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Just reading through the CAS award looking at Wookie's quotes and I noticed at paragraph 32 it states that Essendon self reported to the AFL and ASADA in September 2012 ! Could this be a simple error in CAS's timeline of events or did Essendon self report much earlier than the legendary press...

Thanks for that. You might also be interested in this more detailed document I posted earlier. "The jurisprudence of the Swiss Federal Tribunal on challenges against CAS awards Prof. Massimo Coccia*" http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Bulletin_2013_2_complete.pdf

http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Bulletin_2013_2_complete.pdf A bit of light reading I tried over lunch. I'm sure some legal types here will do a better job of dissecting it than me ! I couldn't find mention of injunctions but it does set out the grounds for "annulment" which I...

Science is well beyond the hypothesis stage - here's a workable test that has been held up to scientific scrutiny by being published in a peer reviewed journal. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0021967312014550 Quote; The peptide N-acetylated LKKTETQ and its metabolites were...

Great post ! I posted a few scientific papers earlier in this thread that are well worth a read for posters that really want to understand the science. To put it simply - there cannot be any trace of SYNTHETIC TB4/TB500 in your urine sample unless it has been externally administered. It is not...

GL Biochem produce synthetic peptides. The TB4 Acetate they sell is also known as TB500. Discussed earlier in this thread. The neat thing for WADA is you can't piss synthetic TB4 unless it has been administered externally.

"WADA commissions new test" may be a bit misleading. People have to remember that research mostly doesn't happen in isolation and scientists rely heavily on work that has preceded their own. Research in this area is not a new thing and as I posted in the first TB4 thread this has been an issue...

You've become an expert in this field very quickly! The part of the molecule they are referencing is, N-acetylated LKKTETQ, the tell-tale of exogenous TB4/TB500 use. This is an area that has been worked on by real scientists with very sophisticated instrumentation for quite a few years backed...

It's good to see you reading the material I've presented! You are right that deacetylation as the synthetic TB4 passes through the body is one of the obstacles that may make it harder for the experts to differentiate between the exogenous and endogenous TB4 in a urine sample. Science types...

TB4 and TB500 are interchangeable. They both refer to the synthesized version which has been manufactured to replicate the naturally occurring version. Check out the Cas no. 77591-33-4 which is the same for both TB4 and TB500. (Cas. no. is like a chemical ID) Whatever name you want to give the...

Your one sentence sums up everything well ! "Abnormal levels" for something that shouldn't even be found in urine is deliberately misleading. There is no chance anyone on this board would piss urine with synthetically modified TB4 in it. Unless of course they had been administered it EXTERNALLY !

I agree. I think this research into TB4 use in horses/athletes is still fairly recent and testing hasn't been accredited as yet, but I'm sure it is being worked hard on. Interesting one of the obstacles to this research on athletes is the ethics around injecting healthy people with unknown drugs...

GL Biochem and most synthetic peptide companies only sell TB4 Acetate. "acetylation is a common strategy in drug development of peptides to increase the half-life, and therefore the activity, of peptides.[14] This acetylation should allow for a clear differentiation between endogenous and...

I don't believe the type of TB4 Acetate alleged to have been used does occur naturally - all this talk of levels is crap. There is no "normal" level for TB4 Acetate - it just shouldn't be there. From the paper I posted earlier ; "Ac-Tβ4(17-23) corresponds to the acetyl derivative of the major...

Well written concise analysis Gavstar ! Just from my limited knowledge, the alleged TB4 purchased from GL Biochem was TB4 Acetate which I think would make it "exogenous" as you say. This would mean that even a small trace of this type of TB4 found in frozen samples would be not naturally...

Looks like this study was undertaken targetting the drugs allegedly used by Essendon. I think this is probably where the Harcourt (Cologne) samples were tested prompting further investigation. Shows that tests for these drugs won't be far away. Interesting read for the science minded...

I keep hearing of this "phantom shipment" as though it was crucial to ASADA making up the numbers. Has it ever been mentioned what quantity was in the first batch of 26 vials - I've never seen it ? This concept of one vial per player/per charge in nice neat doses doesn't fit with the rest of...

I've followed this mess pretty closely and may have missed something with regards to the quantity compounded by Alavi. How do we know the amount contained in these vials and how many injections per vial were possible ? I doubt it was a nice and neat one vial per player.

Well all the clarity about the substances used at Essendon should be great comfort for the players who I'm sure are able to count (benefit of the doubt) the number of times they were jabbed. If the injections weren't AOD or "Thymo" what the hell were they and why were the players kept in the...

Seems to be an Australian thing to doubt the quality of anything from China. This would never be questioned if TB4 had of been procured from a company manufacturing in Australia, US, UK etc. Could ASADA have been caught off guard with how hard they pursued this first link in the chain ? They...

Never has a group of men come together like this ! Not a single shred of integrity or decency amongst them. So the various links in the chain or (spiderweb!) as I see it ; Hird/Corcoran/Charter/Robinson/Dank supported by other characters like Alavi/Gatto/Salvo/Hardie/Francis/Jones/Holmes and...

This is misleading as it only refers to a second shipment of peptides that appears ASADA had a difficult job getting any evidence of and was only mentioned by Alavi at his fifth interview! I think ASADA probably should have concentrated only on the first better documented shipment. The Bio21...

Dank liked to use AOD in his cocktails at least.... Remember these texts: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/texts-reveal-stephen-dank-discussed-injecting-bombers-with-experimental-racehorse-drug/story-fni5f6kv-1226706049266

Does anyone else think ASADA may have been caught by surprise with regards to the standard of "comfortable satisfaction" applied by the tribunal ? The judges all have decades of experience with "beyond reasonable doubt" standard and seem to have required a syringe with TB4 tested before their...

I was astonished to read in this article from The Age that it appears the batch was tested; " evidence was presented and dissected about the molecular weight of the Alavi batch. ASADA had gained evidence from the Bio21 Institute at Melbourne University, which had measured the molecular weight...

The tribunal seems to have been very sympathetic to the players regarding the "attempted use". Even if they were not comfortably satisfied the substance was TB4, those administering it certainly believed it was and the players agreed to be injected with some form of "cutting edge thymo" that...

To add to your great list above; the evidence of Alavi's compounded batch being tested by real scientists at Melbourne University by mass spectrometry and found to be consistent with TB4. How the tribunal could seemingly brush this aside is astounding !

http://corporate.olympics.com.au/files/dmfile/KateLundy__161012_Kempattach.pdf I know this is old but may be still relevant today regarding subpoenas and CAS. Interesting that the AOC at the time (maybe still does?) preferred matters to bypass the local sports tribunals and go straight to CAS.