Play Nice Derailed, (The Place to Continue Off-Topic Discussion)

[sideswipe]

No body should place their hands on anyone without permission. Sexual assault is a vile crime. It doesn't matter what your job is, bodily autonomy is your right. Female strippers are generally very safe. I agree that the media is very grubby and without scruples.

One of my mates ran his own stripper business for years and if a bloke so much as lifted a finger in the general direction of the girl it would be snapped off by a bouncer. However, male strippers get scratched, groped and mauled by their female audience and it is laughed off as girls letting off steam. One of the Mooroolbark player's was a parttime stripper and I know the men faced a far rougher ride than the females do. It's just another double standard.

Your colleague can laugh all she likes. I'd prefer she respond to each of my questions. Which shopping malls and what train line does she use? I'll let the women in my life know so they can avoid them. Ours appear to be safe havens. What is part of the courting process? Groping a girl's breasts? What bloke would ever say that?

You know as well as I do that females grope males in nightclubs. The difference being that any man who reported that a girl had groped him without consent would be laughed out of the cop shop. True story. A male friend of mine was groped at a night club in South Yarra and partly because he was fed up with the double standards he shouted at the girl to keep her hands to herself. He was told by staff to settle down and stop causing a scene. He is hot headed but did nothing physical-he simply continued to ask what was going to be done to the girl who groped him. Guess who get manhandled and removed from the nightclub?

If a bloke squeezes a girls bum and she reports him he will most likely face charges, lose his job and reputation. That's a two tiered justice system and that is wrong in any context whether based on race, religion or gender.

Jesus Domus. You always go too far. This is not a discussion about equality (although what kind of a pussy gets thrown out of a nightclub for kicking up a stink about being grabbed by a chick?), it was about exaggeration.

Yet you can't help yourself trying to make it about your one-man crusade.

 

[Markfs]

My original post said that the media was grubby for bringing it up at this time but its also a chance to say that this behaviour is not on. Which its not, i dont care if it was a stripper or Margaret Thatcher you cant go groping a woman's breast no matter what. I just spoke to my colleague again about your post and she laughed and said that she never expects men to understand that what happens is vile and that it happens constantly almost every time she goes out. She has been told by the guys that this is part of the courting process lol
Let me ask you, should Dusty have groped the stripper just because she is a stripper? would you condone that behaviour and is it a great visual for all Dusty's young supporters out there?

I remember many years ago, some work friends organised a bbq at work for me. A stripper was involved. In some point, I was on my back on the floor with her sitting somewhere around my face and was meanwhile giving me a constant commentary how I wasn't allowed to put hands here or there. Thank god her show finished after the contracted 10 minutes and we could go our separate ways.

I just wish you were there Heath to guide me through the process. I believe that I complied with the instructions of the stripper but it might have helped to have a vigilant observer assisting me.

 

[Markfs]

lol I am just telling you what i have been told by her!! I have never gone out with her as she is in her late 20s but she has shown me multiple texts from different friends all saying this dude wont stop harassing me.

harassing is different from groping....

and why is going out with women in their late 20s so bad eh???????????? not up your typical male standards of beauty??????? typical male!!

 

[sideswipe]

harassing is different from groping....

and why is going out with women in their late 20s so bad eh???????????? not up your typical male standards of beauty??????? typical male!!

Telling a colleague you have posted to social media comments she has made to you and then relaying the online responses is pretty close to putting heater on the naughty step at work.

 

[Markfs]

Telling a colleague you have posted to social media comments she has made to you and then relaying the online responses is pretty close to putting heater on the naughty step at work.

it is borderline and warrants an investigation as to whether privacy provisions have been compromised....

i normally get a signed release from the person involved...

oh btw... I am outraged by this whole episode

 

[HeathySure]

Depends what the one time is - not sure what "being hit upon" might actually mean. It may well be acceptable behaviour.

But whatever it is, it isn't happening everytime, which is what it means when she says she can't anywhere without being hit upon... You should learn to ask a second question.

lol you moron i had a full on discussion with her and was very skeptical. I was reporting exactly what she told me and no offence but i would rather believe someone who was experiencing this type of behavior than a older man who denies that it happens. This is exactly the response that she told me would happen. I am done with this conversation because "it doesnt happen every time"

 

[HeathySure]

I think your colleague is an attention seeker or she hangs out in the back streets of St Kilda all day.

So your friend goes to the supermarket or Myers or the fish n chip shop and gets groped by strangers almost every time and gets told "don't worry, I'm just courting you"? - it doesn't sound realistic.

My kids are early 20's (one female) and the only time you could say that this groping type behaviour is a common thing is at nightclubs on the dance floor.

it shouldnt happen at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sideswipe]

lol you moron i had a full on discussion with her and was very skeptical. I was reporting exactly what she told me and no offence but i would rather believe someone who was experiencing this type of behavior than a older man who denies that it happens. This is exactly the response that she told me would happen. I am done with this conversation because "it doesnt happen every time"

Maybe the moron is the fella who believed the patent b/s that your pal was spinning. No one was denying abhorrent behaviour occurs - just the assertion that someone can't go anywhere without it happening. And still struggling to understand what being hit upon exactly means. It's a rather nebulous term.

But you won't address that either. Because you would prefer to leave a steaming turd of a post on the front step and then refuse to have it examined.

 

[sideswipe]

lol you moron i had a full on discussion with her and was very skeptical. I was reporting exactly what she told me and no offence but i would rather believe someone who was experiencing this type of behavior than a older man who denies that it happens. This is exactly the response that she told me would happen. I am done with this conversation because "it doesnt happen every time"

BTW, when did I deny it happens? I certainly refute the contention that she can't go "anywhere" without it happening. Think that'll do. You are a good believer.

 

[sr36]

it shouldnt happen at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, but we all have to live in the real world. I don't know why we'd create fantasy worlds where unconsensual groping doesn't occur or fantasy worlds where groping occurs every time a women walks out in public.

 

[Kirby]

it shouldnt happen at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you're talking non-consensually then duhhhh

But she claims it happens nearly every time she goes anywhere and I'm saying flat-out that this is BS. That's what I am saying.

You are the one who posted the rubbish like it was supposed to be reflective of the common experience.

 

[Markfs]

i think heath's female friend

lol you moron i had a full on discussion with her and was very skeptical. I was reporting exactly what she told me and no offence but i would rather believe someone who was experiencing this type of behavior than a older man who denies that it happens. This is exactly the response that she told me would happen. I am done with this conversation because "it doesnt happen every time"

Heath, you might have noticed recently that some rap artistics have withdrawn songs because they have lyrics that contain words such as moron. The use of this kind of language is not acceptable in modern life....

 

[Sea fog]

No body should place their hands on anyone without permission. Sexual assault is a vile crime. It doesn't matter what your job is, bodily autonomy is your right. Female strippers are generally very safe. I agree that the media is very grubby and without scruples.

One of my mates ran his own stripper business for years and if a bloke so much as lifted a finger in the general direction of the girl it would be snapped off by a bouncer. However, male strippers get scratched, groped and mauled by their female audience and it is laughed off as girls letting off steam. One of the Mooroolbark player's was a parttime stripper and I know the men faced a far rougher ride than the females do. It's just another double standard.

Your colleague can laugh all she likes. I'd prefer she respond to each of my questions. Which shopping malls and what train line does she use? I'll let the women in my life know so they can avoid them. Ours appear to be safe havens. What is part of the courting process? Groping a girl's breasts? What bloke would ever say that?

You know as well as I do that females grope males in nightclubs. The difference being that any man who reported that a girl had groped him without consent would be laughed out of the cop shop. True story. A male friend of mine was groped at a night club in South Yarra and partly because he was fed up with the double standards he shouted at the girl to keep her hands to herself. He was told by staff to settle down and stop causing a scene. He is hot headed but did nothing physical-he simply continued to ask what was going to be done to the girl who groped him. Guess who get manhandled and removed from the nightclub?

If a bloke squeezes a girls bum and she reports him he will most likely face charges, lose his job and reputation. That's a two tiered justice system and that is wrong in any context whether based on race, religion or gender.

Shane Crawford did highlight this years ago in the doc he made. There have also been cases where when a young man took a groping allegation to justice, he was told by the magistrate that all his Christmases had come at once. There has been until recently, actual reports and cases, where female teachers in relationships with male students have been treated more leniently than the reverse.

 

[gerryg400]

Your initial post was clearly an exaggeration of the highest order. From either you, your colleague or both. The below is clearly over the top.

"...she cannot go out anywhere, shops, nightclubs, bars, public transport etc without someone going up to her and hitting on her and that groping happened a lot too.."

Really? For once, Domey is on the money by calling out this alarmist garbage. No one in their right mind thinks that women being treated poorly is acceptable, but to suggest some poor damsel is having to deal with being "hit upon"(nebulous term) anywhere she goes is just b/s and does not do anything to further the discussion.

Do better.

If I heard the bolded claim from a woman I’m sure I would think she didn’t really mean it to be taken literally. I’m sure I would think that she meant that it happens too often. To me this type of exaggeration is an acceptable way for her to describe her experience.

 

[sideswipe]

If I heard the bolded claim from a woman I’m sure I would think she didn’t really mean it to be taken literally. I’m sure I would think that she meant that it happens too often. To me this type of exaggeration is an acceptable way for her to describe her experience.

I disagree - accepting exaggerated claims may lead to all sorts of problems, including accusations of cry wolf at a later date. Best to be precise when talking about serious matters.

 

[No SPIN]

lol I am just telling you what i have been told by her!! I have never gone out with her as she is in her late 20s but she has shown me multiple texts from different friends all saying this dude wont stop harassing me.

I can guarantee there are places in Melb and in every city where trouble is almost inevitable. We all therefore take care or choose to avoid those areas or places.
Social venues are no different- your daughter is correct if visiting these places, that an incident will almost certainly occur.

But that’s not to say it happens everywhere.

 

[Markfs]

I suspect that heath's friend made a pre-emptive attack to convince heath any form of groping by heath or any attempts to pursue a liaison, would not be tolerated...

Heath mightn't be very experienced about the methods of females but I assure him that almost ALL females use this technique to ward away unwanted approaches by men that they find unattractive...

 

[sideswipe]

I can guarantee there are places in Melb and in every city where trouble is almost inevitable. We all therefore take care or choose to avoid those areas or places.
Social venues are no different- your daughter is correct if visiting these places, that an incident will almost certainly occur.

But that’s not to say it happens everywhere.

Once again, accuracy please. Heath's colleague wasn't specifying certain places, it was a blanket "anywhere".

 

[Pie eyed]

You def should read some more genuine history. You didn't know about the role of medical science in the holocaust??

There's a reason Nazis who addressed transport arrivals wore white lab coats. Despite often not being doctors, they would don the lab coat before addressing the new arrivals.

T4 program is a good starting point for a review of your unassailable faith in "science". I can give you many more.

Human psychology doesn't change much. History is your friend .. it's echoes and informs... Try some.

I think you are confusing faith in "authority" with faith in science.
Ask why hundreds of thousands stood on the edge of pits to be shot, not even raising a hand, minutes after watching hundreds of others meeting the same fate.

Blind faith in anything is fatal.
Science has absolutely nothing to do with faith, it is a common fraud of the religious zealot to imply it does.

 

[HeathySure]

Once again, accuracy please. Heath's colleague wasn't specifying certain places, it was a blanket "anywhere".

I wasnt going to reply to these idiotic replies but she was reading them cos i showed her and she was laughing and said these are the guys who call me a effing whore when i tell them to leave me alone.

 

[Kirby]

I wasnt going to reply to these idiotic replies but she was reading them cos i showed her and she was laughing and said these are the guys who call me a effing whore when i tell them to leave me alone.

She sounds like a real peach.

 

[sideswipe]

I wasnt going to reply to these idiotic replies but she was reading them cos i showed her and she was laughing and said these are the guys who call me a effing whore when i tell them to leave me alone.

Well, I am happy to call her an exaggerator. Anymore than that would require further and better particulars. As for idiotic, well, go ahead and demonstrate the idiocy if you will?

 

[noideaatall]

I think you are confusing faith in "authority" with faith in science.
Ask why hundreds of thousands stood on the edge of pits to be shot, not even raising a hand, minutes after watching hundreds of others meeting the same fate.

Blind faith in anything is fatal.
Science has absolutely nothing to do with faith, it is a common fraud of the religious zealot to imply it does.

It is hard for any of us to understand why anyone would accept their imminent demise seemingly without a struggle. Most of us don't live in that mental environment. I am not to convinced with the wording "faith in authority" as apposed to a sense of hopelessness and avoidance of further pain. I wasn't there, I have no idea.

Science is not about faith, it is about a body of knowledge built through a method. That knowledge does not answer all questions, no body of knowledge does so humans require faith to fill the gaps. For those humans whose belief system is based on science, faith is about assuming science is on the right track and will fill the gaps. To state science is nothing to do with faith is ignoring the relationship many humans have with science.

 

[gerryg400]

I disagree - accepting exaggerated claims may lead to all sorts of problems, including accusations of cry wolf at a later date. Best to be precise when talking about serious matters.

If an actual allegation is being made, of course precision is required but I still feel the language is acceptable in a conversation between acquaintances. Surely you’ve heard exaggeration used this way before and understood the meaning. I believe it’s quite common.

 

[sideswipe]

If an actual allegation is being made, of course precision is required but I still feel the language is acceptable in a conversation between acquaintances. Surely you’ve heard exaggeration used this way before and understood the meaning. I believe it’s quite common.

The assertion was that someone can't go anywhere without it(still questioning what "being hit on" means) happening. If you can't accept that is patent and nebulous b/s, then let's just leave it. Words are important.