1909 VFL Grand Final, South Melbourne vs Carlton Footage

[Borussia Teeth]

Thank you for sharing, that was very fascinating. Love viewing old footage and seeing how our game has evolved.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Anyone know what the finals system was back then? Because I looked up the results and the prelim was the same two teams a week earlier at the G. Got a bigger crowd, was probably a better spectacle as twice as many goals were scored. Result was the other way too:
Carlton 10.9 69 def South Melbourne 7.5 47 (Att: 42,418)

EDIT: Found it - if the minor premier didn't win the grandfinal the winner played them the next week. In this case South were actually in the first gf but lost, so got to challenge the winner the following week:

Second amended Argus system (1907–1930)
The second version of the amended Argus system was used for all seasons between 1907 and 1930 except 1924. This is the most widely known variation of the Argus system.
The structure of the finals was mostly the same as the first amended Argus system, except that the right to challenge was given to the Minor Premier, as defined by the team on top of the ladder at the end of the home-and-away season; sectional rounds were abandoned in 1908 when the league expanded to ten teams. Also, the two semi-finals were shifted onto separate weekends, extending the duration of the finals from two or three weeks, to three or four weeks.

• Week One: the First Semi-Final was played between 2nd vs 4th.
• Week Two: the Second Semi-Final was played between 1st vs 3rd.
• Week Three: a final was played between Winner SF1 vs Winner SF2
  • If Minor Premier won the Week Three final, then that team was immediately awarded the Major Premiership. In these cases, the final in week three has retrospectively become known as the Grand Final.
  • If the winner of the Week Three final was not the Minor Premier, then the finals progress to Week Four. The final in week three became known as either the Final or the Preliminary Final.
• Week Four: the Grand Final was played between Minor Premier vs Winner Final
  • The winner of this match became the Major Premier for the season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_VFL_Final_systems

 

[FedEXFalls]

Also worth reading the wiki of the umpire of the match (and umpire of the century) Jack Elder, a cool little bit of info in there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Elder_(umpire)

 

[TassieSaint]

EDIT: Found it - if the minor premier didn't win the grandfinal the winner played them the next week. In this case South were actually in the first gf but lost, so got to challenge the winner the following week:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_VFL_Final_systems

From memory I think St Kilda lost a premiership to Fitzroy around this time that way, beat them the first time but lost the second. Pretty ridiculous system.

That said I wouldn't complain if it was still around in 97 or 09.

 

[fabulousphil]

Some interesting observations, has anybody noticed that no-one has a number ?.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

So eerie watching that, great footage. Old-school bobby with the large helmet at the end, nice touch.

Kudos to South for stopping Carlton from winning four flags in-a-row.. a triumph over the forces of evil.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Excellent stuff.

 

[FedEXFalls]

Some interesting observations, has anybody noticed that no-one has a number ?.

I wish the bastards had have thought of it by then.. Would've made identifying the players a lot easier.

 

[fabulousphil]

Comapre that one with the Carlton/South GF of 1945 ......35 years later.

 

[PTizzle]

Very cool footage. The place kick was bizarre.

 

[fabulousphil]

2 observations,


What year did players get numbers.

When did the authorities decide that spectators were not allowed on the ground after the game.

I get the feeling that numbers were used in either WA or SA before Victoria.

 

[tonk]

Comapre that one with the Carlton/South GF of 1945 ......35 years later.

Why did you have to bring this one up.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Very, very cool piece of history and the first known filming of Aussie Rules football.

Prepare for a history lesson folks:


Also, lol at 2:50 where the dude looks visibly awkward for having the Sash on the wrong way.

Brilliant stuff. Brilliant.

Carlton were a total powerhouse in this era, playing off in 9 grand finals between 1904 and 1916.

 

[fabulousphil]

Ok all you historians, at which ground is this, and what team is Collingwood playing.
(At around 10.00)

My guess is Victoria Park, those houses in the background look like the side closest to Johnston St.

No idea who they are playing.

 

[Silvagnis]

Kudos to South for stopping Carlton from winning four flags in-a-row.. a triumph over the forces of evil.

Blues lost by two points after a South Melbourne bookie bribed three Carlton players to play dead in the Grand Final.

Doug Fraser and the Bribery Scandal of 1910

Gambling on football was extremely popular. Rumours abounded all through 1910 about certain footballers who were prepared to take money to "play dead", and just as many about certain administrators who were heavily involved in rigging games.

The following comments by Mr T.J Evans, secretary of the Victorian Football Association at its Annual General Meeting in April of 1910 were widely reported with approval by the media:

"Judging by the experience of last season...it is most evident that betting on matches is becoming more prevalent each year. Whilst I quite recognise it is impossible to check this evil amongst supporters, it is only reasonable to expect persons holding positions on club committees will set an example to the players by declining to countenance the practice in every shape and form."

Two weeks after the Essendon game mentioned above, flag favourites Carlton lost to lowly St Kilda, a team who had not won a game all year. Carlton lost and speculation about the club intensified.

Unbeknownst to the players, the Carlton Football Club administration - no doubt stung by criticism levelled at them - had kept several players under surveillance during the season.

Something was discovered after the St Kilda debacle.

The following week, Carlton caused a sensation when it withdrew childhood friends Doug Fraser, champion rover Alex Lang and backman Doug Gillespie from the team less than an hour before they were to take the field in a semi-final against South Melbourne.

Members of the governing committee of the Carlton Football Club were certain that their players had taken money to underperform in the 1909 Grand Final loss to South Melbourne.

Doug Fraser and the Bribery Scandal of 1910

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Blues lost by two points after a South Melbourne bookie bribed three Carlton players to play dead in the Grand Final.

"Say it ain't so, Joe!"

It's OK, South got hit by the karma bus in 1935- only it was more of a karma truck. Legendary forward Bob Pratt was hit by a tram on the eve of the Grand Final against Collingwood- South (who would probably otherwise have won) lost by 20 points.

The truck driver gave Pratt a pack of cigarettes for his troubles

 

[tonk]

Tanking in 1909.................shit.

 

[FedEXFalls]

Culture

 

[The Dice Man]

Excellent video.. What strikes me is how similar general play was, and EVERYBODY wears hats but no sunglasses.

 

[Bluelegs]

Excellent video.. What strikes me is how similar general play was, and EVERYBODY wears hats but no sunglasses.

Sunglasses weren't really popularised until the late 1920's when companies started selling them at an affordable price.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Ok all you historians, at which ground is this, and what team is Collingwood playing.
(At around 10.00)

My guess is Victoria Park, those houses in the background look like the side closest to Johnston St.

No idea who they are playing.

That isn't Collingwood.

I'm pretty sure that is Brunswick v North Melbourne in the VFA in 1910 at Arden Street.

The 1910 Carlton side wore the monogram

 

[DESTRUKTOR]

I don't think the players have the sash the wrong way. if you look at the photos, both teams have 3 players wearing something different tot he rest. Either onballers, or emergencies or something like that.

 

[PumpyChowdown]

• This bloke:
  
  Wouldn't look out of place lining up at full forward in 2012

Absolute beast!

What fantastic footage.

 

[Silent Alarm]

I don't think the players have the sash the wrong way. if you look at the photos, both teams have 3 players wearing something different tot he rest. Either onballers, or emergencies or something like that.

Mero could clear this up. But from my knowledge, people just made their own jumpers. It was probably a mistake of forgetting/not knowing which way the sash went. Most early jumpers were just variations on a loose theme: Some monograms would have letters more prevalent than others, in different sizes, etc. etc.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Mero could clear this up. But from my knowledge, people just made their own jumpers. It was probably a mistake of forgetting/not knowing which way the sash went. Most early jumpers were just variations on a loose theme: Some monograms would have letters more prevalent than others, in different sizes, etc. etc.

Yep.

These blokes were basically the suburban heroes of their time, in a suburban sprawl that finished 10-12 kms from the centre of the city.

Footscray was a Cobb & Co station, Hawthorn was a dairy farm, Windy Hill was a cricket ground and StKilda players only went to Moorabin for their holidays, back around this time.