Past #1: Hamish McIntosh - drafted at pick 9 in '02 ND - traded to Geelong for #36 in '12 trade period

[The Big H]

As my User name suggests I'm an H fan but, if we trade for a good pick/player and H agrees then we go for it. Then we look at drafting a mature ruckman from the VFL, WAFL, SANFL as a rookie. Don't know their names but I saw some pretty decent ruckman play in a couple of Foxtel cup games this year.

 

[Kimbo]

Trading our only gorilla defender doesn't make a lot of sense, unless they think Cam Delaney or Kennedy can fill that role. But those guys don't have the kilos yet.
Problem for Luke is his closing speed.

If we're wondering if we've got the ruck depth to trade H, what happens the next time Narni goes down?

(Sorry Chron, but Keys was mentioned in the article).

 

[iameviljez]

Geelong interested in hamish... Afl webite

One of those silly season trades that won't actually get done unless the player asks to go, surely. A ruckman in his late 20s to a side who is past glory days doesn't make sense.

"Ignored member" must send me 300 responses a day.

I can only say that I hope you're not referring to your appendage...

 

[Chron]

If we're wondering if we've got the ruck depth to trade H, what happens the next time Narni goes down?

(Sorry Chron, but Keys was mentioned in the article).

Nah its in the article, unlike Brenden Goddard .

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

I can only say that I hope you're not referring to your appendage...

My dicks going alright mate.

Thanks for asking.

 

[Daz]

I wonder (but can't be bothered checking) if the same people thinking Goddard is a good idea are the same people who thought Drummond was a good idea. It is not 2009 anymore people.

I was opposed to bringing in Drummond. Goddard would be a fantastic get IMO.

Finished 4th in the B&F ahead of the likes of Riewoldt, Fisher and Dal Santo. That in one of his bad years where he clearly had leaving the club in the back of his mind.

 

[Chron]

The major issue for me is that I don't rate Mabon as a Ruckman and Majak should play no more than 20% of the game in the ruck, he is a forward. Which would leave us with only Goldy, if Hamish were to depart.

I would like to know from those who believe in trading McIntosh, and then pick up another ruckman whether it be Dawson Simpson or some bloke from the state league, how much of an impact would they be able to have on a game?

I ask because Goldy was horribly out of form, and lets be honest, he got smashed for a majority of the year. Goldy has been in the AFL system a while and whilst he's been out of form, he's still been marginally competitive and kept us in a few games and played a few good games. Yet everytime Hamish pulls on the blue and white you know he will give us an honest crack, go back and watch that last kick after siren to see what playing means for this bloke. So we have the luxury of two genuine ruckman why let it go?

So we bring in a back up from the state league or some second stringer from another club, is that bloke going to give us more output than Hamish? Hamish has his faults, as everyone does, but surely purley from a list management point of view you'd rather sleep at night knowing you've got Hamish at your disposal, rather than a VFL standard Ruckman who at best may give you 2 competeive quarters and then be serviceable, even if it means Hamish takes up a little space in the cap. Consider someone like Cameron Wood who gets exposed when he has to play because he is simply not a good enough ruckman to match it with the opposition, we would only be causing a problem in our ruck division in the attempt to remedy a problem on another line, it doesn't make sense.

Secondly, I feel we can better our side without using Hamish as a bargaining chip. We have gone to consecuative drafts with little to no involvment in trade week and look what we have got.
2008
9. J Ziebell
27. S Wright
43. L Anthony
2009
5. B Cunnginton
21. R Bastinac
25. A Black
37. J McMillan
41. A Kennedy
2010
17. S Atley
27. K.Harper
69. C. Delaney
71. B.Mabon
2011
18. B McKenzie
40. T Curran

If you look over one third of our regular 2012 side has come from the draft in the last four years. Our sights should be firmly set on drafting a Ruckman this draft to complement Goldy when he enters the end of his career. With that in mind, I'd prefer to hang on to Hamish to allow a younger Ruckman to develop, with the added bonus of having Hamish putting pressure on Goldys spot and allowing the flexibility of being able to rest Goldy if the circumstances permit and providing back up if he were to be injured. Note that game were Goldy had the flu and he was shizon and we didn't have a ruckman to bring in, it happens.

I personally think Hamish needs to stay as we are ruck stocks will be very bare if he leaves. The only way I could see any deal happening is if Geelong are that desperate for him they just about give us whatever we want, which in the real world, is very unlikely to happen. I think there are other ways of improving our list, even though according to some he carries the most value, we should continue our drafting strategy and only trade for mature players who would better our midfield, otherwise i place full confidence in Bryce and his team to get the drafting right.


We would leave ourselves very valuable in my opinion, and this second string ruckman is only a short term solution, not a long term benefit, that's how i see it.

 

[SnowRoo]

The major issue for me is that I don't rate Mabon as a Ruckman and Majak should play no more than 20% of the game in the ruck, he is a forward. Which would leave us with only Goldy, if Hamish were to depart.

I would like to know from those who believe in trading McIntosh, and then pick up another ruckman whether it be Dawson Simpson or some bloke from the state league, how much of an impact would they be able to have on a game?

I ask because Goldy was horribly out of form, and lets be honest, he got smashed for a majority of the year. Goldy has been in the AFL system a while and whilst he's been out of form, he's still been marginally competitive and kept us in a few games and played a few good games. Yet everytime Hamish pulls on the blue and white you know he will give us an honest crack, go back and watch that last kick after siren to see what playing means for this bloke. So we have the luxury of two genuine ruckman why let it go?

So we bring in a back up from the state league or some second stringer from another club, is that bloke going to give us more output than Hamish? Hamish has his faults, as everyone does, but surely purley from a list management point of view you'd rather sleep at night knowing you've got Hamish at your disposal, rather than a VFL standard Ruckman who at best may give you 2 competeive quarters and then be serviceable, even if it means Hamish takes up a little space in the cap. Consider someone like Cameron Wood who gets exposed when he has to play because he is simply not a good enough ruckman to match it with the opposition, we would only be causing a problem in our ruck division in the attempt to remedy a problem on another line, it doesn't make sense.

Secondly, I feel we can better our side without using Hamish as a bargaining chip. We have gone to consecuative drafts with little to no involvment in trade week and look what we have got.
2008
9. J Ziebell
27. S Wright
43. L Anthony
2009
5. B Cunnginton
21. R Bastinac
25. A Black
37. J McMillan
41. A Kennedy
2010
17. S Atley
27. K.Harper
69. C. Delaney
71. B.Mabon
2011
18. B McKenzie
40. T Curran

If you look over one third of our regular 2012 side has come from the draft in the last four years. Our sights should be firmly set on drafting a Ruckman this draft to complement Goldy when he enters the end of his career. With that in mind, I'd prefer to hang on to Hamish to allow a younger Ruckman to develop, with the added bonus of having Hamish putting pressure on Goldys spot and allowing the flexibility of being able to rest Goldy if the circumstances permit and providing back up if he were to be injured. Note that game were Goldy had the flu and he was shizon and we didn't have a ruckman to bring in, it happens.

I personally think Hamish needs to stay as we are ruck stocks will be very bare if he leaves. The only way I could see any deal happening is if Geelong are that desperate for him they just about give us whatever we want, which in the real world, is very unlikely to happen. I think there are other ways of improving our list, even though according to some he carries the most value, we should continue our drafting strategy and only trade for mature players who would better our midfield, otherwise i place full confidence in Bryce and his team to get the drafting right.


We would leave ourselves very valuable in my opinion, and this second string ruckman is only a short term solution, not a long term benefit, that's how i see it.

I'll stick to what ive said from day 1. SMACK is our man. Not only because of the romance of the McKernan name but because he screams compitent back up ruck right now. Upsides would be price both trade and salary, the fact he wouldnt expect to play 22 games, age and potential for improvement, he wont walk as a FA next year.

His ruckwork is ok, not great but adequate, his work around the ground again adequate, then again so is Hamish.

 

[showusyacunningt]

Hamish is a great North man and always will be, but you've got to be ruthless and take every advantage when building towards a premiership.

I would love to somehow get Varcoe, but they probably need his outside game as much we do.

Andrew Browne is the guy I'd rookie if Hamish leaves.

 

[Dig Out Ya Soul]

I ask because Goldy was horribly out of form, and lets be honest, he got smashed for a majority of the year.

This really sticks out for me, if H was cherry ripe to go in the second half the season chances are he would have been first choice ruck. Goldy was very ordinary at some stages there, but can only speculate as there would have been a strong chance that they both would have played.

But just goes to show our ruck depth is very weak. H is quality when his got his body right, if we were to trade him & bring in a b/c grade ruckmen there is going to be a helluva lot of pressure on Goldy. Could we really afford to carry him like we did for a period this year when we are striving to be a top 4 team. Don't get me wrong i think Goldy is a very good player, but having his as the sole a/b grade ruckmen on our list may be a case of shooting ourselves in the foot.

Great post btw

 

[Chron]

I'll stick to what ive said from day 1. SMACK is our man. Not only because of the romance of the McKernan name but because he screams compitent back up ruck right now. Upsides would be price both trade and salary, the fact he wouldnt expect to play 22 games, age and potential for improvement, he wont walk as a FA next year.

His ruckwork is ok, not great but adequate, his work around the ground again adequate, then again so is Hamish.

But if Tippet leaves the Crows he'd be next in line, doubt they would get rid of him considering the number of KPP they have lost over the past few years.

 

[fizzydrinker]

We dont need Goddard. While we have sammy wright to play on and beat him this guy is nil to us.

Forget 800k a season, i would be outraged if we were to pay him 500k a season for a HBF'er. Midfielders and gun forwards demand this cash he simply does not.

 

[Chron]

This really sticks out for me, if H was cherry ripe to go in the second half the season chances are he would have been first choice ruck. Goldy was very ordinary at some stages there, but can only speculate as there would have been a strong chance that they both would have played.

But just goes to show our ruck depth is very weak. H is quality when his got his body right, if we were to trade him & bring in a b/c grade ruckmen there is going to be a helluva lot of pressure on Goldy. Could we really afford to carry him like we did for a period this year when we are striving to be a top 4 team. Don't get me wrong i think Goldy is a very good player, but having his as the sole a/b grade ruckmen on our list may be a case of shooting ourselves in the foot.

Great post btw

People forget Goldy was dropped, he was horrible, and i agree with you had it not been for his injury i think Hamish would have rucked on his own. And your right, Goldy had a massive 2011, but was really down on his 2011 form this year, was 2011 for the use of a better word an 'aberration', I think we need another year to be certain, so keeping Hamish has its positives.

 

[SnowRoo]

But if Tippet leaves the Crows he'd be next in line, doubt they would get rid of him considering the number of KPP they have lost over the past few years.

Possibly id have to agree, they are still tinkering with Jacobs, Jenkins and Johnstone then Henderson too. Might cost us more than i was thinking based on what your pointing out. Grrrrrrrr

 

[Daz]

I would like to know from those who believe in trading McIntosh, and then pick up another ruckman whether it be Dawson Simpson or some bloke from the state league, how much of an impact would they be able to have on a game?

I ask because Goldy was horribly out of form, and lets be honest, he got smashed for a majority of the year. Goldy has been in the AFL system a while and whilst he's been out of form, he's still been marginally competitive and kept us in a few games and played a few good games. Yet everytime Hamish pulls on the blue and white you know he will give us an honest crack, go back and watch that last kick after siren to see what playing means for this bloke. So we have the luxury of two genuine ruckman why let it go?

So we bring in a back up from the state league or some second stringer from another club, is that bloke going to give us more output than Hamish? Hamish has his faults, as everyone does, but surely purley from a list management point of view you'd rather sleep at night knowing you've got Hamish at your disposal, rather than a VFL standard Ruckman who at best may give you 2 competeive quarters and then be serviceable, even if it means Hamish takes up a little space in the cap. Consider someone like Cameron Wood who gets exposed when he has to play because he is simply not a good enough ruckman to match it with the opposition, we would only be causing a problem in our ruck division in the attempt to remedy a problem on another line, it doesn't make sense.

They would perform as you'd expect a backup to. It's just not normal to have such a quality player as a backup. It's a luxury no team can afford, whether it be for salary cap or list development reasons. Once a player reaches about 23 if they're not in the best 22 they usually either get delisted or traded if they're good enough to make another side's best 22. It's just common sense.

Of course the backup won't outperform Hamish. However, the bloke we bring in (in the event we don't get a draft pick) should play 22 games and add a hell of a lot more than Hank would playing for Werribee waiting for an injury to one particular player.

It's not like we're trading Andrew Swallow for Jarryd Roughead. We'll still have one of the best young ruckmen in the land. It's just that the backup will revert back to the standard a backup is expected to be.

I'll also add that Hamish almost always gets demolished in the hitouts. Let's not forget that just because he's been out for the best part of 2 years.

Secondly, I feel we can better our side without using Hamish as a bargaining chip. We have gone to consecuative drafts with little to no involvment in trade week and look what we have got.

Then wouldn't you be in favour of getting Bryce Lewis another draft pick to use?

 

[Daz]

We dont need Goddard. While we have sammy wright to play on and beat him this guy is nil to us.

 

[showusyacunningt]

People forget Goldy was dropped, he was horrible, and i agree with you had it not been for his injury i think Hamish would have rucked on his own. And your right, Goldy had a massive 2011, but was really down on his 2011 form this year, was 2011 for the use of a better word an 'aberration', I think we need another year to be certain, so keeping Hamish has its positives.

Goldy will be fine. A so-so season, however he's still only played 60 games. He's still a year or two away from entering his peak as a ruckman. He's probably in the top 3 centre square ruckman around. Just needs to get stronger to be able to compete at stoppages around the ground.

 

[Daz]

It's such a shame he doesn't get more of the ball. He's a beautiful kick.

 

[SnowRoo]

It's such a shame he doesn't get more of the ball. He's a beautiful kick.

Just on this, do we really blame this 100% on Goldy this year or is the run and carry style limiting his opportunity to position himself in transitions?

 

[Daz]

Just on this, do we really blame this 100% on Goldy this year or is the run and carry style limiting his opportunity to position himself in transitions?

Probably a bit of both. He's never been good around the ground.

I blame the drop in contested ball and tackling on Goldy. That's just down to effort and intensity. Very disappointing.

 

[Chron]

We agree to disagree then

Then wouldn't you be in favour of getting Bryce Lewis another draft pick to use?

No, unless the pick produces a player who could provide comparable out put to Hamish if required. The pick we would get would be in the range of around that of Mckenzie last year and he clearly wasn't ready for AFL, you missed my point that we had been building without the need to trade. We have only traded out Gibson and Hale under their circumstances, when Hamish is arguably a required player and in my opinion what we would get for him wouldn't justify it, due to the current position of our list and our ambitions going forward.

We use our allocated picks and anymore we may receive from other player movement and continue our strategy.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

I would love to somehow get Varcoe, but they probably need his outside game as much we do.

Was thinking the same when I looked at the cats squad today. He had a breakout season last year. At only 24 he has a lot of upside, and would bring pace and great ball skills to the team

 

[Chron]

Was thinking the same when I looked at the cats squad today. He had a breakout season last year. At only 24 he has a lot of upside, and would bring pace and great ball skills to the team

They rate him very highly at Geelong, would cost us more than Hamish, believe me.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

They rate him very highly at Geelong, would cost us more than Hamish, believe me.

I thought as much, was just hoping his injury would cheapen him a touch

 

[Chron]

I thought as much, was just hoping his injury would cheapen him a touch

Nah, no chance. He is rated very similar to the way in which we rate Jack, so I doubt very much that Hamish would be enough to get that deal over the line.