Play Nice Derailed, (The Place to Continue Off-Topic Discussion)

[JB1975]

The Nazi racial theories were adopted by 'science' which then set about "proving" them. They even corrupted archaeology in their attempts to create a scientific basis for these theories.

I know I sound rude, but it's okay to stop talking when you don't know what you are talking about, and it is (painfully) evident that you've got no idea.

Nazi racial theories were built upon Darwinian theories of evolution. There was a whole branch of pseudoscience dedicated to this sort of thing, beginning in the 1860s/1870s, which also fed into the eugenics movement and into places like Australia.

The Nazis married these ideas with their own myths about the German fatherland, with an added twist which suggested that the Jews were the natural enemy of the Aryan.

 

[sr36]

A healthy skepticism advances any field of endeavour and is essential when people assess what authority they are prepared to submit their faith to. Most people don't have a healthy enough skepticism imv.

I think the holocaust is THE singular best example of how science is easily corrupted and used as a tool of evil. We are talking about people's faith in science and there is no greater example of where that can go wrong than the holocaust.

I only have to walk out my door and see the cane toads hopping around to be reminded of how many times science has got it badly wrong.
I have faith in real science. It's when it gets mixed with big money or politics (or both) that my alarm bells start ringing.

I don't know whether I agree with you or not. I suspect I do agree with your overall point, but jeez you've made it muddy. The muddiness is summed up by the line "I have faith in real science. It's when it gets mixed with big money or politics (or both) that my alarm bells start ringing." Which twists what I thought you were saying.

I thought that you meant that scientific "knowledge" is simply the most credible theory and that it is continuously being contemplated, tested and adjusted and thus some of it will change and shouldn't be viewed as unalterable facts, which I agree with entirely. But you've closed with a faith based statement suggesting that the truth is known and gone with an implication of conspiracy suggesting it is being repressed by those in power.

 

[jathanas]

Your whole post is disingenuous.
1. We are talking about FAITH in medical science and how its authority can be corrupted and abused. Putting on a white coat is the perfect example of this. In the context of the discussion, there is nothing inaccurate about this angle whatsover. Your claim that is is though...
2. The Nazi racial theories were adopted by 'science' which then set about "proving" them. They even corrupted archaeology in their attempts to create a scientific basis for these theories.
3. A discussion of sciences key role in the holocaust is in no way insensitive or offensive. Go to Yad Veshyn and you will see that THE official holocaust remembrance and study organisation are happy to have people discussing these matters because it may help avoiding any recurrence. You will also find whole sections devoted to discussing medical sciences key role in the holocaust.

I don't think they'd appreciate the way some try to shut down discussion around the holocaust by saying 'its too sensitive'.

IMHO you've picked the wrong hill to die on this fine morning but thank you for keeping it respectful.

I understand the point you're making about Nazis bending science to align with their doctrine but can't see how this relates to the discussion re: Ginni's headpsace in any meaningful sense.

I think we can all accept that the scientific process works best when a healthy dose of scepticism is applied to the mix but drawing analogies to the holocaust, one of humanity's darkest chapters, to make a point in the Ginnivan thread is in my view an unwarranted stretch; this is only my view as a poster.

Not trying to shut you down, just letting you know your argument is unseemly in my view.

Peace.

 

[NMBB]

IMHO you've picked the wrong hill to die on this fine morning but thank you for keeping it respectful.

I understand the point you're making about Nazis bending science to align with their doctrine but can't see how this relates to the discussion re: Ginni's headpsace in any meaningful sense.

I think we can all accept that the scientific process works best when a healthy dose of scepticism is applied to the mix but drawing analogies to the holocaust, one of humanity's darkest chapters, to make a point in the Ginnivan thread is in my view an unwarranted stretch; this is only my view as a poster.

Peace.

I'm told Ginni didn't like science at school - so this stuff could go to its own thread.

 

[DinoSoar]

This thread …

 

[jathanas]

There were a lot of Nazis in white coats meeting the transports in the camps. The incoming victims were given the most cursory of medicals to select some labourers among the stronger folk. I have seen this recently in documentary film and also in 'Schindler's List' which I rewatched because I was reminded of the movie by Schindler's Lift technicians, whose vehicles were parked in the basement several days recently while a belt on the middle lift was replaced. In my early days in my apartment building, I had a standard occasional quip in the lifts along the lines of 'I have heard of Schindler's List - perhaps Schindler's Lift is the sequel'.

The belt was to be replaced on a scheduled service back in April but was never ordered far enough ahead in time. The belt didn't arrive till August, so for safety reasons, the lift was out of action for 4 months. This delay was thanks to the mainland Chinese (again) and their infuriating lockdowns at the sound of a citizens sneeze, closing down cities and industries, with chaps in full PPE gear brandishing sticks, chasing corgis and other pets to kindly absolve their sick owners of the responsibility of the animal's care while in lockdown.

However I have no intention of drawing a link between white coats and science.

There are a lot of butchers wearing white coats at work.

Not to digress (even further) but when butchers wear white coats is it to soothe their customers who are now paying close to $50 per kg for porterhouse?

I too, would not dare draw a link between white coats used in that manner and science.

 

[jonbe54]

Calling them "scientific facts" is faith and not really science. They are the most credible widely held theories based on current evidence.

Feel free to argue with any "scientific fact" if you are an expert on the subject, but otherwise, it's best to assume that the theories most widely held by experts are probably right, even though some will turn out to not be.

Not arguing with any 'facts' as you would know if you read the post properly.

Merely stating that 'scientific facts' are NOT immutable - ALL facts are dependent on accumulated knowledge therefore it IS immutable that facts may well alter with more knowledge.

This has been proven time and time again.

 

[JB1975]

View attachment 1495898

This thread …

Hey, we don't need your scientific condescension in these parts. Nerd.

 

[jonbe54]

IMHO you've picked the wrong hill to die on this fine morning but thank you for keeping it respectful.

I understand the point you're making about Nazis bending science to align with their doctrine but can't see how this relates to the discussion re: Ginni's headpsace in any meaningful sense.

I think we can all accept that the scientific process works best when a healthy dose of scepticism is applied to the mix but drawing analogies to the holocaust, one of humanity's darkest chapters, to make a point in the Ginnivan thread is in my view an unwarranted stretch; this is only my view as a poster.

Not trying to shut you down, just letting you know your argument is unseemly in my view.

Peace.

Perhaps a quiet word with the original digressive post?

Posters are merely responding to that.

If you find digression on thread unseemly surely the answer is to cut the head off the snake???

 

[gouki88]

No argument with that '76 but over the last 4 or 5 decades there has been a very significant dilution in 'pure science' or anything that smacks of 'unorthodoxy'.

Science is becoming increasingly restricted to following proven and productive lines of investigation.

This is corporate speak for 'show me the money or no funding'.

All of the 'great leaps forward' in human history have been due to pioneering breakthroughs by minds unchained to scientific orthodoxy and the scientific community has turned to penalizing those within it's ranks that 'dilute' corporate ends.

This smacks of a species in decline.

Wtf are you talking about? How many scientists do you know?

The last 4-5 decades have seen more technological breakthroughs than any. The digital age has been completely transformative. We've mapped the human genome. We've made huge leaps in medicine, too many to list here.

This is just complete nonsense.

 

[Cyclops]

Godwin's law operating at full force.

Spoiler: "Le nazis" have appeared

Spoiler: Guise corrupt scientists is a new thing.

Spoiler: Also corrupt scientists is a sure sign of species in decline!

The Thylacine being screwed by a replication crisis. Get woke, go extinct.

Spoiler: Here's some Finnish "scientists" (note the white coats, a telltale sign) administering lead poisoning to Soviet citizens!

As for comparing Ginnivan to Jessie, either White or Pinkman, HOW DARE YOU!

Spoiler: The difference

 

[Vicky Park]

Geezus

 

[jathanas]

Godwin's law operating at full force.

Spoiler: "Le nazis" have appeared

Spoiler: Guise corrupt scientists is a new thing.

Spoiler: Also corrupt scientists is a sure sign of species in decline!

The Thylacine being screwed by a replication crisis. Get woke, go extinct.

Spoiler: Here's some Finnish "scientists" (note the white coats, a telltale sign) administering lead poisoning to Soviet citizens!

View attachment 1495904

As for comparing Ginnivan to Jessie, either White or Pinkman, HOW DARE YOU!

Spoiler: The difference

View attachment 1495913

Kudos good sir.

 

[sr36]

Your whole post is disingenuous.
1. We are talking about FAITH in medical science and how its authority can be corrupted and abused. Putting on a white coat is the perfect example of this. In the context of the discussion, there is nothing inaccurate about this angle whatsover. Your claim that is is though...
2. The Nazi racial theories were adopted by 'science' which then set about "proving" them. They even corrupted archaeology in their attempts to create a scientific basis for these theories.
3. A discussion of sciences key role in the holocaust is in no way insensitive or offensive. Go to Yad Veshyn and you will see that THE official holocaust remembrance and study organisation are happy to have people discussing these matters because it may help avoiding any recurrence. You will also find whole sections devoted to discussing medical sciences key role in the holocaust.

I don't think they'd appreciate the way some try to shut down discussion around the holocaust by saying 'its too sensitive'.

You're mixing everything together and calling it all "science". The following aren't science; they're impediments to scientific theory.

a) Charlatans claiming "science" to help lead people the way they want - Nazi lab coats, or more currently diet wonder plans, or speeches or articles which throw in the phrase "research suggests that" without looking at the supposed research.
b) Faith in non-scientific produced beliefs that have led research in a particular direction - racial theories.

 

[jathanas]

Geezus

DinoSoar went to the trouble of finding a condescending gif to express her dismay.

You having a lazy morning VP?

 

[gouki88]

Your whole post is disingenuous.
1. We are talking about FAITH in medical science and how its authority can be corrupted and abused. Putting on a white coat is the perfect example of this. In the context of the discussion, there is nothing inaccurate about this angle whatsover. Your claim that is is though...
2. The Nazi racial theories were adopted by 'science' which then set about "proving" them. They even corrupted archaeology in their attempts to create a scientific basis for these theories.
3. A discussion of sciences key role in the holocaust is in no way insensitive or offensive. Go to Yad Veshyn and you will see that THE official holocaust remembrance and study organisation are happy to have people discussing these matters because it may help avoiding any recurrence. You will also find whole sections devoted to discussing medical sciences key role in the holocaust.

I don't think they'd appreciate the way some try to shut down discussion around the holocaust by saying 'its too sensitive'.

 

[sideswipe]

DinoSoar went to the trouble of finding a condescending gif to express her dismay.

You having a lazy morning VP?

 

[Scritchyscroony]

There were a lot of Nazis in white coats meeting the transports in the camps. The incoming victims were given the most cursory of medicals to select some labourers among the stronger folk. I have seen this recently in documentary film and also in 'Schindler's List' which I rewatched because I was reminded of the movie by Schindler's Lift technicians, whose vehicles were parked in the basement several days recently while a belt on the middle lift was replaced. In my early days in my apartment building, I had a standard occasional quip in the lifts along the lines of 'I have heard of Schindler's List - perhaps Schindler's Lift is the sequel'.

The belt was to be replaced on a scheduled service back in April but was never ordered far enough ahead in time. The belt didn't arrive till August, so for safety reasons, the lift was out of action for 4 months. This delay was thanks to the mainland Chinese (again) and their infuriating lockdowns at the sound of a citizens sneeze, closing down cities and industries, with chaps in full PPE gear brandishing sticks, chasing corgis and other pets to kindly absolve their sick owners of the responsibility of the animal's care while in lockdown.

However I have no intention of drawing a link between white coats and science.

I was clearly not saying white coats are actual science. This is a disingenuous strawman. The white coats did represent science in the minds of the people. Done in order to calm and gain trust. I can't think of a better example of the dangers of this kind of 'faith' in science.
For most people... Who don't scour over the scientific papers and peer review them.... A white coat IS science. We trust what it tells us.

IMHO you've picked the wrong hill to die on this fine morning but thank you for keeping it respectful.

I understand the point you're making about Nazis bending science to align with their doctrine but can't see how this relates to the discussion re: Ginni's headpsace in any meaningful sense.

I think we can all accept that the scientific process works best when a healthy dose of scepticism is applied to the mix but drawing analogies to the holocaust, one of humanity's darkest chapters, to make a point in the Ginnivan thread is in my view an unwarranted stretch; this is only my view as a poster.

Not trying to shut you down, just letting you know your argument is unseemly in my view.

Peace.

I have no issue whatsoever with you pointing out that this discussion does not belong in the smiley faced Jack Ginnivan thread.
It all took a sharp left turn after jonbe54 came out as a flat earther. I just got a bit carried away as usual. I shall not discuss it further.

 

[gouki88]

It all took a sharp left turn after jonbe54 came out as a flat earther.

Brilliant!

 

[noideaatall]

Jonbe54's chakras were out of alignment. You all got a bit carried away with the realignment process. It's par for the course in a forum which seems more about a p-ing contest than considered opinions on football. Looking at you 76WS.
The question is where Ginni's chakras are at. I doubt a murky photo of a tongue & missing hand is going to have an impact.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

All knowledge is potentially dangerous. It is a tool for good or evil depending on who wields it.

Scientific knowledge isn’t any different, it is simply gained through a rigorous, cumulative process and ideally it’s findings are reproducible.

 

[sideswipe]

All knowledge is potentially dangerous. It is a tool for good or evil depending on who wields it.

Scientific knowledge isn’t any different, it is simply gained through a rigorous, cumulative process and ideally it’s findings are reproducible.

I can't trust you. You don't believe in the efficacy of TENS machines.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

The question is where Ginni's chakras are at. I doubt a murky photo of a tongue & missing hand is going to have an impact.

It looked as though his chakras had malaligned themselves to Ginni’s right thigh. His attempts to realign them were captured in photographic form to educate the chakra-denying heathens. Hopefully they can now consider themselves edumacated.

 

[NMBB]

Jonbe54's chakras were out of alignment. You all got a bit carried away with the realignment process. It's par for the course in a forum which seems more about a p-ing contest than considered opinions on football. Looking at you 76WS.
The question is where Ginni's chakras are at. I doubt a murky photo of a tongue & missing hand is going to have an impact.

I do Chakra alignments - discount rate for players that annoy other supporters

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I can't trust you. You don't believe in the efficacy of TENS machines.

They are the scientific equivalent of rubbing a bit of dirt on it.

A bit of distraction under the guise of Melzack and Wall’s gate control theory of pain. To each their own though.