Opinion Non-Crows AFL 11

[spenze]

I know I missed the Tippett fiasco discussion (guess will have to wait another 6 months)

But I do want to chime in re the bullshit over the top penalties crows always cop.

My favourite being Tex copping $50,000 fine for not wearing a mask on a plane, then the Port players caught at swimming event but used the excuse they were eating so no fine. Like seriously?

There’s clubs that fight even when they’re in the wrong, and then there’s clubs like ours that just roll over and take whatever shit the AFL throws our way. And I think we can say that good will of being easy to deal with has brought us nothing back.

That's on us though, not other clubs. It is the reason come 2028 that the club must be made member based so we can control our destiny rather than being treated like naughty schoolboys

 

[FR0GGY]

That's on us though, not other clubs. It is the reason come 2028 that the club must be made member based so we can control our destiny rather than being treated like naughty schoolboys

Reckon that’s what his last paragraph is saying.

 

[spenze]

Sorry for usurping Bicks but you sent me down this rabbit hole...

I didn't see enough of Barrie Robran and am happy to be debated but this guy I saw a lot of from about 73 and he was an absolute god on the football field. He was tall for a mid in a time guys his height rucked ( may be wrong but him and Rick Davies were the same height).

4 Magarey Medals is insane because the comp had some bloody superstars...and cleanhands playing. He went at 30 to play VFL and he talks about it nicely but he came 8th in the Brownlow and when you hear what he was doing, it makes it all the more impressive.

The guy was an absolute gentleman, I gauge this from being lucky enough to meet him but you can get it from the way he talks up all around him...and he does. He talks up Peter Marker the Glenelg centreman a bit and for Bay supporters, Port made big offers to get him across, was really rated by them.

Anyways, just get past his early life and it is a great video

 

[cleanhands]

Sorry for usurping Bicks but you sent me down this rabbit hole...

I didn't see enough of Barrie Robran and am happy to be debated but this guy I saw a lot of from about 73 and he was an absolute god on the football field. He was tall for a mid in a time guys his height rucked ( may be wrong but him and Rick Davies were the same height).

4 Magarey Medals is insane because the comp had some bloody superstars...and cleanhands playing. He went at 30 to play VFL and he talks about it nicely but he came 8th in the Brownlow and when you hear what he was doing, it makes it all the more impressive.

The guy was an absolute gentleman, I gauge this from being lucky enough to meet him but you can get it from the way he talks up all around him...and he does. He talks up Peter Marker the Glenelg centreman a bit and for Bay supporters, Port made big offers to get him across, was really rated by them.

Anyways, just get past his early life and it is a great video

Don’t drag the standard of name’s down by mentioning me in there

 

[Gtowncrow]

I think those players would be much worse outside of Geelong. Maybe that's how recruiters see it too, they are good more due to system than skill

Interesting point which I'm not sure I'd easily agree with.
Geelong have recruited heavily over the past 20 years. No club has come close to the success they've had with their strategy.

Other than the shining example of Stengle, I can't think of another recruit who has excelled due to system alone. Some actually fell back at the cats but mostly, I think individual players have largely followed their career trajectory. For example, Dangerfield won a Brownlow at Geelong but I feel that was where his career was headed. Cameron won a Coleman but that's not because of Geelong, it's because of Jeremy. Brad Ottens improved but really only because he got himself out of the wooden spoon Richmond era.
Issac Smith, Gary Rowan and Zach Tuohy didn't really change much from their previous output. Higgins and Dahlhaus (not sure of that spelling) actually underperformed compared to their previous clubs.
They've got a couple of young recruits who look likely but nothing I've seen says their improving beyond a usual young player development. Think Braun, Henry.O and Bowes. Their other youngsters are organic like all other clubs.

But back to Stengle, it's hard to think of an individual player who lifted so greatly with a new system which was undoubtedly better for him. But overall, it's debatable methinks.

 

[Scorpus]

Interesting point which I'm not sure I'd easily agree with.
Geelong have recruited heavily over the past 20 years. No club has come close to the success they've had with their strategy.

Other than the shining example of Stengle, I can't think of another recruit who has excelled due to system alone. Some actually fell back at the cats but mostly, I think individual players have largely followed their career trajectory. For example, Dangerfield won a Brownlow at Geelong but I feel that was where his career was headed. Cameron won a Coleman but that's not because of Geelong, it's because of Jeremy. Brad Ottens improved but really only because he got himself out of the wooden spoon Richmond era.
Issac Smith, Gary Rowan and Zach Tuohy didn't really change much from their previous output. Higgins and Dahlhaus (not sure of that spelling) actually underperformed compared to their previous clubs.
They've got a couple of young recruits who look likely but nothing I've seen says their improving beyond a usual young player development. Think Braun, Henry.O and Bowes. Their other youngsters are organic like all other clubs.

But back to Stengle, it's hard to think of an individual player who lifted so greatly with a new system which was undoubtedly better for him. But overall, it's debatable methinks.

But that's exactly my point. These players have perfectly designed roles for them at Geelong which means their output (unchanged from what they'd output at other clubs) is more productive and more useful towards the team winning.

Take Gary Rohan for example. At Sydney he was an awful 9 disposal, 1 goal a game spud, which cost them games because he was being developed as an important fast goal kicking forward and would let them down all the time. At Geelong his output was basically identical, but became a cog in their system, slotting in around all the other effective cogs in their team.

I think if you took a current Geelong player who has been trained to perform one specific role, and suddenly ask them to do more than that role or a different role, they would be worse.

 

[Gtowncrow]

But that's exactly my point. These players have perfectly designed roles for them at Geelong which means their output (unchanged from what they'd output at other clubs) is more productive and more useful towards the team winning.

Take Gary Rohan for example. At Sydney he was an awful 9 disposal, 1 goal a game spud, which cost them games because he was being developed as an important fast goal kicking forward and would let them down all the time. At Geelong his output was basically identical, but became a cog in their system, slotting in around all the other effective cogs in their team.

I think if you took a current Geelong player who has been trained to perform one specific role, and suddenly ask them to do more than that role or a different role, they would be worse.

Agree, but surely that applies to any team...in any teamsport!

 

[adelaidecrows]

But that's exactly my point. These players have perfectly designed roles for them at Geelong which means their output (unchanged from what they'd output at other clubs) is more productive and more useful towards the team winning.

Take Gary Rohan for example. At Sydney he was an awful 9 disposal, 1 goal a game spud, which cost them games because he was being developed as an important fast goal kicking forward and would let them down all the time. At Geelong his output was basically identical, but became a cog in their system, slotting in around all the other effective cogs in their team.

I think if you took a current Geelong player who has been trained to perform one specific role, and suddenly ask them to do more than that role or a different role, they would be worse.

Well this is the difference between Chris Scott and other coaches.

Chris Scott puts players in their positions of strength and builds around each one. Nicks sees a 197cm kid who is a running utility midfielder / defender and sees a key defender.

 

[baldandbroke]

Sorry for usurping Bicks but you sent me down this rabbit hole...

I didn't see enough of Barrie Robran and am happy to be debated but this guy I saw a lot of from about 73 and he was an absolute god on the football field. He was tall for a mid in a time guys his height rucked ( may be wrong but him and Rick Davies were the same height).

4 Magarey Medals is insane because the comp had some bloody superstars...and cleanhands playing. He went at 30 to play VFL and he talks about it nicely but he came 8th in the Brownlow and when you hear what he was doing, it makes it all the more impressive.

The guy was an absolute gentleman, I gauge this from being lucky enough to meet him but you can get it from the way he talks up all around him...and he does. He talks up Peter Marker the Glenelg centreman a bit and for Bay supporters, Port made big offers to get him across, was really rated by them.

Anyways, just get past his early life and it is a great video

Did some coaching work with Russell and Paul Weston in the early 00’s on breaking down video to show what made the greats great on the AFL field - to help the next generation learn quicker.

Was some of the most fun I have had as a footy tragic - sitting with these two and just taking in what they saw.

Russell is about as nice a guy as you would ever meet - Paul not far behind !!

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Well this is the difference between Chris Scott and other coaches.

Chris Scott puts players in their positions of strength and builds around each one. Nicks sees a 197cm kid who is a running utility midfielder / defender and sees a key defender.

Chris Scott also manages his squad far better with rotations & who he uses as sub.

 

[Cromulant]

Chris Scott also manages his squad far better with rotations & who he uses as sub.

He's probably league best at that TBH

 

[Apsaalooke]

He's probably league best at that TBH

Brad Scott must be a mirror image twin then - does everything Chris does in reverse

 

[Floating Doughnut]

Chris Scott also manages his squad far better with rotations & who he uses as sub.

I rate Adam Simpson hugely as a thinker of the game . He is big on stats, trends and analysis. Says he has all the other coaches pretty well worked out except for the better Scott when it comes to setup and rotations. He believes their mids operate with a high level of autonomy so very unpredictable , I reckon Danger changes a lot on the fly.

From transcript: Adam Simpson



“I found Chris Scott did something different at every stoppage. Now, I don't know if the players just went rogue or he had a specific plan. I suspect there's a specific plan around their rucks as well.

Forwarder center, backer center type of thing. So you spend too much time trying to work out what they're doing and you forget what you're meant to do if you're not careful. So all the things that Chris does well, one of those things is probably, he's got a really good system, but there's some flexibility with structure around that as well.

So he was definitely a challenge.

That's great. So Adam, I look forward to you analysing Chris Scott at stoppages in 2025 with the Fox.”

From FOX FOOTY Podcasts: Coach to commentator: Adam Simpson opens up on new journey, plus life after coaching, 2 Dec 2024

This material may be protected by copyright.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I rate Adam Simpson hugely as a thinker of the game . He is big on stats, trends and analysis. Says he has all the other coaches pretty well worked out except for the better Scott when it comes to setup and rotations. He believes their mids operate with a high level of autonomy so very unpredictable , I reckon Danger changes a lot on the fly.

From transcript: Adam Simpson



“I found Chris Scott did something different at every stoppage. Now, I don't know if the players just went rogue or he had a specific plan. I suspect there's a specific plan around their rucks as well.

Forwarder center, backer center type of thing. So you spend too much time trying to work out what they're doing and you forget what you're meant to do if you're not careful. So all the things that Chris does well, one of those things is probably, he's got a really good system, but there's some flexibility with structure around that as well.

So he was definitely a challenge.

That's great. So Adam, I look forward to you analysing Chris Scott at stoppages in 2025 with the Fox.”

From FOX FOOTY Podcasts: Coach to commentator: Adam Simpson opens up on new journey, plus life after coaching, 2 Dec 2024

This material may be protected by copyright.

Give Simpson a year off to refresh then consider him to replace Nicks...

 

[Floating Doughnut]

Give Simpson a year off to refresh then consider him to replace Nicks...

That would be my plan.

On Substitutes I don’t see a huge difference between Coaches, I can’t find any correlation to indicate their thinking
so gave up trying to.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

That would be my plan.

On Substitutes I don’t see a huge difference between Coaches, I can’t find any correlation to indicate their thinking
so gave up trying to.

View attachment 2194132

Cats rarely use the same sub consecutive games.

Also, Scott has used the sub to manage players needing a refresh.

Seen him manage a player for a game, then after a late injury they become sub instead.

Really across the loads of his players, particularly younger & older players.

 

[cleanhands]

Give Simpson a year off to refresh then consider him to replace Nicks...

Half year max