The answer to JJ may not involve Dear , Himmelberg etc

Just go in with a shorter mobile forward line

CEY can play forward , mid and 2nd ruck

Play Lynch McGovern and Fog

Surround them with Betts Murphy Hampton . There is your 7 forwards + mids resting

Should be able to pressure the oppo and no worse off in air without JJ

Agreed, also has the added benefit in that both CEY and Hampton can roll through the midfield and win plenty of clearances. Actually gives us that flexibility we talked about, but never saw, pre-2017.

Richmond’s 2nd ruck was Grigg on GF day, clearly when you’ve got a ruckman who rucks 80%+ gametime, the other 15-20% mean very little.

Quite frankly, I’d be looking to rotate the likes of Sloane, Gibbs, Douglas and B.Crouch through our outside roles more frequently, rather than rely on guys like Atikins, Mackay, Gibson, Seedsman, Knight who naturally tend to go missing when the going gets tough and can’t be effectively rotated through the stoppages due to size/being outside only players. Especially given we’ve got M.Crouch, Greenwood and CEY whom are absolute clearance beasts.

 

[Mismatched]

Where is Milera at? Is the injured, out of form etc..?

Really keen to see him come on this year.

Injury, Patella Tendinopathy which is being managed to an extent. The hope is that he’s currently on the mend, but who really knows.

 

[azza77]

I'm not sure self awareness is a big part of his make up.

Do we still do the player feedback stuff? The 360 degree reviews or leading teams whatever it was?

Would Jacobs and Jenkins have had to apologise to their team mates for putting their hand up for the Sydney final when clearly not 100% fit?

Not 100% what you’re getting at here DABM, are you asking about how much feedback players get given on their actual actions and on field stuff?

Like does Jenkins realise how soft he is and are players/coaches demanding more from him?

 

[1970crow]

Just watching the game from the weekend again and I’m sorry but Jenkins is not right, the second there’s anything close to body pressure, he doesn’t look close to taking it cleanly. He just doesn’t want the footy, which is a sign of a player whose confidence is absolutely shot, he’s playing bruise free footy. Hoping if he puts his hands in the vicinity of the footy, something might stick, instead of eyes on the footy, attacking it at its highest point. He’s also allowing himself to be out bodied for position far too easily despite being the biggest guy out there. There’s simply no fight, no want or desire.

Forget about what he’s done in the past, at his best he’s in our 22 IMO, but at the moment he’s a shadow of what he was 2-3 years ago, he needs an extended run in the 2’s to regain confidence. Continuing to play him is only going to do the club and Josh a disservice.

He'll only get 8 or 9 weeks to find form. Then 5 goals in a 120 point win will reset the clock.

 

[1970crow]

Both duds

There's still degrees of dudness. Dmac much dudder than Gibson.

 

[Hodgy]

Doedee Talia Brown
Laird Hartigan/Keith Kelly
Seeds B Crouch/CEY Atkins
T Lynch M McGovern J Jenkins
Murphy Walker/Fogarty Betts

Jacobs, M Crouch, Gibbs

R Sloane
H Greenwood/CEY
C Hampton
R Douglas



Changes from GF side

R Knight - Gibbs
Cameron - Murphy
Otten - M McGovern
Jake Leaver - T Doedee
D Mackay - Hampton

Gibson just makes to many poor choices and disposal for mine
Seedsman gives more weapons on the wing than Mackay
Toss up between CEY and Greenwood but both play if B Crouch doesn't
Fogarty doesn't look ready but give a taste if Tex not fit.
Toss up between Hartigan or Keith

 

[conVINCEd]

Gibson's point of difference compared to Dmac on a wing is that he runs harder week in and week out, gets more of the ball, is strong over it and a strong tackler. Both are average by foot. But Gibson gives more overall and is a genuine option if we need sone support in the stoppage rotation.

I don’t disagree with much of that but think Mackay offers a bit more, groan - ‘run and carry’ - which we really lack with Smith and Cameron out.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Not 100% what you’re getting at here DABM, are you asking about how much feedback players get given on their actual actions and on field stuff?

Like does Jenkins realise how soft he is and are players/coaches demanding more from him?

Yeah exactly that. Have heard a couple of players talk about some of the feedback dished out at these sessions. Pretty frank and brutal. To the point that players have stormed out and/or got quite aggressive during the session. Sometimes going away to stew on it after a while they start to recognise that the reason they reacted so angrily was that there was at least an element of truth.

Some players (not just our club) seem proud to boast that they'd "played their role" regardless of what shortcomings they'd also displayed or how much better they could be even within that same role.

 

[1970crow]

I don’t disagree with much of that but think Mackay offers a bit more, groan - ‘run and carry’ - which we really lack with Smith and Cameron out.

Yeh, his 14 touches and 15m ran is critical to our success. Great intent, but his effectiveness is zero. Except when we're smoking teams. Gibson is grunt, no worse with disposal but gets the ball much more. Plus can tag, stick tackles and will run hard every minute, every week. Dmac doesn't do that, he runs hard when it suits.

 

[conVINCEd]

Yeh, his 14 touches and 15m ran is critical to our success. Great intent, but his effectiveness is zero. Except when we're smoking teams. Gibson is grunt, no worse with disposal but gets the ball much more. Plus can tag, stick tackles and will run hard every minute, every week. Dmac doesn't do that, he runs hard when it suits.

I think we've got enough grunt in my predicted XXII and severely lack run. I'm no Mackay fan, Gibson just hasn't shown much with us so far.

 

[Sanders]

http://m.afc.com.au/news/2012-05-23/topend-speed

That’s 6 years old

 

[Donkey Magoo]

I was all aboard the Gibson > Mackay train until I watched him kick last weekend.

 

[Maggsy]

I've been thinking about this alot lately,. and this is my latest 22 I WANT to see for Round 1.

FB: Brown - Hartigan - Doedee
HB: Kelly - Talia - Laird
C: Atkins - B.Crouch - Gibbs
HF: Fogarty - Walker - Lynch
FF: McGovern - Jenkins - Betts
FOLL: Jacobs - M.Crouch - Sloane

INT: Douglas - Greenwood - Knight - Hampton

Thereafter: Gibson - Cheney - Seedsman - Keath - Milera - CEY - Poholke - Murphy and so on,...

 

[Jeffcrowe]

There's still degrees of dudness. Dmac much dudder than Gibson.

I actually think it's line ball , so do the Kangas fans

 

[Hodgy]

I've been thinking about this alot lately,. and this is my latest 22 I WANT to see for Round 1.

FB: Brown - Hartigan - Doedee
HB: Kelly - Talia - Laird
C: Atkins - B.Crouch - Gibbs
HF: Fogarty - Walker - Lynch
FF: McGovern - Jenkins - Betts
FOLL: Jacobs - M.Crouch - Sloane

INT: Douglas - Greenwood - Knight - Hampton

Thereafter: Gibson - Cheney - Seedsman - Keath - Milera - CEY - Poholke - Murphy and so on,...

Good looking side except 5 guys 6"4' or above in the forward line would make it just too easy for opposition to stream out of defence. Think we will need Murphy at least up there for defensive pressure.

 

[azza77]

Yeah exactly that. Have heard a couple of players talk about some of the feedback dished out at these sessions. Pretty frank and brutal. To the point that players have stormed out and/or got quite aggressive during the session. Sometimes going away to stew on it after a while they start to recognise that the reason they reacted so angrily was that there was at least an element of truth.

Some players (not just our club) seem proud to boast that they'd "played their role" regardless of what shortcomings they'd also displayed or how much better they could be even within that same role.

Yeah, does sound brutal. Is this a recent thing you've heard? Or more so a consistent story you've heard over the years from various players?

I guess there are some that would respond well to it, and some that wouldn't, probably driving all confidence they had out of their head. Jenkins strikes as the type that wouldn't respond well to said criticism. He just doesn't seem the type that likes to be challenged, you can see it in his football.

 

[The House]

Gibson's point of difference compared to Dmac on a wing is that he runs harder week in and week out, gets more of the ball, is strong over it and a strong tackler. Both are average by foot. But Gibson gives more overall and is a genuine option if we need sone support in the stoppage rotation.

Agree and then some. I can't believe Gibson isn't listed in almost all of your best 22's tbh - is he a run and carry? Is he flashy? Is he silky? No - Is he an intelligent footballer with great strength over the footy and work ethic, who knows how to play an important role? - clearly yes. I'm surprised that sides like my Essendon and a few others weren't all fighting over him (and I have zero idea why Nth got rid of him).

Think Grigg last year. Premiership sides need foot soldiers...in fact sometimes the difference between winning and losing on the day is how the "bottom six" or so perform - for mine Gibson simply makes your side better - and when you're in a window (unlike my mob) I reckon you should be super psyched about a professional, experienced 16-22 type player being added to your list for free.

Mark my words - he'll make a difference.

 

[Shaz2012]

Agree and then some. I can't believe Gibson isn't listed in almost all of your best 22's tbh - is he a run and carry? Is he flashy? Is he silky? No - Is he an intelligent footballer with great strength over the footy and work ethic, who knows how to play an important role? - clearly yes. I'm surprised that sides like my Essendon and a few others weren't all fighting over him (and I have zero idea why Nth got rid of him).

Think Grigg last year. Premiership sides need foot soldiers...in fact sometimes the difference between winning and losing on the day is how the "bottom six" or so perform - for mine Gibson simply makes your side better - and when you're in a window (unlike my mob) I reckon you should be super psyched about a professional, experienced 16-22 type player being added to your list for free.

Mark my words - he'll make a difference.

His work when we don’t have the ball will be important. When we lose it usually feels like we have 18 or 19 passengers. But in modern football you need to have 22 players that can use the ball. Just like you can’t carry too many players who don’t run both ways, you can’t carry players that burn it. Mackay probably gets similar disposals to Gibson, but Gibson will probably use it even worse than Mackay. Considering that is one of his main knocks I don’t see much patience in the fan base for Mackay’s replacement to have even more clangers.

The real benefit that Gibson can give us is if he can come into the midfield and put a stop on a star opposition mid. He cleaned up Sloane and if we can rotate him in to do a stopping job at critical times in the game then he has a real point of difference to the guys he is competing for a spot with.

 

[baldandbroke]

I love players like Gibson. Same as I love players like Kelly and Doedee. Pre-season game and you have a chance of getting smashed - doesn't matter. Running to cover your opposition on transition even though they probably won't get used - irrelevant. No compromise. No choosing when to go.

It's why I have this ongoing issue with JJ, Mackay and Milera (to some extent).

I'll have Gibson all day, because I know he will do whatever he can to help his team win.

 

[lamby]

Agree and then some. I can't believe Gibson isn't listed in almost all of your best 22's tbh

Because Adelaide’s game is about skill, fast rebounds and not turning the ball over. The team who turns over the ball most loses. When we are on a fast break we commit players forward - if we turn over the ball during the break we concede goals. Gibson turns over the ball too much (from what little I have seen).

I would be disappointed if we pick him.

 

[matty p]

B: Brown - Talia - Doedee
HB: Laird - Keath/Hartigan - Milera
C: Atkins - Gibbs - Seedsman
HF: Lynch - Walker (Fogarty) - Knight (Hampton)
F: McGovern - Jenkins/Fogarty - Betts
R: Jacobs - Sloane - M. Crouch
I: B. Crouch (CEY) - Greenwood - Kelly - Douglas (replaced by Smith when fit)

Essentially:
- Doedee in for Lever as the intercept 3rd tall
- Milera in for Smith as the rebounding 7th defender
- Only one of Keath/Hartigan depending on their form and fitness
- Gibbs obviously into the midfield, with Douglas no longer in the mid rotations but acting as a utility (to be replaced by Smith when fit), and Mackay out of the squad completely
- Brouch in for CEY when fit
- Walker in for Fogarty/Jenkins when fit, depending on JJ's form. If JJ goes out, CEY to play backup ruckman whilst still in the 22
- Knight in for Hampton when fit to play Charlie's defensive forward role