I love the head in the sand attitude of some. This yr has not been all that different to other yrs. Every yr for an awful lot the expectation has been he will take the next step and here we all are still waiting.
Player Watch #17: Daniel Rioli - Traded to GC, picks 6&23.
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Vicpol. And your mum.
Our new griggWhen he actualy obtains the ball, he seems to stop, prop. Upon taking a mark, how many times have u seen him put his hand up and flap it up and down to signal "slow it down"? Camera time?
WinterRose
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How can RFC help Dan unlock his potential?
Do they:
* Have an intense chat with him (like Geelong did with Ablett jnr)?
* Drop him from the senior team for an extended period of time?
* Organise for him to talk to a sports psychologist?
* Play him in a different position/role?
* Get the development or forward coaches to spend more time with him?
* Review his training program?
What would you do if you were making the decisions at RFC?
Do they:
* Have an intense chat with him (like Geelong did with Ablett jnr)?
* Drop him from the senior team for an extended period of time?
* Organise for him to talk to a sports psychologist?
* Play him in a different position/role?
* Get the development or forward coaches to spend more time with him?
* Review his training program?
What would you do if you were making the decisions at RFC?
He is basically butler last season.
He will come good again
He will come good again
Has lost his biggest weapon in his pace. Outside of that what does he really bring to the team? I'm not a rabid hater, just trying to be objective.
At the moment he isn't pressuring at a level that counter-balances his lack of offensive impact.
You've got George and Aarts both providing decent pressure and hitting the scoreboard regularly now (sometimes even with goals) then you've got Rioli who doesn't seem to be focused on either aspect and just kind of fills a gap on the team sheet.
One thing's for certain: He can no longer just be a defensive forward.
We lack an elite crumber and that's what he needs to go back and work on because he's capable of being that and there's no other place I can really see him playing on the field.
peternorth
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like butler (at another club)?
peternorth
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Made defenders shit themselves. The Boogeyman checks under his bed every night for Steve Morris.
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Its a fairly good position, to have rioli as depth for George. Aarts. Higgins. Stack. ?
MRJ coming in might freshen up Daniel ams the group.
MRJ coming in might freshen up Daniel ams the group.
peternorth
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He deliberately allowed defenders to obtain the ball so he could pummel them
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Morris was incredible in the vfl premiership
peternorth
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So George and Aarts 17.12 from a combined 13 games is "not enough goals?” That converts to about 22.15 when converted back to full games from the reduced game time we have in 2020. That is 1.7 goals per game per player. As you will see below the absolute top end small forwards’ corresponding figures are probably around 2 goals per game operative average.
Papley is a million dollar goal kicker apparently, he runs at under 1.6 goals per match over his career but has obviously shot up this season as the Swans fatten him up for the market. Charles Cameron Esq runs at 1.5 goals per game career, though admittedly his operative level right now is more like about 2.3. Betts is 1.9 goals per game lifetime. Walters is 1.7 goals per game lifetime. Tobias Greene is about 1.2 goals per game lifetime but in fairness is running up around maybe 1.9 goals per game the last 5 seasons. This is the absolute elite end of small forwards costing upwards of $750k pa for that type of player. We are getting about 3 midget forwards for that price.
So yeah Aarts $150k, Castagna $300k Rioli $350k are not kicking as many goals as these absolute high end elite big money stars. What gun defender/key forward/midfielder do you want to give up to get one of those guys in the door?
Castagna is flying, really gone to a new level this season. Aarts is holding up well. Rioli is clearly struggling. The small forward issues we have experienced this season have mostly amounted to Rioli and to a lesser extent Stack struggling in that position. We have gone most of the time now with 3 tall forwards replacing one of the short people with Mabior Cholassist , the other guy you keep saying doesn’t do enough.
As long as he doesn't come straight back in after doing nothing in the reserves as is usual custom, then I'm happy.
Should have to have a solid 3 week block of good performances in the scratch/practice match sims we are doing at the moment.
I would keep him on the list another year, but it would be make or break for me in 2021, he would need to start impacting games more. Perhaps a role change is in order, seems to get lost and too invisible as a small forward, so the only other place I could see him succeed is as a running winger. He has the endurance and footskills.
Should have to have a solid 3 week block of good performances in the scratch/practice match sims we are doing at the moment.
I would keep him on the list another year, but it would be make or break for me in 2021, he would need to start impacting games more. Perhaps a role change is in order, seems to get lost and too invisible as a small forward, so the only other place I could see him succeed is as a running winger. He has the endurance and footskills.
Keep him till we have MRjnr...
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dimma will find a way to get him back in this week lol
Hope not. Until Maurice Jnr settles in at RFC.
I think Mopsy was replying to a post about regretting letting Butler & Stengle go. (Je ne regret rien.) Small fwd is a hard position to shine in, when you have a fwd line like ours. As you point out Aarts & George are playing well Stack is better in the middle. Greene is the best small fwd around.So George and Aarts 17.12 from a combined 13 games is "not enough goals?” That converts to about 22.15 when converted back to full games from the reduced game time we have in 2020. That is 1.7 goals per game per player. As you will see below the absolute top end small forwards’ corresponding figures are probably around 2 goals per game operative average.
Papley is a million dollar goal kicker apparently, he runs at under 1.6 goals per match over his career but has obviously shot up this season as the Swans fatten him up for the market. Charles Cameron Esq runs at 1.5 goals per game career, though admittedly his operative level right now is more like about 2.3. Betts is 1.9 goals per game lifetime. Walters is 1.7 goals per game lifetime. Tobias Greene is about 1.2 goals per game lifetime but in fairness is running up around maybe 1.9 goals per game the last 5 seasons. This is the absolute elite end of small forwards costing upwards of $750k pa for that type of player. We are getting about 3 midget forwards for that price.
So yeah Aarts $150k, Castagna $300k Rioli $350k are not kicking as many goals as these absolute high end elite big money stars. What gun defender/key forward/midfielder do you want to give up to get one of those guys in the door?
Castagna is flying, really gone to a new level this season. Aarts is holding up well. Rioli is clearly struggling. The small forward issues we have experienced this season have mostly amounted to Rioli and to a lesser extent Stack struggling in that position. We have gone most of the time now with 3 tall forwards replacing one of the short people with Mabior Cholassist , the other guy you keep saying doesn’t do enough.
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LMFAO at the apologists for mediocrity.
Castagna for his career goes at 1.0 goals a game fmd for a permanent small fwd that is and im being kind here very average at best.
Rioli over the journey goes at a whopping 0.8 goals a game.
Aarts with a very small sample size of 5 whole games for 6 goals is going at 1.2 goals a game hardly earth shattering.but hey he may in time prove himself to be better than that.
Yet the bloke we gave away this yr has kicked 17 goals in 9 games at close to two goals a game he has also laid 42 tackles.
Other smalls who we play fwd for the duration go at the following, they at least form a part of rotations and have good reason as to why their numbers would be low.
Bolton 0.78 goals.
Higgins 0.66 goals
Edwards 0.63 goals.
Lambert 0.63 goals
Graham 0.42 goals.
We dont have one small fwd who has managed to kick more than 30 goals in a season except Butler and we let him go.
Our smalls have mostly played in dominant sides and yet they have never ever really set the world on fire when it comes to kicking goals.
Please forgive me for being critical on a point that blind fred can see and would acknowledge.Its a fact our small fwds are not huge goal kickers.
Castagna in particular is cringeworthy in his wastefulness and horrible skills for a small player.He will cost us a big game somewhere along the journey.
Castagna for his career goes at 1.0 goals a game fmd for a permanent small fwd that is and im being kind here very average at best.
Rioli over the journey goes at a whopping 0.8 goals a game.
Aarts with a very small sample size of 5 whole games for 6 goals is going at 1.2 goals a game hardly earth shattering.but hey he may in time prove himself to be better than that.
Yet the bloke we gave away this yr has kicked 17 goals in 9 games at close to two goals a game he has also laid 42 tackles.
Other smalls who we play fwd for the duration go at the following, they at least form a part of rotations and have good reason as to why their numbers would be low.
Bolton 0.78 goals.
Higgins 0.66 goals
Edwards 0.63 goals.
Lambert 0.63 goals
Graham 0.42 goals.
We dont have one small fwd who has managed to kick more than 30 goals in a season except Butler and we let him go.
Our smalls have mostly played in dominant sides and yet they have never ever really set the world on fire when it comes to kicking goals.
Please forgive me for being critical on a point that blind fred can see and would acknowledge.Its a fact our small fwds are not huge goal kickers.
Castagna in particular is cringeworthy in his wastefulness and horrible skills for a small player.He will cost us a big game somewhere along the journey.
sante
Emu
Castagna doesn’t play solely as a small forward. FMD. Do you even watch us?
Rioli will be back for Port game I reckon
Rioli will be back for Port game I reckon
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maurice junior will average 2 goals a game in his first season
Yes, I'm sure we would all personally prefer two of the best small forwards in history... let's try and be realistic.
When Butler played at Richmond he played 45 matches and scored 53.28. He averaged 7.7 points per match off his own boot. Butler recorded an average of about 0.75 goal assists per game in the period he played for us. His total offensive “score" if you like was 12.2 points, just including his goals, behinds and goal assists.
During the period Butler played senior footy at Tigerland, 2017-19 inclusive, Castagna played 71 games and scored 79.72. Castagna averaged 7.7 points per match off his own boot. Castagna also had about 0.5 goals assists per game in the period. His total offensive “score” per game was 10.7 points.
During the same period, Rioli plays 59 games, and scored 55.41. Rioli averaged scoring 6.3 points per match. Rioli also went at around 0.5 goal assists per game. His total offensive “score” was 9.3 points per match.
So by those pretty standard measures Butler was 1.5 points per match better than Castagna and 2.9 points per match better than Rioli.
Butler recorded about 3.5 tackles per match. Rioli 3.25 tackles per match. Castagna 3 tackles per match.
So Butler was level with Castagna for his own scores per game, and ahead of Rioli. Butler was ahead of both in overall scoring impact per game including goal assists. And Butler was ahead of both for tackles per match....
So if you considered no more than that, you would wonder why Butler was let go and the other pair retained. Clearly during our 2019 Premiership season the selectors preferred Castagna and Rioli to Butler when the whips were cracking.
So my question to Mopsy is....are there any other areas in your opinion where Rioli and or Castagna are better than Butler? If so, might these areas explain why they are retained and Butler released?
I have heard Hardwick explain it, possibly diplomatically, that Butler was unlucky he just happened to be out of contract when they had to release some players.
Also for Mopsy, how many other teams can you show who get better output from three small forwards than the combined output of that trio?
Pressure etc aside, their goals, behinds and goal assists were amounting to on average over 32 points per match. their combined average tackles were 9.75 per match. All as specialist small forwards sharing both the load and the opportunities.
Add to that as a trio they were renowned for supplying more pressure than any other small forward division in the comp. Are there really that many teams better off than that for small forwards? They were probably pulling a combined $8-900k from the salary cap as well I am guessing.
All genuine questions. Our small forwards and our decisions around them are a fair topic for conversation right now.
For what it is worth, on exposed knowledge, I believe we retained the right ones.
