2022 Hawthorn List Management Discussion (including Trade, FA period)

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Thanks for the ground-breaking diagnosis, Doc. 😉

Wasn’t that outlandish a statement given there’s a poster or two who are never-ending in their claims that both Kosi and Jeka will find fortune at the ends of the ground they were originally drafted as but subsequently switched from.
 
I hope Ramsden can develop into a forward who chips in with some ruck work rather than the other way around. He's 202 cm tall, great once the ball hits the ground, and good mobility and tank. I don't think he could be a number 1 forward, but maybe like Lobb for Freo (or now the Bulldogs) could be a very challenging match up with his height/ability on ground especially if he is taking a 2nd or 3rd defender. Hopefully with 5 on the bench now this could make this more likely, as if we longer term go for 2 rucks + Lewis/Ramsden as the starting forwards then we could sub one off later in the game.

If he is more of a ruck who chips in up forward we'll have some work to do to prevent other clubs who scour the lists of opposition clubs looking for this exact type of player from poaching him.
 

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Wasn’t that outlandish a statement given there’s a poster or two who are never-ending in their claims that both Kosi and Jeka will find fortune at the ends of the ground they were originally drafted as but subsequently switched from.

Didn't Jeka play defence the last half of his draft year and excelled?
 
Didn't Jeka play defence the last half of his draft year and excelled?
Didn't excel much at any stage of his last year and a half / two years prior to being drafted. Reason he slipped from potential top 10 pick in the U16s to a rookie when he was drafted.
 
Didn't Jeka play defence the last half of his draft year and excelled?
Not really.

He played a bit in defence after the championships as a means of trying to get him drafted as a versatile “utility”. It was common knowledge he lacked aggression / intensity.

The fact he slipped to the rookie draft would suggest he didn’t excel.
 
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He didn't excel, otherwise he would not have lasted until the rookie draft

Was expected to go mid draft from all reports. We obviously liked him as we snapped him up with our first pick I the rookie draft. We could have taken him with our last pick in the ND but obviously liked Tank more (who I believe has more upside).
 
Jeka has played 7 AFL games and only just turned 21(most of the year played as a 20 year old). Plus the covid saga.... I'm not saying he'll definitely make it but there seems to be a weird negativity about the kid. Also, his form at Box Hill was excellent. Anyway carry on.
I'm not being negative on him. I'm not saying he should or will be delisted in 2 years time based on what he's achieved up until now. I'm contesting that he'll be safe from being delisted in 2 years if he's barely improved in that time simply because he's big and has talent, nor will he be safe even if we don't have similar types coming through at the time.

I desperately want Jeka to make it at Hawthorn. He's got the size and talent to be a star KPP. He just currently lacks on the mental side of the game. The drive and focus to apply his talent consistently throughout games at AFL level. If he can find that then he's easily best 22.

But currently he's not best 22 in the senior team. And he's yet to prove that he can consistently contribute at the top level. He's still young so he'll get some more time to develop. But if there's no progress in 2 years time then I don't see why anyone (ie. Coach Killer) would think he'd not be vulnerable to delisting.

If in 2 years time he hasn't improved and there's no other big KPP coming through then it doesn't necessarily mean we double down and give him another year. We might, but if it's become a critical list need then we can simply trade/free agent/draft a replacement.
 
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Excluding rucks, mature age rookies, after 5-6 AFL pre-seasons a player who's on our main list should be looking to have hit that 30-50 game mark.

Sam has brought up a few times the 30 and 50 game milestones. By 30 games a player should feel comfortable at AFL level, have a good idea what they bring to the team and can consistently produce it. By 50 games they've found multiple ways they can help the team and they'll generally be looking to be a regular in the 22.

Jeka is on 7 games after 3 pre-seasons. Same as Cooper Stephens. However Stephens has been at a club with a strong, deep midfield that has been competing for flags. Jeka has been at a club that during that same time has been down the ladder and has had KPP spots up for grabs.

To ensure he stays on the list in 2 years time I think Jeka (if he stays fit) needs to hit at least 30 games and ideally he's well on the way to 50 during his 6th season. Same goes for Morris, Greene, Stephens and Maginness. The latter two at least should easily accomplish that. Seamus Mitchell will also need to make up for lost time and truth be told probably needs to show something this year.
 
Had we not signed him, other clubs would have. Dodo was eyeing him of as a CHB option for the Dons.
Not a great sign that he will make it if Dodo wants him
 
Was expected to go mid draft from all reports. We obviously liked him as we snapped him up with our first pick I the rookie draft. We could have taken him with our last pick in the ND but obviously liked Tank more (who I believe has more upside).
Obviously those “reports” weren’t accurate, as the reality was he didn’t get drafted in the national draft.

The knock on him from the start was between the ears (attitude / intensity) and that’s proven to be the issue in the 3 years.

Whilst he was promoted to the senior list at the end of 2021, the fact is he didn’t demand a call up from Box Hill as a KPF. So our “break glass “ to see if he could be jolted into action was to play him in defence and force him to get out of his comfort zone.

Time will tell if that was a “dead cat bounce” or the trigger required to get the best out of him.
 

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Obviously those “reports” weren’t accurate, as the reality was he didn’t get drafted in the national draft.

The knock on him from the start was between the ears (attitude / intensity) and that’s proven to be the issue in the 3 years.

Whilst he was promoted to the senior list at the end of 2021, the fact is he didn’t demand a call up from Box Hill as a KPF. So our “break glass “ to see if he could be jolted into action was to play him in defence and force him to get out of his comfort zone.

Time will tell if that was a “dead cat bounce” or the trigger required to get the best out of him.

Doesn’t help when he has insufferable nuffies defending his honour online. Same happened with Billy Hartung and that didn’t end well. Similarly for Teia Miles who had his mate mouth off online about his non-selection on the social media channels. These people don’t help their family/friends at all.

Hopefully, for his sake and ours, Jeka is doing the right thing and listening to the coaching staff - not those who just want to pump up his tires and shield him from constructive criticism.
 
Could be 1-5; could be 5-1. Very hard to predict our form-line given the inexperience of the team.
Jon Ralph posted that we could be 3-3 at Round 6, so it’s good that there’s a middle ground.
 
Jon Ralph posted that we could be 3-3 at Round 6, so it’s good that there’s a middle ground.
I suspect this is far more likely to occur, as it has been the case in the past 4 seasons anyhow.

Start as a competitive unit, but as the season wears on a few injuries could hurt more with the young list than if we had more experienced players running around.

Temper expectations but don’t concede we won’t be competitive in the first couple of months.
 
Reckon we might see a bit more of that Sicily into the midfield business this season.

That really high defender with vision and long range kicking was a really great move until we had to pull the cord to get Tom Lynch under control. I'd like to see it more against teams without such a dominant marking KPF.
 
Reckon we might see a bit more of that Sicily into the midfield business this season.

That really high defender with vision and long range kicking was a really great move until we had to pull the cord to get Tom Lynch under control. I'd like to see it more against teams without such a dominant marking KPF.
I think this is also a position/role Weddle could fill in time if his game sense and kicking can get to those Sicily levels.
 
I think this is also a position/role Weddle could fill in time if his game sense and kicking can get to those Sicily levels.
That's a big hurdle for young Weddle to jump considering Sicily is probably the best kick in the leauge and has elite game sense 🤪

I see Weddle as more of an ultra athlete footballer who can play all across the ground, our own version of Kouta if you will.

Kouta probably wasn't a natural footballer in a lot of ways but he was just so much quicker and stronger than everyone else he didn't have to worry much about the finer points of footy.
 
Reckon we might see a bit more of that Sicily into the midfield business this season.

That really high defender with vision and long range kicking was a really great move until we had to pull the cord to get Tom Lynch under control. I'd like to see it more against teams without such a dominant marking KPF.
Sicily was awful in the midfield. Let's keep the mantra on working to your elite strengths.
 
Sicily was awful in the midfield. Let's keep the mantra on working to your elite strengths.
He played all of 2 quarters……

It’s not a bad idea. Ideally off a wing though, so he can roll back as 7th defender. I’d rather he kick it 60m from 90m out to 30m in front of goal than from 140m out to centre wing. We’d get more value then.

NB: He’s got no history whatsoever playing at the stoppage with contest / structure and I don’t think he’d be much good when the ball hits the deck in tight. Not a big one for laying a tackle is he?

So a defensive (positioned) wing role makes sense to me.
 
He played all of 2 quarters……

It’s not a bad idea. Ideally off a wing though, so he can roll back as 7th defender. I’d rather he kick it 60m from 90m out to 30m in front of goal than from 140m out to centre wing. We’d get more value then.

NB: He’s got no history whatsoever playing at the stoppage with contest / structure and I don’t think he’d be much good when the ball hits the deck in tight. Not a big one for laying a tackle is he?

So a defensive (positioned) wing role makes sense to me.
I think i would prefer to see him play off the back flank, fingers crossed Blankt and Jeka come good. He could float up the ground a bit like a HHB intercepting at will. Though i think the early part of the season he will be our Half Back and set the tone and example as Captain. A few sneaky goals would be icing on the cake.
 
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