List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[sr36]

At this point I’d say that Kelly is far more likely to be delisted than Madge. Zero competitiveness. Which is a shame because his field kicking would make him a weapon coming out of defence.

I reckon it's more that he thinks slowly, so is always reactive, even when he's got the ball in his hands.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Kelly is 194cm. It’s a height which he could get away with if he had bulk and aggression, but he has neither.

Could have sworn I saw him listed as 195 or 196cm. Although I have seen Madge listed as 192 194 and 196cm as well. As a science teacher I know that there is some variation in height depending on time of day that you are measured.

 

[manicpie]

fair enough. I agree in terms of competitiveness although I have only watched 4-5 VFL games with a few more highlight packages. I think the age gap 21 vs 29 will more likely result in Will being saved although we could easily lose both because we need to list spots.

kelly won't be delisted. He is only 21yo and still growing into his body. This year has been the only year where he has had a sustained run at it. Madge won't be kept ahead of kelly

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

kelly won't be delisted. He is only 21yo and still growing into his body. This year has been the only year where he has had a sustained run at it. Madge won't be kept ahead of kelly

Thats my assessment as well. Although if we bring is 2-3 players in trade time he will be lucky to escape the chopping block.

 

[Scodog10]

kelly won't be delisted. He is only 21yo and still growing into his body. This year has been the only year where he has had a sustained run at it. Madge won't be kept ahead of kelly

This right here is the thinking that leads to guys like Gault, T Brown and Kelly remaining on AFL lists for years. The deficiencies in their game are right there in front of us, but “development” is assumed to come with time… Ash Johnson is the same body shape, had injuries and been in the system half as long yet has shown five times as much talent. You want to get a good run at it be tall and have the correct surname.

 

[Prexm]

Thats my assessment as well. Although if we bring is 2-3 players in trade time he will be lucky to escape the chopping block.

Close to certainties Chugg C Brown Madgen . Chance T Brown Kelly Poulter depending on how many more players we being in from other clubs compared to how many we let go to other clubs.

 

[sr36]

This right here is the thinking that leads to guys like Gault, T Brown and Kelly remaining on AFL lists for years. The deficiencies in their game are right there in front of us, but “development” is assumed to come with time… Ash Johnson is the same body shape, had injuries and been in the system half as long yet has shown five times as much talent. You want to get a good run at it be tall and have the correct surname.

It's a fine line between exercising enough patience and giving blokes too much time. It's really got to be a talent call - personally, I think Kelly's processing speed is too slow for him to make it. But that's just one of those intangibles that's really hard to assess and even the bst list managers are going to get wrong.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Close to certainties Chugg C Brown Madgen . Chance T Brown Kelly Poulter depending on how many more players we being in from other clubs compared to how many we let go to other clubs.

DeGoey (likey but hope not), Ollie (very unlikey but I would do it for a top 10 sorry), Grundy (unlikely) also possibilities.

 

[cakewalk06]

Kelly is 194cm. It’s a height which he could get away with if he had bulk and aggression, but he has neither.

yeah i wish he had a dash of what his old man had.. a bit of the old mongrel. He was not the most skilful player Craig Kelly but was a rock at CHB.

 

[Pistol Night]

yeah i wish he had a dash of what his old man had.. a bit of the old mongrel. He was not the most skilful player Craig Kelly but was a rock at CHB.

Pinching Plugger, Ablett and Dunstall is borderline suicidal so Ned certainly wasn't lacking pills

 

[nahnah]

Close to certainties Chugg C Brown Madgen . Chance T Brown Kelly Poulter depending on how many more players we being in from other clubs compared to how many we let go to other clubs.

Wilson. Poulter would be a trade not a delisting

 

[gouki88]

That is a superficial assessment of the outcome.

Grundy’s improvement in stats and development can largely be attributed to his selection in the team ahead of Witts. Hard to develop and accumulate stats if you’re not playing at the level. He has now surpassed Grundy in terms of value for money.

I never said they were on par either. Comprehension is important. The choice to select Grundy was most probable, hence the decision. Witts qualities and prospects were evident and we should have capitalised on this via trade.

You wrote verbatim "just about on par", which is a falsehood. They were realms apart.

 

[Dynamics]

The pessimism of Ollie re-signing reminds me of the same re: Macrae earlier in the year. I was encouraged by an interview earlier in the year where he said he loved the club, loved living in Melbourne, loved his independence and growing as a person, and having the best of both worlds with his family just down the highway. It seemed sincere to me. I understand the anxiety because he hasn't re-signed but that's all it is. Some of the "mummy's boy" commentary that's come with it has been pretty distasteful and unwarranted imo.

I too have never understood this way of thinking.

"Oh, there's an entirely unfounded rumour that Player X is considering XYZ? If so, then what a weak ####ing piece of ##### he is and he needs to harden the ##### up and do ABC instead of XYZ. This generation is full of ##### and I've had just about enough of XYZ."

Nek minnit the rumour is unfounded, the rant is never retracted or addressed and the person is off to get outraged about something else that hasn't actually happened.

At least it's super predictable.

 

[Quicky]

Does Madgen’s form complicate things re McStay? I’m obviously not a fan of his work down back, but his form forward of the ball lately is promising. Right now he’s the next cab off the rank as a forward and although I’d go a different way if WHE misses I’d be happy for Madge to come in.

At Madgens size I'd say not. I also prefer the idea of McStay the defender rather than forward and we know Madgen isn't the answer there.

 

[Dynamics]

Its all speculation regarding Taranto. Wouldn't be surprised if he stays at GWS, which apparently is his option, but he has been earmarked as possible trade bait due to the GWS salary cap mismanagement. I think he will remain at GWS, especially if Clarko ends up there.
We may only get in McStay and Hill, which would mean the amount cutting into our cap wouldn’t be as deep, so we could still have Grundy and DeGoey on the books...

Taranto 100% wants to stay in Sydney. Very happy and settled there. It would be a purely financial decision to go.

 

[magpies42]

You wrote verbatim "just about on par", which is a falsehood. They were realms apart.

Largely on par, means they were close in those formative years…but of course as Grundy got more games, confidence grew and the rest is history. They were close, I can recall the debate on which one to play and at points they tried to play both of them.

Witt’s caught up though, which reinforces my point they were close.

 

[Scodog10]

It's a fine line between exercising enough patience and giving blokes too much time. It's really got to be a talent call - personally, I think Kelly's processing speed is too slow for him to make it. But that's just one of those intangibles that's really hard to assess and even the bst list managers are going to get wrong.

I’m not going to comment on processing speed. Unless you’re going out of your way to watch a guy off the ball you’ll only ever see it on the ball and I’m ok with a guy that takes time to assess their options when they have the footskill Kelly has. If someone look’s uncompetitive because they take too long to process whether they should go or not it’s a different story that I’d leave with the club. Regardless for me it manifests as uncompetitiveness which is tough to change.

Another way to break it down is in 2022 when Moore missed v North we turned to Ruscoe. In 2023 it’ll be Dean, McStay and Kreuger he’s competing with on top of the current mix. Let’s say he adds more size over the off-season (he’s already a gun time trailer so endurance won’t be added) where does that see him placed v those 3? He’s in trouble and even though there might be an argument for retention age and growth aren’t factors, IMO.

 

[sr36]

I’m not going to comment on processing speed. Unless you’re going out of your way to watch a guy off the ball you’ll only ever see it on the ball and I’m ok with a guy that takes time to assess their options when they have the footskill Kelly has. If someone look’s uncompetitive because they take too long to process whether they should go or not it’s a different story that I’d leave with the club. Regardless for me it manifests as uncompetitiveness which is tough to change.

Another way to break it down is in 2022 when Moore missed v North we turned to Ruscoe. In 2023 it’ll be Dean, McStay and Kreuger he’s competing with on top of the current mix. Let’s say he adds more size over the off-season (he’s already a gun time trailer so endurance won’t be added) where does that see him placed v those 3? He’s in trouble and even though there might be an argument for retention age and growth aren’t factors, IMO.

Yes. Processing speed is one of those immeasurables that make recruiting and list mmt such an inexact science, but it's crucial.

 

[LarryKinn]

Murphy has become a lock in the 22, with Ruscoe under contract for another season.
it means I'd prioritize Wilson and Kelly as depth utilities for 2 Rookie spots (age and size) promote Noble to the senior list
Delist Chugg, Madgen, C Brown, Roughead. Cox's trigger means he remains
We still need talls, if Moore goes down we have no-one to contend with Hawkins/Daniher etc.
What's the word on Poulter ? (reckon Henry resigns, Grundy and DeGoey stay)

 

[sr36]

kelly won't be delisted. He is only 21yo and still growing into his body. This year has been the only year where he has had a sustained run at it. Madge won't be kept ahead of kelly

If it's true that we've got a few recruits already in the bag, there will be a cull or two that some are disappointed about.

 

[tmpies01]

You don’t start following Melbourne home design pages on Instagram if you’re not planning to come back to Melbourne. Taranto definitely on the move

 

[Robroy22]

Definition: "Processing skills"

 

[Prexm]

Murphy has become a lock in the 22, with Ruscoe under contract for another season.
it means I'd prioritize Wilson and Kelly as depth utilities for 2 Rookie spots (age and size) promote Noble to the senior list
Delist Chugg, Madgen, C Brown, Roughead. Cox's trigger means he remains
We still need talls, if Moore goes down we have no-one to contend with Hawkins/Daniher etc.
What's the word on Poulter ? (reckon Henry resigns, Grundy and DeGoey stay)

It’s almost certain we will only have one free Cat A rookie spot. With Carmichael added we have 7 Cat A at the moment

 

[No SPIN]

He can be drafted as a category A rookie and doesn’t have to go into the senior list.

I’m not sure what it is that people see in Kelly other than his surname and KP size, but he’s not making it. Zero competitiveness.

If only Kelly had his Dad competitiveness- clearly got his Mums genes on that score.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Yes. Processing speed is one of those immeasurables that make recruiting and list mmt such an inexact science, but it's crucial.

You can see the players that have it. The Moores, Henrys, Mays etc who read the flight of the ball well and get to the ball drop first But then there are also those who use it to get to the ball first on the deck after a ruck contest such DeGoey, Miller or Angus Brayshaw but the best are those that can quickly find space from congestion (using decision making rather then speed) and quickly see the options in front and hit those options with silky skill such as Pendlebury (master of space and time) and Daicos.