Coach Michael Voss

[BigLarry76]

I get there's passionate supporters, heck I am one of them.Its ok to wonder about Voss and other aspects of the club and have discussion.
But I have to wonder what the motivation is with some that come here with only ever bad things to say about the club they claim to support.

Well said, we’ve all endured heartache over the past two decades, but it becomes too easy to berate the club we all love, the trajectory at current is trending in the right direction, Voss can coach, and has the players backing, our big guy has just kicked a career high 9. I think there’s a lot to look forward to, for me, a finals berth would be a big pass, although I think we’re capable of anything beyond that, I'm daring to dream, but I won’t allow myself to get hurt again.

 

[bourbons]

Better opposition as in a better manned WC

Still confused - better manned = less injuries/better list surely? Didn't you just state it was "nothing to do with injuries"?

That margin seems to be growing. I think it would move your dial further along the same axis, like a loss. I don't have the same extremities, nor do I believe the club would have melted that hard after a couple of losses, as we have seen on this board

Fair enough, seems like you do now acknowledge such results generate at least some movement in prevailing thought/expectation/whatever. I agree.

Only 1 side has won 6 of 7 games, all others 5 or less. Should all those clubs panic? No

Agreed, so pointless thinking it's all doom and gloom 7 rounds in

As far as I've read no one has 'panicked' and said its all doom and gloom. Just noted that the start to the season has been relatively poor and that current form would likely not see us make finals.

Is that still pointless if the form persists throughout the year? Or do we then acknowledge that those who saw issues early were on the money?

They took a good step on the weekend, but lets be honest big wins over West Coast don't prove anything. Lets see if they can continue bringing that required effort over the next 6 weeks, I sure hope they can.

I had us at 13-15 wins, at no point this season has that opinion changed

Fair enough, so thats going about 10-6 from the remaining 16 games.

I probably had us winning about the same before the start of the season, but not quite as confident now based on 7 rounds of exposed form. We'll see I guess.

 

[bourbons]

Arr0w anyone with common sense or a balanced view is fair game to the 'entitled syndrome' pack - that has free license to mouth off with harsh words and ad hominem - without ever bothering to respond to the actual 'arguments' or 'facts' or observations that challenge their view.

It doesn't take long for a forum to descend into the pits of nuffery that can be observed on other 'boards' in BF and anyone that dares challenge the bleating is a bad person.

lolworthy and that is it.

I honestly haven't seen this?

People are discussing the team we all love, some have a more pessimistic or confident take than others, thats about it.

 

[DangerousD]

Williams was shunted from the Tigers before they won 3 flags

Simpson never had a senior mentor winning a flag, neither did Beveridge, neither did Brad Scott, Longmire

While it could help, its not a main component to the ultimate success

Forget senior mentor, what was the talent or depth in their coaches box?

A lot of my opinions like others will be built off the vibe but is our coaching group strong?

Collingwood have Leppa and Bolts, both have coached their own side, Leppa has a lot of experience winning premierships as a player and being involved in them as an assistant.

Is our coaching panel top shelf?

 

[jj1978]

Next month will highlight how well the coaching group can adapt. Some signs this week agothe Weagles with Voss wanting his finger on the pulse in the box. We’re injury reduced and spotlight will be on everyone within the club.

 

[BigLarry76]

Brisbane, Dogs, Pies and Swans, we’ve got a big month, I’m quietly confident we come out with at least 3 wins, no reason we can’t beat the Pies, Vossy won’t forget about how it all ended last year.

 

[Michael Jezz]

None of our previous 5 coaches have been able to turn it around, once we started losing. I am very interested to see if Voss can turn the ship around with wins over Brisbane and Western Bulldogs

 

[BigLarry76]

None of our previous 5 coaches have been able to turn it around, once we started losing. I am very interested to see if Voss can turn the ship around with wins over Brisbane and Western Bulldogs

With out deviating too far off topic, I still believe things could’ve been different if we stuck with Ratts, been patient like why Richmond were with Damien. But that’s not to say I’m not thrilled to have Voss on board, he was hard done by in similar fashion.

 

[Arr0w]

Have always said, the majority of coaches fall into a narrow bracket of underrated/overrated

It is and will always be about the list

 

[El Topo]

A gun playing list is necessary but not sufficient to win flags - only need to look at the GWS non-dynasty for that

 

[branedotorg]

A gun playing list is necessary but not sufficient to win flags - only need to look at the GWS non-dynasty for that

Teams of champions vs champion team etc

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Williams was shunted from the Tigers before they won 3 flags

Simpson never had a senior mentor winning a flag, neither did Beveridge, neither did Brad Scott, Longmire

While it could help, its not a main component to the ultimate success

If/when West Coast give Simpson the khyber, I'm hoping we're at the front of the queue to offer him an assistant role, similar to what the Tiggs did with Rutten. I really rate him.

I kind of suspect though another club would potentially offer him a senior position with the nature of the AFL coaching merry go round.

 

[HyphensBack]

You sack the coach it sets us back years. Players learn to accept that the coach will be sacked and go into standby, you get what Teague had towards the end, they were waiting for it to happen and stopped putting in out on the field. It messes with culture, it gives the players the sense they are above the coach, it gives them an out. You don't want that.

The coach needs time to be able to learn. Some have it straight away, some need to learn it. He might have got some things wrong but not as much as we are spruiking on here. IMO he has worked really hard on our defending and has got a lot right there.

The main thing, lets not overrate our team, he has not got the players. You can't ask us to play a particular way and play the same brand of footy some of the top sides are. We can't. We just don't have the players to play that way. We can't run like those teams.

I don't particularly think this is our fault. You could say we have recruited the wrong players. Yep at the time we weren't but we have recruited a lot of good footballers who don't bring to the team what we need. We also have injuries to a lot of players who do bring what we need.

I think the area Voss has let himself down is selection. He's brought in slow legs when he has had the opportunity to bring in fast legs.

As for game plan, we could probably go back to a go forward long, fast and hard into the congestion and see where that gets us. Sometimes worked, sometimes doesn't.

End of the day, if we attempt to go long and fast and go into the middle, we aren't quick on the outside so we don't have those guys running from behind to carry the ball and get to going forward. When we attempt this and turn it over, there just aren't enough quick legs to apply the pressure so we don't get burnt.

Not fit enough, not quick enough. Too many slow guys in the team, too many quick players on the sidelines.

We're all asking Voss to play a game style that would see us struggle with implementing it and get burnt when we turn it over. I think we could go a little more direct and we probably have to go with a run and gun and kick it long game to try get it to the back of the zone quicker, that's something I would be looking to do but it's not guaranteed to have great results.

What we need to do is start trying to develop some running defenders to release our current ones up the field. That means getting Boyd and Cincotta in and pushing them really hard to see if we can get them to a high level. Get Docherty on the ball. Pick Dow and really persist with him. Work on Walsh's game. He's a back of the contest accumulator who does not use his pace enough running through the contest and forward of the contest, IMO Walsh plays it a bit safe with his possessions and where he draws the ball. Minimise How many big slow heave units we have out on the field. Cripps, Kennedy, Hewett are good footballers but it's too much big, slow and immobile. Rotate them. Cripps forward more, Kennedy forward more, one to play as the sub. Work on having two of Dow, Docherty, Walsh, Cerra on the ball at all times. More onball for Fisher who is a part of that group.

Hit the draft and focus on speed. Fast backs who take it on and kick well, fast forwards who chase and tackle, fast onballers who can run distance and take the game on a bit and run both ways.

If he has a quick team and fails to move the ball, then we have coaching issues.

I also agree that Voss and the coaching staff haven’t had the players to move the ball faster and can see how this has probably tied one hand behind his back

The real test for Voss and the match committee is do they pick Boyd, Cottrell, Binns and stick with Cincotta, Holland and when required bring back in the likes of Cowan

I do believe they need to however change the attitude or directions to the half back and wingers to look to play on after a switch of play, 9/10 they stop and go back over the mark, leading to a reswitch and an eventual long kick to a contest
if they play on it probably gets into F50 (5/10) with a higher risk of turnover (2/10) or out of bounds after a contest (3/10), but gee that’s better then the odds we have now where they just try to avoid turnovers at all cost. (Yep I made those numbers up)

 

[BigLarry76]

Teams of champions vs champion team etc

I think we’re somewhere in between, with a little luck anything can happen. We’ve got the cattle that’s for sure, some young ones are still coming on. Voss brings that hard edge, something the young Lions couldn’t handle way back when.

 

[gbatman]

I also agree that Voss and the coaching staff haven’t had the players to move the ball faster and can see how this has probably tied one hand behind his back

The real test for Voss and the match committee is do they pick Boyd, Cottrell, Binns and stick with Cincotta, Holland and when required bring back in the likes of Cowan

I do believe they need to however change the attitude or directions to the half back and wingers to look to play on after a switch of play, 9/10 they stop and go back over the mark, leading to a reswitch and an eventual long kick to a contest
if they play on it probably gets into F50 (5/10) with a higher risk of turnover (2/10) or out of bounds after a contest (3/10), but gee that’s better then the odds we have now where they just try to avoid turnovers at all cost. (Yep I made those numbers up)

Leg speed, endurance, good kicking and skills and a desire to take risks and take the game on. If we add those players to the team, we will move the ball well. Can't ask guys who don't have this quality to do these things, they can't and when they make mistakes doing it, we get burnt even more due to being slow. Team had more balance this weekend, lets see if we keep selecting right and keep that balance. Not everyone in the team needs to be a big strong natural footballer, need the right mix and the quality.

 

[Aphrodite]

Brisbane, Dogs, Pies and Swans, we’ve got a big month, I’m quietly confident we come out with at least 3 wins, no reason we can’t beat the Pies, Vossy won’t forget about how it all ended last year.

With out deviating too far off topic, I still believe things could’ve been different if we stuck with Ratts, been patient like why Richmond were with Damien. But that’s not to say I’m not thrilled to have Voss on board, he was hard done by in similar fashion.

Club Support Collingwood!

 

[HyphensBack]

Which contending team would have any of Motlop/Durdin/Fisher/Honey or Silvagni as a starting 22 player? How about Ed Curnow or Hollands or Cowan?

How many developing or ordinary players can any top8 worthy team carry ?

In order to really match it with teh best sides you need all these blokes to be able to 'match it' with their direct opponents.

I stated earlier in the year that the best defence and response to the fast forward game is man on man and win the contest - that is what Port demonstrated yesterday against St Kilda. Port also have a stacked forward line compared to Carlton as far as defensive pressure and alternative ways to goal - Port were able to match it one on one in teh forward fifty at the contest- there were no easy exits.

Every 'game plan' looks great when it is working to advantage. What 'game plan' do you suggest that Voss can execute carrying all these developing on not quite up to it bodies every week.

Maybe the simple truth is that Carlton has limited attacking and defending capability and limited game plan and tactical elbow room - because there is a very large discrepancy of talent between the best players and the rest...maybe the team has to 'outperform' real capability to just be competitive against teams which have so many of our players 'covered'. Maybe too many of teh players are actually unable to execute the game plan drills in a game - because they are just not good enough - yet or may never be.

Too easy to blame a coach and point to Weitering/Saad/Docherty/Cripps/Charlie and Harry as being more than enough to cruise into finals - it doesn't work like that - stars need the role players to be able to play their roles. I think the team and list is a few players short of even that - atm.

Man to man defense - I am old school and do recognise the zone is required at times but ……

ffs, when the other team are turning it on and playing with a manic attitude, man to man defense is required, guarding space looks like playing probables and possibles in U18s

I think it does require the likes of Cincotta, Cottrell, C Durdin, Holland’s, Acres, Walsh, Docherty, Boyd to be available as you need fleet of foot players that also have a hard edge to be able to pull it off (also requires the right balance of inside mids)

 

[YamandU]

We played East Perth on Saturday night. Don’t let that win paper over the cracks from previous weeks. Next four weeks will tell us all we need to know.

 

[WalshYouLegend]

Club Support Collingwood!

View attachment 1675740

Yeah I’m totally confused with where this debutant’s allegiance lies. Carlton or Collingwood? Did he just slip up when registering and landed in the wrong suburb?

 

[BigLarry76]

Yeah I’m totally confused with where this debutant’s allegiance lies. Carlton or Collingwood? Did he just slip up when registering and landed in the wrong suburb?

I bleed Navy Blue, didn’t think much when creating.

 

[WalshYouLegend]

I bleed Navy Blue, didn’t think much when creating.

No worries. Welcome. You can edit it to Carlton in your profile. (Or if it doesn’t allow I’m sure a mod like Aph can fix it for you).

 

[SurreyBlue]

I bleed Navy Blue, didn’t think much when creating.

No offence, but Collingwood shouldn’t even be in your vocabulary or mindset when setting up your profile.

 

[JustaBattler]

No offence, but Collingwood shouldn’t even be in your vocabulary or mindset when setting up your profile.

When I get a grandchild teh first words they will hear from me repeated quietly in both ears three times will be **** Collingwood.

 

[katmanblue]

Still confused - better manned = less injuries/better list surely? Didn't you just state it was "nothing to do with injuries"?


Fair enough, seems like you do now acknowledge such results generate at least some movement in prevailing thought/expectation/whatever. I agree.


As far as I've read no one has 'panicked' and said its all doom and gloom. Just noted that the start to the season has been relatively poor and that current form would likely not see us make finals.

Is that still pointless if the form persists throughout the year? Or do we then acknowledge that those who saw issues early were on the money?

They took a good step on the weekend, but lets be honest big wins over West Coast don't prove anything. Lets see if they can continue bringing that required effort over the next 6 weeks, I sure hope they can.


Fair enough, so thats going about 10-6 from the remaining 16 games.

I probably had us winning about the same before the start of the season, but not quite as confident now based on 7 rounds of exposed form. We'll see I guess.

I'm hoping we come home with a wet sail.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Collingwood have Leppa and Bolts, both have coached their own side, Leppa has a lot of experience winning premierships as a player and being involved in them as an assistant.

Is our coaching panel top shelf?

I am not saying collingwood coaches aren't great but let's be honest - 2021 was an outlier of a year(racism saga - Eddie etc bucks had gone of the rails ) and the core of the side had already made a grand final some winning one losing one aswell as multiple final campaigns- the younger players had been groomed for one to three seasons bar discos and were fundamentally soundest back 6 in the league but had struggled through injury for two seasons...
we were coming from a long way back ..