List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[Stig O'Hara]

Interesting choice is Orazio

Indeed.

Thought someone was playing funny buggers on the intramanet.

Reckon his manager is doing cartwheels.

 

[GeorgieBoyBlue2]

Yeh, he kicks goals when he’s on the park. Problem is actually getting him on the park.

Best season kicked 39, had probably 2 good seasons in 10 years. How many did Owies kick LAST year? Motlop on the up, Cuningham back and getting a pre season are all in front of him. Fogarty is a pressure beast that can't kick over a jam tin or a goal to save his life but he would be in front of him too. Senior list spots are precious and we give one to him when we could elevate Boyd, Cottrell and Cincotta.....

 

[beowulf]

BTW - when did Port delist Orazio?

He was not offered a contract, so he delisted himself.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Interesting choice is Orazio

Had a solid block of games (yes SAFL) end of year seemed to be moving well - rumours of him leaving started in July so May of been why he didn't get upgraded to AFL,,
Hopefully stays healthy but looks like he will enter his first pre season injury free in a long time .. exactly the type of player we need as we leave far to many goals on the ground ..

 

[The Return of the Paf]

What type of Mickey Mouse club do we have to be to recruit Orazio?

 

[HarryFlashman]

Best season kicked 39, had probably 2 good seasons in 10 years. How many did Owies kick LAST year? Motlop on the up, Cuningham back and getting a pre season are all in front of him. Fogarty is a pressure beast that can't kick over a jam tin or a goal to save his life but he would be in front of him too. Senior list spots are precious and we give one to him when we could elevate Boyd, Cottrell and Cincotta.....

Boyd, Cotts, Cinc - all fringe & fighting for a spot. We have cover for them all - small goal kicking forward who is quick, gets to the right spot and penetrating by foot is a very obvious need & something we lack.

I really rate Cotts, but it’s going to be tough for him to hold a spot without him taking another step up.

Boyd - highly regarded in here but has not really done anything to date to justify it. Has shown glimpses but hasn’t even strung together a block of back to back high quality games.

Cinc is very similar - has produced solid back to back games but nothing really that impressive.
Cinc & Boyd are very very easy outs of the 22 when u have Williams coming back - straight out better footballer than both.
Binns & Cowan are kids who are likely to get games & we aren’t even close to seeing what they could/will be.

I don’t see the issue with a list spot going to an obvious (albeit small) improvement in an area of need when we have cover, competition & kids to come thru in other parts of the ground.

That said I think Cotts is stiff not to have a cemented list spot.

 

[Pablito]

What type of Mickey Mouse club do we have to be to recruit Orazio?

What type of Mickey Mouse supporter doesn't understand the recruitment of Orazio?

 

[agro]

What type of Mickey Mouse club do we have to be to recruit Orazio?

 

[The Return of the Paf]

What type of Mickey Mouse supporter doesn't understand the recruitment of Orazio?

...Whoosh.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Boyd, Cotts, Cinc - all fringe & fighting for a spot. We have cover for them all - small goal kicking forward who is quick, gets to the right spot and penetrating by foot is a very obvious need & something we lack.

I really rate Cotts, but it’s going to be tough for him to hold a spot without him taking another step up.

Boyd - highly regarded in here but has not really done anything to date to justify it. Has shown glimpses but hasn’t even strung together a block of back to back high quality games.

Cinc is very similar - has produced solid back to back games but nothing really that impressive.
Cinc & Boyd are very very easy outs of the 22 when u have Williams coming back - straight out better footballer than both.
Binns & Cowan are kids who are likely to get games & we aren’t even close to seeing what they could/will be.

I don’t see the issue with a list spot going to an obvious (albeit small) improvement in an area of need when we have cover, competition & kids to come thru in other parts of the ground.

That said I think Cotts is stiff not to have a cemented list spot.

I feel Boyd gets a bit overated on here. Quick and a great kick but doesn't win much of the ball. Decent defensively but small so limited on the types he can play on. Not that young.

Don't get me wrong. I like him as a player. I just think if he's in the team it's as a rebounder and he struggles to find the ball. We have better options in that role.

Definately a chance for round 1 but far from locked in the 22 as a lot would have him. Reminds me of how Stocker used to be in everyone's preaseason 22.

I'm hoping Cowan comes on and gets that 7th role in our defence as he's alot more flexible.

 

[KohPhi]

What type of Mickey Mouse club do we have to be to recruit Orazio?

 

[Kings of Lygon]

An open door policy isn't an indication of the level of strength and or success.

I don't know what you mean here, but I think it's pretty clear we are too open with the media or there is a leak and it's hurt us at the trade table IMO. Have you noticed they always seem to be able to confidently report "Carlton are seeking a X round pick for Y player" or "will offer X pick", especially since we've had Austin steering the ship?

Paying overs or top tier payments for a talented FA isn't unusual, it's actually standard practice for a number of reasons, one of which is to stop the original club matching the bid

Dodoro just paid what for an injury prone CHB?

Williams has time to improve and repay the faith we showed in targeting him

Yeah I get that, but i'm really only interested in what WE do as a club. Williams (so far) has been a massive failure, on huge money wouldn't you agree? We have a lot of money tied up in him, for a position that we have quite a lot of depth in. That is on Austin...

I too was a little concerned with what we gave up at the time, but again there were factors which made it difficult to acquire Saad if trading back our early 1st for two late 1sts

Dodoro, other clubs, have an understanding of other clubs salary cap. No way we could have walked him to the PSD like a Jack Martin

What would you say the currency was for a potential/actual AA like Sinclair, Laird, Whitfield

I would have split 8 into a pick in the mid teens and a 2nd rounder of some description, which would have easily been able to be achieved; clubs always want to get inside the top 10.

An uncontracted Saad, who had packed his locker if my memory serves me correct, in no way was worth a top 10 pick. He's a great player, but we overpaid. History shows us we overpaid. That is on Austin...

Hewett took industry unders, reportedly less than 500K a year, fortunately or good management by us, Swan were struggling with cap space considering their young stars wanted to be retained

I've got no issue with the Hewett acquisition, was happy with it at the time and I think he's got some things to offer us as a player.

While the Dockers undervalued Acres, and probably so too did other clubs, players don't fall into your lap. You pitch a vision, role and a package. Great list management by Austin and the club

He did though. Freo offered crap money and low years, he would have stayed if they offered what was fair as he is on record saying, rather than us prying him out as part of some plan.

"Fremantle’s low-ball offer forced Blake Acres to head to Carlton despite having a career-best season at the Dockers..."

"Contract talks weren’t going the way I would’ve liked at Freo so I wanted to see what was out there and if there were any other potential good fits for me,”

I give Austin a tick for getting it done, but he absolutely fell into our lap.

Fisher's value was always a mid to late 2nd rounder.

Austin was offered a pick in the 40s and quickly made it clear it wouldn't get the deal done.

The eventual trade was perfect for what we wanted for our draft position

Maybe. I just feel that our position was too well known and we had nowhere to go in negotiations, especially for a player who has 2 years remaining on his contract. North had a swag of priority selections they basically needed to trade. We should have done more to wrangle one of them, instead we actually moved back in the draft, to move Fisher on.

I thought it was poor business and was really surprised posters here were celebrating it. I wouldn't have minded keeping Fisher...

For me, it seems you have more of an issue with Austin's demeanour rather than him building a list to give us the best chance at success

I have an issue with some of his decisions and the outcomes for our footy club, all of which I've spoken about replying here and previously. His ability to "build" a list remains to be seen completely.

The demeanour stuff is something that struck me right away with him and my view hasn't changed. Some of the deals he has done strike me as soft negotiating, which for me lines it up with the view of him I have as a person as someone that perhaps is more agreeable than ruthless. I definitelty don't want a Dodoro, but I don't want a list boss that's a push over either...

I'm fine with people disagreeing with that assessment, but it's what I think.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

What type of Mickey Mouse club do we have to be to recruit Orazio?

 

[bigblueboy]

I feel Boyd gets a bit overated on here. Quick and a great kick but doesn't win much of the ball. Decent defensively but small so limited on the types he can play on. Not that young.

Don't get me wrong. I like him as a player. I just think if he's in the team it's as a rebounder and he struggles to find the ball. We have better options in that role.

Definately a chance for round 1 but far from locked in the 22 as a lot would have him. Reminds me of how Stocker used to be in everyone's preaseason 22.

I'm hoping Cowan comes on and gets that 7th role in our defence as he's alot more flexible.

I think Boyd is going to be a very good player. Is quick, reads the play well and has good foot skills.
If he can play a lockdown small back role, it frees Saad and Williams to be more attacking off half back. He doesn’t need a high possession count.
Think he’s a crucial piece to our development.

 

[manang magoos]

Gold right there Bamboo

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Best season kicked 39, had probably 2 good seasons in 10 years. How many did Owies kick LAST year? Motlop on the up, Cuningham back and getting a pre season are all in front of him. Fogarty is a pressure beast that can't kick over a jam tin or a goal to save his life but he would be in front of him too. Senior list spots are precious and we give one to him when we could elevate Boyd, Cottrell and Cincotta.....

OF averages 1.9 in his best season, MO averaged 1.5 this season - and loads of tackles, pressure acts.

 

[Penetrator]

I don't know what you mean here, but I think it's pretty clear we are too open with the media or there is a leak and it's hurt us at the trade table IMO. Have you noticed they always seem to be able to confidently report "Carlton are seeking a X round pick for Y player" or "will offer X pick", especially since we've had Austin steering the ship?



Yeah I get that, but i'm really only interested in what WE do as a club. Williams (so far) has been a massive failure, on huge money wouldn't you agree? We have a lot of money tied up in him, for a position that we have quite a lot of depth in. That is on Austin...



I would have split 8 into a pick in the mid teens and a 2nd rounder of some description, which would have easily been able to be achieved; clubs always want to get inside the top 10.

An uncontracted Saad, who had packed his locker if my memory serves me correct, in no way was worth a top 10 pick. He's a great player, but we overpaid. History shows us we overpaid. That is on Austin...



I've got no issue with the Hewett acquisition, was happy with it at the time and I think he's got some things to offer us as a player.



He did though. Freo offered crap money and low years, he would have stayed if they offered what was fair as he is on record saying, rather than us prying him out as part of some plan.

"Fremantle’s low-ball offer forced Blake Acres to head to Carlton despite having a career-best season at the Dockers..."

"Contract talks weren’t going the way I would’ve liked at Freo so I wanted to see what was out there and if there were any other potential good fits for me,”

I give Austin a tick for getting it done, but he absolutely fell into our lap.



Maybe. I just feel that our position was too well known and we had nowhere to go in negotiations, especially for a player who has 2 years remaining on his contract. North had a swag of priority selections they basically needed to trade. We should have done more to wrangle one of them, instead we actually moved back in the draft, to move Fisher on.

I thought it was poor business and was really surprised posters here were celebrating it. I wouldn't have minded keeping Fisher...



I have an issue with some of his decisions and the outcomes for our footy club, all of which I've spoken about replying here and previously. His ability to "build" a list remains to be seen completely.

The demeanour stuff is something that struck me right away with him and my view hasn't changed. Some of the deals he has done strike me as soft negotiating, which for me lines it up with the view of him I have as a person as someone that perhaps is more agreeable than ruthless. I definitelty don't want a Dodoro, but I don't want a list boss that's a push over either...

I'm fine with people disagreeing with that assessment, but it's what I think.

So reading through everything your dislike for Austin boils down to 2 trades he did which was for Saad and Williams.

Ok so when a free agent at the calibre of Zac Williams becomes available you have to pay an inflated amount to stop it been matched and to get him to choose your club. This didn’t cost any draft picks and I think majority of supporters were very happy with his accusation at the time. Who would you have gone for as a free agent that year ?

Adam Saad I am not sure you have detailed the exact trade that happened you just keep saying it was for a top 10 pick.

The Blues have sent picks No.8 and 87 to the Bombers, who will return picks No.48 and 78 to the Blues.

With pick 48 we also picked Jack Carroll who is still on the list.

Adam Saad is worth pick 8 by himself and that has been proven by his performance including all Australian so great trade imo. Who would you have swapped the pick with and then drafted that year ?

Also why did Blake Acres just fall into our lap and not any of the other 17 teams ?

 

[GeorgieBoyBlue2]

Boyd, Cotts, Cinc - all fringe & fighting for a spot. We have cover for them all - small goal kicking forward who is quick, gets to the right spot and penetrating by foot is a very obvious need & something we lack.

I really rate Cotts, but it’s going to be tough for him to hold a spot without him taking another step up.

Boyd - highly regarded in here but has not really done anything to date to justify it. Has shown glimpses but hasn’t even strung together a block of back to back high quality games.

Cinc is very similar - has produced solid back to back games but nothing really that impressive.
Cinc & Boyd are very very easy outs of the 22 when u have Williams coming back - straight out better footballer than both.
Binns & Cowan are kids who are likely to get games & we aren’t even close to seeing what they could/will be.

I don’t see the issue with a list spot going to an obvious (albeit small) improvement in an area of need when we have cover, competition & kids to come thru in other parts of the ground.

That said I think Cotts is stiff not to have a cemented list spot.

Cotts deserves a spot and was very good in the finals.
Boyd was good in preliminary final and was finding consistent form before 3 week sling tackle suspension.
Cincotta I can't make a case for best 22.
Williams still needs time after ACL injury, did it late Feb or early March so I wouldn't expect much from him til after the bye round.
Durdin was our best small forward until injury and should keep Orazio out of the team also.
Orazio- injury prone, is physically thinish/weak and cherry on top player.
Austin has done a good job though so his judgement is sound.... Could this be the second coming of Skinny Lappin???
Can only dream...

 

[Beyond Blue]

An all important list spot for 2yrs is collateral = overs.

$850K is not too wildly extravagant under the new CBA.

It is for Ben McKay

 

[Beyond Blue]

Surely Raz gets the now vacant No.34 guernsey in honour of fellow Italian small forward of the past Ronny De Iulio…

 

[Coona Blues]

I feel Boyd gets a bit overated on here. Quick and a great kick but doesn't win much of the ball. Decent defensively but small so limited on the types he can play on. Not that young.

Don't get me wrong. I like him as a player. I just think if he's in the team it's as a rebounder and he struggles to find the ball. We have better options in that role.

Definately a chance for round 1 but far from locked in the 22 as a lot would have him. Reminds me of how Stocker used to be in everyone's preaseason 22.

I'm hoping Cowan comes on and gets that 7th role in our defence as he's alot more flexible.

Absolutely.

Posters rave on Boyd, but readily accept and laud a rumour that Cincotta is being upgraded to the main list.

Logically, if we were just promoting one rookie, Cincotta over Boyd and Cottrell is a red flag for the other two. Cinc has one year on the rookie list and is entitled to another two without upgrade. After two and a half years as a rookie with a maximum of one more, thanks to a rule change, surely if Boyd was as highly rated as some want us to believe, he would be the one upgraded.

I am not knocking Boyd as such, he is a decent option and AFL quality, I do rate Cincotta higher, and if we are upgrading him, the club certainly do. Cincotta was cooked/playing sore and struggling to get up at the business end of the season, but was named week after week. The message is clear.

I believe Cottrell, Cincotta and O’Keeffe are almost certain to be upgraded at some stage. I had thought similar about Boyd, but am now not quite so sure on the assumption that the Cinc rumour is true.

Sam Durdin is good cheap cover, so may be a candidate down the track along with the Irish lads. While we retain the contracted Lewis Young, “Nigel” remains in some jeopardy, though.(I still favour drafting a young KPD to set up the future)

 

[Coona Blues]

Surely Raz gets the now vacant No.34 guernsey in honour of fellow Italian small forward of the past Ronny De Iulio…

Has worn #13 at both previous clubs, so clearly has a liking for it.

I would not be surprised if Blake Acres moves up to either vacant single digit number #2 or #4 having worn 40, 4, 9 and now 13, so clearly not being fussed with his number.

 

[Kings of Lygon]

So reading through everything your dislike for Austin boils down to 2 trades he did which was for Saad and Williams.

It sounds like you didn't read through it thoroughly enough if your take is that is boils down to 2 things.

Ok so when a free agent at the calibre of Zac Williams becomes available you have to pay an inflated amount to stop it been matched and to get him to choose your club. This didn’t cost any draft picks and I think majority of supporters were very happy with his accusation at the time. Who would you have gone for as a free agent that year ?

I don't see why we went after Williams at all for that money. I think it was a fundamental misreading of the list and where we were at, as well as what Zac was capable of. We thought he was going to be a gun mid at our footy club, based on one or two (albeit excellent) games at GWS when he played that role.

That didn't turn out to be the case did it? He was awful in that role for us and he's quite honestly been pretty average in general.

Adam Saad I am not sure you have detailed the exact trade that happened you just keep saying it was for a top 10 pick.

The Blues have sent picks No.8 and 87 to the Bombers, who will return picks No.48 and 78 to the Blues.

With pick 48 we also picked Jack Carroll who is still on the list.

Adam Saad is worth pick 8 by himself and that has been proven by his performance including all Australian so great trade imo. Who would you have swapped the pick with and then drafted that year ?

First of all, you are incorrect. Jack Carroll was taken at pick 41, which is a pick that we got via Geelong in a seperate deal. We bundled 48 in a deal with Sydney.

Secondly I wholeheartedly disagree that he was worth pick 8. Can you find me any HBF in history that was traded for such a high price, whilst being out of contract? What he's done since doesn't change that we overpaid at the time. Who knows who else we could have had on the list if we split 8, or what other future deals we could have gotten done.

We will never know, because Austin paid the highest price ever for a comparable player and folded to Dodoro.

I don't know what other teams needs or wants were precisely in that time because it was now 4 trade periods ago, but on paper GWS or Collingwood would appeal as trading buddies.

GWS have a long history of trading into early picks as well as a good trading relationship with us. They had 15 and 18 that year plus all their future selections.

Collingwood had 17, 19 and 30.

Freo had 14 and 27.

I think a better deal could have been struck with Essendon, even if it did include 8.

Seems like options applenty to me and I remember feeling exactly the same way at the time.

Also why did Blake Acres just fall into our lap and not any of the other 17 teams ?

You'd have to ask Blake why he chose us. I assume part of his reasoning was our massive weakness at his best position.

I gave Austin a tick for that, but I won't pretend it was some mastermind, trade coup either.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

What type of Mickey Mouse club do we have to be to recruit Orazio?

1 who finished 3rd and imo beat the pies if we made the GF

 

[Pablito]

I feel Boyd gets a bit overated on here. Quick and a great kick but doesn't win much of the ball. Decent defensively but small so limited on the types he can play on. Not that young.

Don't get me wrong. I like him as a player. I just think if he's in the team it's as a rebounder and he struggles to find the ball. We have better options in that role.

Definately a chance for round 1 but far from locked in the 22 as a lot would have him. Reminds me of how Stocker used to be in everyone's preaseason 22.

I'm hoping Cowan comes on and gets that 7th role in our defence as he's alot more flexible.

Before the prelim I would of 100% agreed with you. After it though I can't imagine us leaving such a weapon out of the team.

17 touches and gained 460 metres! Along with only 1 turnover he was in our best 3-4 players.

He blew me away, he rose to the occasion and it's blokes like that you want in your team. Smooth movers who don't balk under pressure.