State of umpiring

[amaz199]

This game is ****ed.

 

[muttley45]

Dillon and Kane must be rapt for possible finals scenario, Collingwood and * looking extremely unlikely starters, 1st week could be an all interstate affair, the xmas bonus's might take a little hit

 

[Uncle_Leo]

To support your team

Thats why I was there.

But I can see why people didn't go.

Its ok to think both isn't it?

 

[koshari]

Sure is.

Front and centre is Ray.

I will say one thing about ray, throwing the ball up was far fairer, i recall about 3 or 4 center bounces he took and threw them up. All good and fair for both ruckmen, the next bounce from a different ump favoured tdk where carlton goaled. Shoulda been recalled. The bounce should be discarded to history

 

[Waynesworld]

Umpire 42 can piss back off to the AFLW where he came from.

He paid all of those frees and the 50 in the last part of the 4th quarter to kill the game.

And he was just about involved in every other questionable decision.

Whistle happy twat

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

I will say one thing about ray, throwing the ball up was far fairer, i recall about 3 or 4 center bounces he took and threw them up. All good and fair for both ruckmen, the next bounce from a different ump favoured tdk where carlton goaled. Shoulda been recalled. The bounce should be discarded to history

Let them do the first bounce of each qtr for the sake of the spectacle. Or maybe just the first one of the game.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Umpires make mistakes. They're human. I was a field umpire for 3 years at local level in the 2015, 16 and 17 seasons. I gave it away not because I hated it. Internal politics at the umpiring group I was at started affecting training and my teenage son was being bullied as well and management did nothing. Yet I had a good amount of experience of what it was like.

In terms of being human and making mistakes, sometimes you just get it wrong and don't know why. It's usually experience and coaching that prevents that. My very first game as a field umpire was a reserves game. I never got to do a seniors game - just U18s and reserves - that politics thing I mentioned got in the way. In the 2nd quarter of my first game I saw a blatantly obvious scoop and for some reason I'll never know, didn't pay the throw. It was a deer in the headlights moment. An opposition player nearby said "how could you miss that??" and he was right. I have absolutely no idea why I didn't blow the whistle.

Two years later, a few more mistakes, behind me, and I was paying those and the rest, including what I thought was a very good 50m penalty and control of a volatile situation, which avoided a melee between two teams who hated each other. I was proud of myself for that. I got good feedback from one of my coaches who happened to be there about something I still didn't get right, in that I moved straight into marking out the 50 and didn't stay with the incident. It was all good, but I needed that feedback.

Is this what is happening in the AFL? Are they giving these guys feedback? Are they paying them enough as well? Higher pay might create better umpires.

Umpires make mistakes, but they should be minimal at the highest level.

Let's look at some of the perceived "mistakes", and see that they are down to rule ambiguity rather than human error and thus can be fixed.

The Bailey Scott non-50 against Collingwood cost us the game.

The non HTB from that Paul Curtis tackle in our F50, followed by a very harsh 50m penalty mere seconds later cost us any chance we had of beating Carlton.

Umpires make mistakes. But they should NOT be making game changing mistakes at AFL level. They are perceived to be making mistakes because the rules are ambiguous.

There needs to be better coaching, yes, but primarily there needs to be clear, unambiguous rule changes that give umpires a better change of getting things right much more often than they are now.

Four umpires have made things WORSE. I believe TWO umpires would be better. When I was umpiring, I much preferred that. Then it is YOUR game when it's in your half, and the other umpire's when it goes past centre. In this situation, there is sometimes a problem when an umpire can't see if a player handballed or not. Yet there is someone who can. The boundary umpire. Boundaries are not dummies. They need to be empowered to make these decisions. Just for ones where the field umpire is blindsided. However, we have had three umpires for a long time, and I will concede ground on that.

Four umpires, however, has been a bad move by the AFL.

When you have four umpires, there are jurisdiction and control issues. You have less experienced umpires being thrown to the wolves. And then we get what we have now: the worst umpiring has been in many years.

We need to simplify things, and fix some obvious problems, chiefly being:

1. Throwing instead of handballing. This happens dozens of times in a game. There needs to be clarification on what a handball is: it needs to be a sweeping motion by the fist across the open hand holding the ball. It can't be a handball when there are two hands above the head and it's a flicking motion where the fist does NOT sweep through the ball. It has to be a CLEAR sweeping motion, or it's a throw. I realise this is still a bit grey, but sure it's better than the basketball passes we're seeing now on a regular basis.

2. Holding the ball needs to be fixed. It ruins the game. A player who takes a single step with the ball, or tries to fend off, or dives on it, or drags it in, should be pinged for HTB. It's not happening consistently. Curnow in the last quarter was a clear example. Another example was whoever that Carlton player was (O Hollands?) in the last quarter who took 3 steps and failed to kick it when tackled by Curtis. And to be fair, Cunnington in the final against Richmond in 2015 should have been paid. Those are examples. Getting a toe to the ball or "maybe" a handball, should also be pinged. If it is not an effective kick (let's say it has to travel 15m) or the handball doesn't go 5m or to a teammate or even an opposition player, then it should not be a legal disposal and the decision should be HTB. Banging it on the boot with one hand while the other is being held and dribbling a kick away should not be allowed and it should be HTB.

3. Deliberate out of bounds needs to be scrapped. If a player kicks, handballs or punches the ball and it goes out of play (unless it is a spoil from a marking contest) then it should be a free kick to the other team. Not necessarily the "lasso" free kick we see in AFLW, but similar. Smothers, or rebounds, or trying to pick up the ball should not be paid deliberate. Walking the ball out or not making an attempt to keep it in (i.e. allowing the ball to cross the line, escorting it over) should be insufficent intent). This is another grey area that needs rework.

4. 50m penalties should never be given if players can't hear, or if there is doubt. That means the Bailey Scott one against Collingwood is NOT 50, but neither is the one paid against LDU yesterday in the Carlton game. A 50m penalty should ONLY be paid if the player kicks the ball away in anger or frustration or takes too long to give it back when the free kick is obvious. If they give it to the wrong opposition player, or an umpire, it should NOT be 50. That negates the "too long" problem. They hand it to the umpire, or the nearest opposition player as soon as possible, or it's 50m. The players should not have to mindread the umpire if they did not hear who the free kick is being paid to. Putting the ball on the ground near where the free kick was paid should also NOT be 50m. That is a dumb interpretation that has never been corrected.

These four changes will remove the ambiguity in umpiring and will remove some of the subjective calls we see. In this case, the two non-free kicks to us against Calrlton would have been paid to us, because the umpire(s) are now not guessing, and things are clear in their minds and in the minds of the fans. The 50m would also have not been paid against LDU.

And, for god's sake, get rid of the 4th umpire. Three I can live with, but four is too many.

One more thing... whatever you do to clarify what constitutes deliberate or insufficient intent with out of bounds should also apply in exactly the same way to rushed behinds. No exceptions.

 

[Jimmy's Hot Dogs]

I’m not against umpires throwing the ball up and if it can keep good decision makers umpiring, then go for it… but Ray needs to vary his throwing height a little to put some unpredictability into the centre circle.

 

[Rollmop]

To support your team

That’s exactly it. Worst timeslot in footy but it is what it is. Despite the crap umpiring, irritating Carlton fans, our skill issues & fumbles - and the fact that we lost - it was still a cracking game to be at last night. Maybe I’m not selling it too well but life’s short, go to the game

 

[DuckYeah]

Umpires make mistakes. They're human. I was a field umpire for 3 years at local level in the 2015, 16 and 17 seasons. I gave it away not because I hated it. Internal politics at the umpiring group I was at started affecting training and my teenage son was being bullied as well and management did nothing. Yet I had a good amount of experience of what it was like.

In terms of being human and making mistakes, sometimes you just get it wrong and don't know why. It's usually experience and coaching that prevents that. My very first game as a field umpire was a reserves game. I never got to do a seniors game - just U18s and reserves - that politics thing I mentioned got in the way. In the 2nd quarter of my first game I saw a blatantly obvious scoop and for some reason I'll never know, didn't pay the throw. It was a deer in the headlights moment. An opposition player nearby said "how could you miss that??" and he was right. I have absolutely no idea why I didn't blow the whistle.

Two years later, a few more mistakes, behind me, and I was paying those and the rest, including what I thought was a very good 50m penalty and control of a volatile situation, which avoided a melee between two teams who hated each other. I was proud of myself for that. I got good feedback from one of my coaches who happened to be there about something I still didn't get right, in that I moved straight into marking out the 50 and didn't stay with the incident. It was all good, but I needed that feedback.

Is this what is happening in the AFL? Are they giving these guys feedback? Are they paying them enough as well? Higher pay might create better umpires.

Umpires make mistakes, but they should be minimal at the highest level.

Let's look at some of the perceived "mistakes", and see that they are down to rule ambiguity rather than human error and thus can be fixed.

The Bailey Scott non-50 against Collingwood cost us the game.

The non HTB from that Paul Curtis tackle in our F50, followed by a very harsh 50m penalty mere seconds later cost us any chance we had of beating Carlton.

Umpires make mistakes. But they should NOT be making game changing mistakes at AFL level. They are perceived to be making mistakes because the rules are ambiguous.

There needs to be better coaching, yes, but primarily there needs to be clear, unambiguous rule changes that give umpires a better change of getting things right much more often than they are now.

Four umpires have made things WORSE. I believe TWO umpires would be better. When I was umpiring, I much preferred that. Then it is YOUR game when it's in your half, and the other umpire's when it goes past centre. In this situation, there is sometimes a problem when an umpire can't see if a player handballed or not. Yet there is someone who can. The boundary umpire. Boundaries are not dummies. They need to be empowered to make these decisions. Just for ones where the field umpire is blindsided. However, we have had three umpires for a long time, and I will concede ground on that.

Four umpires, however, has been a bad move by the AFL.

When you have four umpires, there are jurisdiction and control issues. You have less experienced umpires being thrown to the wolves. And then we get what we have now: the worst umpiring has been in many years.

We need to simplify things, and fix some obvious problems, chiefly being:

1. Throwing instead of handballing. This happens dozens of times in a game. There needs to be clarification on what a handball is: it needs to be a sweeping motion by the fist across the open hand holding the ball. It can't be a handball when there are two hands above the head and it's a flicking motion where the fist does NOT sweep through the ball. It has to be a CLEAR sweeping motion, or it's a throw. I realise this is still a bit grey, but sure it's better than the basketball passes we're seeing now on a regular basis.

2. Holding the ball needs to be fixed. It ruins the game. A player who takes a single step with the ball, or tries to fend off, or dives on it, or drags it in, should be pinged for HTB. It's not happening consistently. Curnow in the last quarter was a clear example. Another example was whoever that Carlton player was (O Hollands?) in the last quarter who took 3 steps and failed to kick it when tackled by Curtis. And to be fair, Cunnington in the final against Richmond in 2015 should have been paid. Those are examples. Getting a toe to the ball or "maybe" a handball, should also be pinged. If it is not an effective kick (let's say it has to travel 15m) or the handball doesn't go 5m or to a teammate or even an opposition player, then it should not be a legal disposal and the decision should be HTB. Banging it on the boot with one hand while the other is being held and dribbling a kick away should not be allowed and it should be HTB.

3. Deliberate out of bounds needs to be scrapped. If a player kicks, handballs or punches the ball and it goes out of play (unless it is a spoil from a marking contest) then it should be a free kick to the other team. Not necessarily the "lasso" free kick we see in AFLW, but similar. Smothers, or rebounds, or trying to pick up the ball should not be paid deliberate. Walking the ball out or not making an attempt to keep it in (i.e. allowing the ball to cross the line, escorting it over) should be insufficent intent). This is another grey area that needs rework.

4. 50m penalties should never be given if players can't hear, or if there is doubt. That means the Bailey Scott one against Collingwood is NOT 50, but neither is the one paid against LDU yesterday in the Carlton game. A 50m penalty should ONLY be paid if the player kicks the ball away in anger or frustration or takes too long to give it back when the free kick is obvious. If they give it to the wrong opposition player, or an umpire, it should NOT be 50. That negates the "too long" problem. They hand it to the umpire, or the nearest opposition player as soon as possible, or it's 50m. The players should not have to mindread the umpire if they did not hear who the free kick is being paid to. Putting the ball on the ground near where the free kick was paid should also NOT be 50m. That is a dumb interpretation that has never been corrected.

These four changes will remove the ambiguity in umpiring and will remove some of the subjective calls we see. In this case, the two non-free kicks to us against Calrlton would have been paid to us, because the umpire(s) are now not guessing, and things are clear in their minds and in the minds of the fans. The 50m would also have not been paid against LDU.

And, for god's sake, get rid of the 4th umpire. Three I can live with, but four is too many.

you were obviously a better umpire with no experience than the ones at the highest level. Umpires at the highest level are super fit, some of the best umpires out there can’t cut the fitness tests the umpires need to do. So we are left with incredibly fit brainless and bias campaigners.

I dont mind Jimmy and Eds podcast. Recently they have been discussing the 4th umpire, Eddie suggests they’re being used in the wrong positions, which is probably correct.

The other discussion point is the game probably needs to be wound back to being a simple game with simple rules. The rules contain too many sub clauses which impacts an “interpretation” - How many of our forwards were pushed in the back on Sunday? There was easily 3 or 4 blatant free kicks missed because of interpretation. All that needs is “was the player pushed in the back?” - Free kick. Its simple.

We need clubs, boards and coaches to come out and tell em to get stuffed. There are enough members owned clubs to apply pressure on the AFL to make these changes. Change it, or we form a world series type cricket comp and you can be left with 2 sydney teams, a gold coast, Poorta delaide, those other shit campaigners and Tasmania. Time to stand up and fight back.

 

[DuckYeah]

Let them do the first bounce of each qtr for the sake of the spectacle. Or maybe just the first one of the game.

I’m not against umpires throwing the ball up and if it can keep good decision makers umpiring, then go for it… but Ray needs to vary his throwing height a little to put some unpredictability into the centre circle.

There is too much critical game time lost in messed up centre bounces. Can be up to 5-10 seconds lost in a quarter due to incompetence

 

[Roo202]

you were obviously a better umpire with no experience than the ones at the highest level. Umpires at the highest level are super fit, some of the best umpires out there can’t cut the fitness tests the umpires need to do. So we are left with incredibly fit brainless and bias campaigners.

I dont mind Jimmy and Eds podcast. Recently they have been discussing the 4th umpire, Eddie suggests they’re being used in the wrong positions, which is probably correct.

The other discussion point is the game probably needs to be wound back to being a simple game with simple rules. The rules contain too many sub clauses which impacts an “interpretation” - How many of our forwards were pushed in the back on Sunday? There was easily 3 or 4 blatant free kicks missed because of interpretation. All that needs is “was the player pushed in the back?” - Free kick. Its simple.

We need clubs, boards and coaches to come out and tell em to get stuffed. There are enough members owned clubs to apply pressure on the AFL to make these changes. Change it, or we form a world series type cricket comp and you can be left with 2 sydney teams, a gold coast, Poorta delaide, those other shit campaigners and Tasmania. Time to stand up and fight back.

Spot on, more rules with "interpretation" clauses coupled with more umpires with different interpretations of those interpretations, is always going to end one way, inconsistency.

To me that is everything that is wrong with it, it is one thing to not like a particular rule, but if you understand it and it is always ruled the same way, you can learn to accept it. It is the inconsistency which so many of these vague "interpretation" rules are judged, that leads to frustration.

The AFL is so condescending, ticking off a particular decision as "correct" as judged in that isolated incident by a particular interpretation of the rules. But everyone can point to several similar and often more blatant examples where the same interpretation hasn't been applied.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

There is too much critical game time lost in messed up centre bounces. Can be up to 5-10 seconds lost in a quarter due to incompetence

IMO if a bounce has to be called back, that umpire should have to throw it up for the rest of the quarter(half?). And if it happens twice (if it's a quarter ban), they have to do it for the rest of the game.

Keep the skill. But if you can't execute it regularly, you don't get 30 more chances which potentially are detrimental to a team.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[Cyber_punk]

YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
View attachment 2056858

Good riddance.

Always tried to make it about himself.

Get f$%^d Ray

 

[ChopChopDigDig]

YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
View attachment 2056858

As much as it’s fun to hate on razor, that’s just one more rookie ump that will be assigned to all north games from now on

 

[DarkPhoenix]

As much as it’s fun to hate on razor, that’s just one more rookie ump that will be assigned to all north games from now on

True, But is their ineptness going to be worse than Razor's ineptness + his love for big clubs?

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

True, But is their ineptness going to be worse than Razor's ineptness + his love for big clubs?

Whoever #42 is completely outdid Ray for ineptitude.

 

[Rollmop]

YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
View attachment 2056858

 

[giantroo]

 

[Hojuman]

Whoever #42 is completely outdid Ray for ineptitude.

Ray jnr. Father / Son.

 

[tazaa]

YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
View attachment 2056858

Piss off campaigner
Patronising w***er

 

[Horace]

Whoever #42 is completely outdid Ray for ineptitude.

Here's our man Number 42, Nicholas McGinness.

Can blow a whistle. Not necessarily adjudicating correctly though.

Nicholas McGinness - AFLUA

AFLUA Heritage Number: 454 Shirt Number: 42 AFLW Matches at the end of 2022: 42 AFL Matches at the end of 2022: 7 Commenced umpiring career with: Canberra AFL Juniors (2009) 1st AFLW Match: 2017, RD 7, GWS Giants v Western Bulldogs (Manuka Oval) 1st AFL Match: 2022, RD 8, Brisbane v West Coast...

aflua.com.au

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Still shit.

 

[DuckYeah]

Still shit.

They can get ****ed. They will want to up their security

 

[Horizons_00]

Its Getting worse