Your thoughts on GWS

[BarneyBent]

Sorry – you want me to explain why Sydneysiders who develop an interest in Aussie Rules would gravitate towards supporting the Sydney side?

Really? That needs to be explained?

Do you also want me to explain why people in WA who develop an interest in Aussie Rules would overwhelmingly tend to support the Eagles or the Dockers?

Point=missed.

I don't want you to explain why Sydneysiders who develop an interest in Aussie Rules would gravitate towards the Swans. I want you to explain why this means that the Swans should have been more successful as a result of this.

So what's left for you to disagree with me about?

You've just conceded my main point.

No I didn't. Or if I did, that means you're simply arguing a truism. And if that's the case, it doesn't really reflect well on you. Of course Swans supporters would generally flock to the Swans. My point is that this process is very slow for the same reason, and that you're ignoring that.

In short, you are arguing that the benefit of being the only AFL team in the city is balanced against the fact that there are other codes in the mix.

That's fine. I don't dispute that.

All I've been saying is that being the only AFL team in the city has been a significant factor in the Swans' ability to build a following. You bizarrely disputed that initially, but have now conceded that point.

I haven't conceded that point. I only conceded that point when you consider one specific aspect of that effect, but that is not a true reflection of reality. You have to consider the added effect of being the only AFL side in the city, up against many league and a major union side: the cross code effect. The Swans might be the only AFL side, so basically all the AFL supporters gravitate towards them. However, the Swans are the only AFL side, so the number of AFL supporters is very small.

See? You're just considering one side of the coin. You have to consider all aspects of the effect. And when you consider that, then it's not a massively significant effect at all. There is a slight effect, but it's not nearly as fundamental as you say it is, because it only realistically applies to supporters converted by the game independently of the Swans, who then gravitate to the Swans.

Basically: you're saying all AFL fans will become Swans fans, as the Swans are the only team. Therefore, Swans get massive boost from this. However, because the Swans are the only team, they're the only ones promoting the game. Therefore, almost any person who becomes an AFL fan, become one because of the Swans to begin with. Therefore, this effect doesn't need to happen, because they become a Swans fan before an AFL fan. Therefore, the Swans don't get the AFL-fan-becomes-Swans-fan effect, because the Swans are the ones who converted them in the first place.

Now, for the small minority who are converted to AFL through some other, non-Swans related means, yes the Swans will often benefit from them (some will choose to follow an interstate team, but most will follow the Swans). But overall, these supporters represent a very small percentage of the overall Swans support. The bulk of Swans support comes from genuine recruitment work on the Swans part, make no mistake.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

If only Fitzroy had received a fraction of the support GWS are getting from the AFL - or ANY support, or even just not been deliberately kicked in the head over and over again as we were

It seriously does rankle that all this money is being ploughed into West Sydney as it is, as opposed to what happened with us, being systematically forced out of the AFL as we were...

 

[floppinab]

If only Fitzroy had received a fraction of the support GWS are getting from the AFL - or ANY support, or even just not been deliberately kicked in the head over and over again as we were

It seriously does rankle that all this money is being ploughed into West Sydney as it is, as opposed to what happened with us, being systematically forced out of the AFL as we were...

A national league was never going to support 12 clubs out of Melbourne, with weakest always going to struggle. The 10 we've got today is still too much with a number of them being partly funded by money being generated outside of Victoria. The Roys should've dropped back wholus bolus to the VFA/VFL, could've kept all their history, memorabilia, the lot, and their supporters could see them play every week. Sure it's not the highest level but for a club of that size there's no other option.

Without clubs like GWS coming into the picture the AFL will not expand both in terms of supporter and corporate support and participation as well as increasing broadcast revenue.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

I think you're unaware of certain realities with this- apart from the fact that the financial problems some Melbourne clubs (NOT the Demons at this point) are presently having is because of the atrocious stadium deals that existed at the MCG and Etihad until now.

10 clubs in Melbourne - with the level of ongoing funding from the AFL to clubs as a matter of course now - is certainly sustainable, and 11 clubs (which was the situation until Fitzroy was forced out) would have been equally sustainable.

Particularly if we had been able to set up our base in Canberra, which would have been every bit as financially beneficial to us as the Hawthorn move into Tasmania, because we had a strong base of support in the ACT.

Not only did the AFL under Oakley hamper Fitzroy to extreme levels regarding the operation of the Club in Melbourne, we were also prevented from setting up any long-term base either in Canberra (where we planned to play 8 games a season), or in Tasmania prior to that time (where we also had a strong base), amongst other things.

You don't know anywhere near the full story.

Here's a record of most of the ways the AFL kicked us in the teeth over the last decade and a bit of our time in the league- http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15294169&postcount=60

If you read this, you will find it a real eye-opener...

 

[jpdixon]

Huh?

These statements are unrecognisable to me.

After 25 years, the Swans are not exactly powerhouses, despite being the only team in the nation's biggets market. Not what I would call "a huge success".

I think that comment is the only reason the conversation is still going. Most of the other comments are generally agreeing with everything else you have said.

 

[floppinab]

We've gone a bit OT here so I'll keep this brief.

I was aware of some of that but not necessarily all. I hate the idea that a club with the history of Fitzroy is a bit here and there. IMO a club is a club regardless of what league it plays in and if I was a Fitzroy fan I would much rather that the club bit the bullet at the time and dropped back to the VAFA and maintained it's true and full identity there. A big call to made given the circumstances at the time no doubt.

Bottom line for me is that I believe there are too many clubs in Melb and the smaller ones rely too much on revenue generated by the Broadcast agreements. Certainly playing more games outside of Melb. is an opportunity to grow a club and game at the highest level in terms of sponsorship, exposure, participation, membership and broadcast in those new areas.

That said I'm not a fan of that approach into the non-traditional markets (although a bit 50/50 for Canberra given the traditional strength there in AFL, given the time and resources that could've worked, particularly given they probably won't be able to support a standalone team), those markets need a team to call their own as opposed to having a team that's a bit 50/50, and as long as there is potential in that market for them to support themselves a reasonable distance into the future.

 

[cos789]

Geez, you're struggling. Maybe this kind of juvenile, empty-headed reversee was persuasive in grade five, but now it just advertises your lack of ideas.

Exactly you , re your comment about China .

Yes the same principle applies to China as to a large population base , but you made that remark knowing full well that there are a of other instrumental factors as well like - distance from Australia , language difference , different culture , lack of ovals , general lack of field sorts , current lack of exposure and media difficulty just for starters . So grow up .

.

 

[Mickdog]

To everyone who knocked it and had a go at me for pushing for my own team. You can kiss my arse

 

[.Shotties.]

Mad. You can change your team tag now.

 

[jacko57]

To everyone who knocked it and had a go at me for pushing for my own team. You can kiss my arse

Fair enough. Seeing it's a raging success and all.

 

[Chewy]

I posted this in a thread about possible GWS club songs:




Tune: The Great Rock n Roll Swindle (Sex Pistols)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gcrajf9Whk&feature=related
(clink on the link and sing along)


People said we couldn't play
They called us the mercenary squad
But the only notes that really count
Are the ones that come in wads

They all frowned when Judd became a Blue
'Cos he didn't give a toss
Filthy lucre, ain't nothing new
But we all get cash from the chaos

The time is right to do it now
For Greater Western Sydney
The time is right to doooooooooooooooo it NOW!

Brisbane said you're out of hand
And they gave Fev the boot
But they couldn't sack him just like that
Without giving him the loot

Thank you kindly Andy D
For giving us all those draft picks
But we're going to need some more assistance
If they can't get a kick

The time is right to f**k off now
To Greater Western Sydney
The time is right to doooooooooooooooo it NOW!

The time is right to f**k off now
For Greater Western Sydney
The time is right to doooooooooooooooo it NOW!

I just wanna play with Izzy Folau
Is he good enough or just greedy?
Hiya boys it's the chosen one
Mister f**king Sheedy

I'm Matthew Pavlich and I want everything
From the Dockers, I'll escape
I'll take you, if you're ready for me
And I'll put on my superman cape

The time is right for Sheedy's Special
The greatest alcoholic coach
The time is right for Sheeeeeeeds now!

A! F! L! Swindle!
A! F! L! Swindle!
A! F! L! Swindle!
A! F! L!

A! F! L! Swindle!
A! F! L! Swindle!
A! F! L! Swindle!
A! F! L!

A! F! L! Swindle!
A! F! L! Swindle!
A! F! L! Swindle!
A! F! L!

It's a swindle!

It’s a swindle...

 

[AsianWithAFro]

Can't wait

Just upset they will be called the Giants (if true)

 

[Mickdog]

It is great having my own team. Now I was wondering if anyone can tell me how long it will take for the Giants to build a decent roster and challenge for a flag?

 

[dlanod]

It is great having my own team. Now I was wondering if anyone can tell me how long it will take for the Giants to build a decent roster and challenge for a flag?

Five years, minimum, assuming stability at the club during that time.

 

[Gydafud]

You have to be prepared to settle in for the long haul with GWS, I think.

 

[Pie eyed]

GWS have looked at least as good as I expected.
A little better perhaps.

God knows they may be 40years waiting for a first flag, or 5.
Depends how the cookie crumbles.

 

[RodneyMaynard]

You'll be competitive in 3 years. Beyond that a lot of things need to line up for a team to open a premiership window, many of them outside the control of the club itself. Time will obviously tell.

 

[Go Giants]

We have won the same amount of flags as the bulldogs, saints an demons over last 40 years. We will be fine

 

[Go Giants]

I think it is a joke, since 1879 they have had a footy league in tasmania, and produced some of the greatest players ever to play the game! There are 1/2 million people in tassie who would love to have a team down there and they would sellout every week.

But they give it to another Sydney team, what a joke!! I hope it fails miserably in terms of team success. There will be something wrong if there isn't a tasmanian team in the next decade!

Tassie deserve a team!

Why are you so against GWS and the game growing in NSW?

 

[BlueDW]

I like the way they are going about it, recruiting a bunch of kids that are hungry for the contest, both inside and out, ball winners like Greene, Consiglio etc, marking forwards like Patton and Cameron. As well as the obvious talent of Scully, Davis etc.

I just like their balance and think they will compete for a flag before GC, regardsless of Ablett.