Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

[Sillygit]

Gotta say, from what I know about trauma informed practice and mental health therapy in general, none of this seems in any way helpful for Amy.

Seems more likely that it is reinforcing the perception that the trauma is unassailable, cannot be engaged with unless the absolute perfect circumstances are met, and that depends entirely on perception. Just raises the barrier higher and higher, no less molding the truama into a defining aspect of her as an individual.

Claiming the AFL's proposal is unsafe, that perspective from the lawyer seems potentially unsafe to me.

 

[KickItAnywhere34]

Yeah the article is problematic. The whole "trauma victims have no obligations whatsoever" bit, whilst well-intentioned, is very abstract/idealist at best. Now I agree Amy has no obligation to participate in the process. I have no doubt she is a trauma victim and doesn't wish to relive her trauma. I have no doubt the AFL want this to go away as quickly and quietly as possible. But "no obligations whatsoever..." — one person's trauma is another's bad day ya know? If merely labelling yourself as X discharges any obligations you have towards a process in which you are centrally involved and even society more broadly...well I dunno, sounds awfully individualistic and neoliberal-capitalist-informed to me. This sort of identity politics serves no-one except the capitalist infrastructure that first contributes to and then profits from people's pain.

Rich soft-left do-gooders throwing terms around so liberally that they can be applied to anyone and anything and mean anything at all...I don't see how this helps enact processes and structures that materially contribute to anti-racist action.

That’s a pretty fair summation - I think we all agree that to name names via anonymous allegations is poor form when you couple that with now wanting to remove yourself from any investigation that attempts to find the truth or close to it.

 

[justroyal]

It would be good if we could find out if the AFL panel members, both female and the First Nations spokesperson also felt it was ‘unsafe’ or could weigh in on the safety of it.

 

[Tectonic]

That piece by the guy from Marque reads to me like they got their version of events into the public, so mission accomplished. Up to the afl what they do with it now. Which is fair enough but that's honestly not going to change anything at all. People will hitch their wagons to the cause for a few months and the elite sports machine will continue to consume talented youths from all walks of life

 

[Del191229]

Yep not sure what was said in that alleged phone call actually happened.

I'm fine believing the phone call happened.

I just don't think it happened because Clarkson took him into a room, leaned over him and shouted at him.

I think Ian broke up with her voluntarily and said she should get an abortion because he wanted her to get one.

 

[Del191229]

That piece by the guy from Marque reads to me like they got their version of events into the public, so mission accomplished. Up to the afl what they do with it now. Which is fair enough but that's honestly not going to change anything at all. People will hitch their wagons to the cause for a few months and the elite sports machine will continue to consume talented youths from all walks of life

Him saying "her truth and it won't be changing" and that others are welcome to challenge it is an open admission it isn't THE truth, or fact.

 

[r_boy]

This very well could be her honest recollection of events.

This article is clearly pre-empting what's going to come out.

Still think this story is more about the lack of approachability of the club and the AFL generally.

 

[JGreezy]

This article is clearly pre-empting what's going to come out.

Still think this story is more about the lack of approachability of the club and the AFL generally.

Yeah, I mean she is a position where she can just decline any further involvement. If things go Clarko's way then she can avoid any defamation issues because she was just saying what her boyfriend told her.

 

[shintemaster]

Not eally relevant but just a little peeve of mine - when did this "speaking YOUR/MY/THEIR truth" become a thing? Have noticed this phrase only in the last 4-5 years but it always sounded weird to me. I was always of the view that the term was "speaking the truth" in pertaining to yourself or others but it seems for whatever reason people use that other phrase now

Can't speak to the evolution of this however it is worth pointing out that current science indicates that this actually is an accurate way to describe truth. Our brains and our recollections are far from infallible and eyewitness accounts - regularly treated as the gold standard - are now considered extremely malleable to influence, time, health and mis reconstruction. The term is arguably quite accurate.

It is not unlikely that in this particular example these allegations can be recalled completely differently from different parties who all believe 100% in their recollection of events. That can but doesn't necessarily indicate lying or mistruth - as weird as that is to get our heads around.

 

[Del191229]

Yeah, I mean she is a position where she can just decline any further involvement. If things go Clarko's way then she can avoid any defamation issues because she was just saying what her boyfriend told her.

I don't think she avoids defamation risk entirely.

She told an ABC reporter that Clarkson orders people to have abortions.

 

[My Left Foote]

Can't speak to the evolution of this however it is worth pointing out that current science indicates that this actually is an accurate way to describe truth. Our brains and our recollections are far from infallible and eyewitness accounts - regularly treated as the gold standard - are now considered extremely malleable to influence, time, health and mis reconstruction. The term is arguably quite accurate.

It is not unlikely that in this particular example these allegations can be recalled completely differently from different parties who all believe 100% in their recollection of events. That can but doesn't necessarily indicate lying or mistruth - as weird as that is to get our heads around.

How Your Memory Changes Every Time You Access It​

The fallibility of memory is something that is now well documented and publicized. Like it or not, you can’t trust the contents of your brain and this is considered verbatim in a court of law…

How Your Memory Changes Every Time You Access It – HealthGuidance.org

www.healthguidance.org

 

[Del191229]

A lot is being invested in the assistant coach who approached Egan to verify stuff.

Said assistant coach had left Hawthorn well before Ian arrived.

They're not verifying shit about the abortion stuff.

 

[Jeremy Jordan]

Wait, so we have her truth, his truth, and their truth. Which our brains are telling each party that their memory of the truth, is the real truth.
And we therefore need to investigate this to see who’s truth is the truth, although it won’t really be the answer, as the other party’s truth, is their truth?

Can see this investigation ending smoothly…..

 

[Kangaroos techno]

This saga may or may not lead to a meaningful, league-wide step forward, but one thing that will further entrench prejudices and absolutely ensure that nothing changes is victim-blaming. It is entirely possible to feel that - for a bunch of reasons - Clarko has been dealt a bad hand here, without having to lapse into attacking the complainants and trying to ignore, discredit or downplay the trauma they claim to have suffered.

Likewise for Clarkson when people were pointing the finger at him early days. Unsurprisingly a few posters are/were quick to jump to the defence of the victims but were absent when Sonja and Clarkson were getting kicked. No one is playing a straight bat when highlighting the victim-blaming is one-sided. Just another way for a few in here to play up how they feel they are on the moral high ground over others.

Some might have to do a bit of this if Clarkson comes out of this innocent and Sonja was proven correct in her judgement:

 

[Del191229]

From what I can tell, the assistant coach would only be able to provide first hand insight into the Zac and Kylie stuff.

Yet Jackson's reporting has no suggestion that anyone else apart from Clsrkson, Fagan and Burt was present when the key meetings were had.

 

[DocSholl]

That piece by the guy from Marque reads to me like they got their version of events into the public, so mission accomplished. Up to the afl what they do with it now. Which is fair enough but that's honestly not going to change anything at all. People will hitch their wagons to the cause for a few months and the elite sports machine will continue to consume talented youths from all walks of life

Suspect he has realised they won't be able to prove the most egregious allegations and is instead going for the "powerful white guys will always win" angle.

 

[koshari]

Wait, so we have her truth, his truth, and their truth. Which our brains are telling each party that their memory of the truth, is the real truth.
And we therefore need to investigate this to see who’s truth is the truth, although it won’t really be the answer, as the other party’s truth, is their truth?

Can see this investigation ending smoothly…..

confusing isnt it,

from a legal viewpoint we could also have "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth"

or this,



or my favorite,



afaik they never got to the bottom of that poor tennis girls lesbian terror?

 

[Del191229]

Likewise for Clarkson when people were pointing the finger at him early days. Unsurprisingly a few posters are/were quick to jump to the defence of the victims but were absent when Sonja and Clarkson were getting kicked. No one is playing a straight bat when highlighting the victim-blaming is one-sided. Just another way for a few in here to play up how they feel they are on the moral high ground over others.

Some might have to do a bit of this if Clarkson comes out of this innocent and Sonja was proven correct in her judgement:

She backed Majak to the hilt when racist dog cops went for him, and was completely vindicated.

 

[KickItAnywhere34]

I'm fine believing the phone call happened.

I just don't think it happened because Clarkson took him into a room, leaned over him and shouted at him.

I think Ian broke up with her voluntarily and said she should get an abortion because he wanted her to get one.

Yep 100% agree - there was a call - but the contents of the call as alleged is a LOT different to the actual call.

 

[Del191229]

And when did he make his "later account". From what I can see, happy to be corrected, it's only in Jackson's story that the claim appears.

Correcting myself that it's also in Egan's report.

 

[Jeremy Jordan]

confusing isnt it,

from a legal viewpoint we could also have "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth"

or this,

View attachment 1548624

or my favorite,

View attachment 1548625

afaik they never got to the bottom of that poor tennis girls lesbian terror?

Night of the living lesbians

 

[Rooboys Rool]

Can't speak to the evolution of this however it is worth pointing out that current science indicates that this actually is an accurate way to describe truth. Our brains and our recollections are far from infallible and eyewitness accounts - regularly treated as the gold standard - are now considered extremely malleable to influence, time, health and mis reconstruction. The term is arguably quite accurate.

It is not unlikely that in this particular example these allegations can be recalled completely differently from different parties who all believe 100% in their recollection of events. That can but doesn't necessarily indicate lying or mistruth - as weird as that is to get our heads around.

So pretty much it just boils down to this:

 

[Boner Spirit]

confusing isnt it,

from a legal viewpoint we could also have "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth"

or this,

View attachment 1548624

or my favorite,

View attachment 1548625

afaik they never got to the bottom of that poor tennis girls lesbian terror?

The hardest part was sneaking it from dad's grasp to gig at page 3 and pour over heart balm.

 

[Samsquanch]

The hardest part was sneaking it from dad's grasp to gig at page 3 and pour over heart balm.

I heard from a good authority that Hojuman wrote most of the heart balm letters for a laugh after conducting a thourough examination of the page three subjects.

Remember: It's not a lie if you belive it.

Or if you repeat it often enough.

 

[Hojuman]

I heard from a good authority that Hojuman wrote most of the heart balm letters for a laugh after conducting a thourough examination of the page three subjects.

Remember: It's not a lie if you belive it.

Or if you repeat it often enough.

" Mrs. Smith and her night shift working husband moved in next door last weekend. She was much younger than him with long hair to her waist and........"