2022 Hawthorn List Management Discussion (including Trade, FA period)

[KermitJagger]

Sicily was awful in the midfield. Let's keep the mantra on working to your elite strengths.

Sicily was fine in the midfield, we were terrible with Sicily in the midfield.

 

[HedgeFund]

I think i would prefer to see him play off the back flank

He can join the queue - we’ve already got about 15 half back flankers haven’t we?

 

[Steven Tyler]

He can join the queue - we’ve already got about 15 half back flankers haven’t we?

Let’s put our best half back flankers on the half back flank

 

[Brant]

Reckon we might see a bit more of that Sicily into the midfield business this season. That really high defender with vision and long range kicking was a really great move until we had to pull the cord to get Tom Lynch under control. I'd like to see it more against teams without such a dominant marking KPF.

Need a forward + midfield that defends across our HF line, forcing the opposition kick the ball out of our Forwardline.

If they run it out, they'll run straight past Sicily & we'll be left short in defence (see: Richmond game).

If opposition is forced to clear long by foot, Sicily will clean up & send it back in with interest!

 

[Yardie]

Sicily was fine in the midfield, we were terrible with Sicily in the midfield.

Not sure what you mean by this but he showed no midfield craft and actually made our midfield look worse. He made what is considered the worst midfield look worse.

We just drafted/traded in/free agency a heap of midfielders. Let's use them instead.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Reckon we might see a bit more of that Sicily into the midfield business this season.

That really high defender with vision and long range kicking was a really great move until we had to pull the cord to get Tom Lynch under control. I'd like to see it more against teams without such a dominant marking KPF.

An option for flexability

R: Reeves Sicily Hardwick ?

 

[cryptor]

An option for flexability

R: Reeves Sicily Hardwick ?

I don't know if he'll make the move to on ball. A high CHB seems like a good middle ground. Would allow him to support the midfield better while still playing a lot of the role that should have made him AA.

 

[Topiary]

An option for flexability

R: Reeves Sicily Hardwick ?

I like, but who is the other small other than Morris that can play back. They don’t exist. Would love to get Hardwicke up the ground.

Sicily won’t play up the ground.

 

[KermitJagger]

Not sure what you mean by this but he showed no midfield craft and actually made our midfield look worse. He made what is considered the worst midfield look worse.

We just drafted/traded in/free agency a heap of midfielders. Let's use them instead.

Sicily's 6 CBAs weren't the reason Dion Prestia had as many clearances as our 3 best that game. Shock horror that our midfield was just as bad the next game without him in there.

Like I said, Sicily was fine as a midfielder but it was removing him from defense that made us worse, not the making him part of the midfield rotation bit.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

An option for flexability

R: Reeves Sicily Hardwick ?

We have so many genuine midfielders to give games to and develop together now.

I doubt very much that we see Sicily in the middle more than once or twice in 2023, and even less so with Hardwick.

 

[arupist]

Let’s put our best half back flankers on the half back flank

That is just crazy talk. WTF are you thinking? For that matter, WTF are you smoking?

 

[Steven Tyler]

That is just crazy talk. WTF are you thinking? For that matter, WTF are you smoking?

Common sense just ain’t that common

 

[Simon Crawshay]

My take on Sicily is that even just from that very limited example of him playing in the middle against the Tigers he would be our second best mid behind Jai.

That sounds hyberoble but he had 30 possessions and 9 marks that game. The guy is so ridiculously talented he could play anywhere and dominate (except funnily enough as a forward).

But if we move him to the middle we lose the best CHB in the league and our only backman who can nullify the big dogs like Lynch, King, etc.

So he won't play much midfield time until we get a capable backup CHB (possibly DGB?)

I would personally like to see him play midfield a bit more if possible, he would be such a unique option to rotate through the middle. And he could bang through more of those 60m goals, those always make me smile.

 

[JZedd]

I'm not being negative on him. I'm not saying he should or will be delisted in 2 years time based on what he's achieved up until now. I'm contesting that he'll be safe from being delisted in 2 years if he's barely improved in that time simply because he's big and has talent, nor will he be safe even if we don't have similar types coming through at the time.

I desperately want Jeka to make it at Hawthorn. He's got the size and talent to be a star KPP. He just currently lacks on the mental side of the game. The drive and focus to apply his talent consistently throughout games at AFL level. If he can find that then he's easily best 22.

But currently he's not best 22 in the senior team. And he's yet to prove that he can consistently contribute at the top level. He's still young so he'll get some more time to develop. But if there's no progress in 2 years time then I don't see why anyone (ie. Coach Killer) would think he'd not be vulnerable to delisting.

If in 2 years time he hasn't improved and there's no other big KPP coming through then it doesn't necessarily mean we double down and give him another year. We might, but if it's become a critical list need then we can simply trade/free agent/draft a replacement.

Yep, agree. Good post.

 

[Yardie]

My take on Sicily is that even just from that very limited example of him playing in the middle against the Tigers he would be our second best mid behind Jai.

That sounds hyberoble but he had 30 possessions and 9 marks that game. The guy is so ridiculously talented he could play anywhere and dominate (except funnily enough as a forward).

But if we move him to the middle we lose the best CHB in the league and our only backman who can nullify the big dogs like Lynch, King, etc.

So he won't play much midfield time until we get a capable backup CHB (possibly DGB?)

I would personally like to see him play midfield a bit more if possible, he would be such a unique option to rotate through the middle. And he could bang through more of those 60m goals, those always make me smile.

I'm really stumped as to what you saw with him in the midfield. He looked lost and the structure fell apart. But I'll defer to Sam if he wants him to play in the midfield.

 

[Topiary]

I would like to see Dimma given the chance as a small forward. He is a beautiful kick, has reasonable wheels, knows from experience what good forwards do and above all, has mongrel. But this ambition is limited by the fact we don’t have small defenders on the List who could replace him down back. Other than Josh Morris, we just don’t have that collateral. (Morris and Hardwicke playing together worked and enhanced Dimma’s game)

Perhaps we find a Dimma replacement to allow him to play forward ??? As an example, imagine him and Gresham both forward. Ideal replacement for Bruester. He is the natural Poppy in my view.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Perhaps we find a Dimma replacement to allow him to play forward ??

Don’t mind your line of thinking at all - but finding another elite (yes, I said it) small defender like Dimma who is (in my opinion but not the AA selectors) the best player in his position in the league is not going to be an easy feat.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I'm really stumped as to what you saw with him in the midfield. He looked lost and the structure fell apart. But I'll defer to Sam if he wants him to play in the midfield.

I don't think it was Sic's fault the structure fell, it only makes sense that losing the best defender (going to the midfield) will throw out the defensive structure, Sicily played pretty well as a mid and extra around stoppage.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I don’t see Hardwick playing forward. He did for a stint a couple of years back, and looked ordinary. He’s not broken, and doesn’t need fixing.

 

[Accipiter]

I'm really stumped as to what you saw with him in the midfield. He looked lost and the structure fell apart. But I'll defer to Sam if he wants him to play in the midfield.

In my view his greatest value to the team is half back where he can see the game unfold and provide some generalship. I'd rather not tinker with something that isn't broken.

Interesting comments about putting Dimma up forward, he joined as a quality fwd from the U18 so obviously has some fwd-craft.

What has me excited is that we are starting to talk about aggressive options, as opposed to scratching our heads and wondering how we are going to plug holes. Not saying there aren't any holes but how good is it to have some chess pieces to throw around the board, even if only hypothetically ....

 

[theiaofseed]

I don’t see Hardwick playing forward. He did for a stint a couple of years back, and looked ordinary. He’s not broken, and doesn’t need fixing.

No point in shuffling a key pillar to maybe patch work another position. You don't rob Paul to pay Peter

 

[Topiary]

Don’t mind your line of thinking at all - but finding another elite (yes, I said it) small defender like Dimma who is (in my opinion but not the AA selectors) the best player in his position in the league is not going to be an easy feat.

Could not agree more. An aspiration that will be difficult to achieve, but one that I would wholeheartedly endorse as it makes us naturally more dangerous and difficult to combat. Some will say it is moving an asset forward with little to replace him with, but I reckon it is worthy of a List project.
Surely aspirations of a premiership team.

 

[Topiary]

I don’t see Hardwick playing forward. He did for a stint a couple of years back, and looked ordinary. He’s not broken, and doesn’t need fixing.

I reckon the last foray was based on more hope than anything else. Not sure it was given enough time, perseverance and credence.
He was a fine junior forward and a much better and committed player now. Understands it much better. Just ask him !!

But I get your point.

 

[Yardie]

I reckon the last foray was based on more hope than anything else. He was a fine junior forward and a much better and committed player now. Understands it better. Just ask him !!

But I get your point.

Pies supporter down at the park son played junior footy with Dimma. He is still filthy that we "waste" him down back.

 

[cs61]

What I would like seeing is Scrimshaw, Hardwick, Sicily, CJ, etc rotate who plays a bit 'higher' to try to move up the ground and pot a long goal Birchall style a bit more often or set up the launches into attack. The opposition starting to put a lot of work into CJ, so we need to try to continue to make such a variety of avenues to attack from defence that it becomes almost pointless to do that like it was pointless putting a tag on one of Guerra/Suckling/Birchall given there was three down there. I agree with Topiary in the part he said Morris allowed Hardwick to play much higher and use his very under-rated skills, so perhaps that is something to experiment with again when an opportunity for selection comes up, and thought our mix looked very balanced when he played. Maybe 5 on the bench might mean Morris is more likely to get opportunities as well.