Certified Legendary Thread 2 x Premiership Coach Chris Scott contracted to 2026 (aka the Chris Scott volumes

[thecatattack]

How is saying a fact disingenuous? What a weird response.



I agree with all this and didn't suggest otherwise. He's a very good coach by every metric, both in terms of premierships won and other criteria by which a coach's success may be judged. He is already among an elite group of the best coaches the game has seen. Not disputing that much. All I'm disputing is the idea that he's best coach ever. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that when weighing up "best coach ever", that premierships won should be a relevant variable.

Using the fact he has two and others have three or four meaning he isn't as good as them is disingenuous and doesn't do much to explaining the flags or his coaching career.

I'm actually in the boat that he isn't the GOAT coach, not yet at least. But there are a lot of coaches who have the same and more flags than him I rate under him.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

There's 17 coaches who have won 3 flags or more, and of that group 12 won 4 flags or more. As much as I like Scott, it's the absolute definition of recency bias to think a guy with 2 premierships to his name is anywhere even close to being the best coach in the history of the game.

I don't think there's a coach who has consistently got back of the draft role players to play at the level he has. Most coaches, even the ones with 4 flags either did it in an era without equalisation or they rode a brilliant list on a streak.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

How is saying a fact disingenuous? What a weird response.



I agree with all this and didn't suggest otherwise. He's a very good coach by every metric, both in terms of premierships won and other criteria by which a coach's success may be judged. He is already among an elite group of the best coaches the game has seen. Not disputing that much. All I'm disputing is the idea that he's best coach ever. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that when weighing up "best coach ever", that premierships won should be a relevant variable.

I don't think purely flags won is a genuine argument in this situation.
Multiple flags from eras where teams were up for a few decades don't correlate into modern football metrics, likewise a coach who took a bottom 2/3 team and got into a winning situation for a short time to win 3+ flags while relying on multiple top 5 draft picks and priority picks, to then drop down the ladder into irrelevancy right after shouldn't hold a candle to a bloke whose keep a team who SHOULD have been bottom 4 for a decade, in perpetual contention in an age of equalisation with all but no help from anything or anyone outside the club to keep them there.

Has there been a team within the last 25-40 years a team who just came off a decade of success and top finishes and flags, continue to stay at the top and contend while rebuilding the list, and doing so without some sort of concessions?
If he can win 3 and do it in the way he's done it, I think being considered right at the very pointy end of GoaT coaches is absolutely in the conversation.

 

[Baudolino]

I don't think purely flags won is a genuine argument in this situation.
Multiple flags from eras where teams were up for a few decades don't correlate into modern football metrics, likewise a coach who took a bottom 2/3 team and got into a winning situation for a short time to win 3+ flags while relying on multiple top 5 draft picks and priority picks, to then drop down the ladder into irrelevancy right after shouldn't hold a candle to a bloke whose keep a team who SHOULD have been bottom 4 for a decade, in perpetual contention in an age of equalisation with all but no help from anything or anyone outside the club to keep them there.

Has there been a team within the last 25-40 years a team who just came off a decade of success and top finishes and flags, continue to stay at the top and contend while rebuilding the list, and doing so without some sort of concessions?
If he can win 3 and do it in the way he's done it, I think being considered right at the very pointy end of GoaT coaches is absolutely in the conversation.

...so in other words, you think he isn't yet the GOAT of coaches, and the reason you think that is because he hasn't won enough premierships yet. Which was my whole point. Lol.

 

[catempire]

I agree it's about more than flag count, but flag count isn't irrelevant either.

Isn’t that what I said?

 

[Baudolino]

Isn’t that what I said?

In your OP you did say that flags were the most important measure but you also said that what Scott had done across 15 years was the most spectacular coaching effort in history, which to me is contradictory. I'd argue that if you really believe premierships are the most important measure of success, then you can't consider a coach who has won 2 flags to have coached better than anyone else in history, when there's other coaches who have 3-7 flags.

 

[Lana]

He is the GOAT, using premierships as a guide is like using premierships to compare players.

Who has done more with less?

 

[catempire]

In your OP you did say that flags were the most important measure but you also said that what Scott had done across 15 years was the most spectacular coaching effort in history, which to me is contradictory. I'd argue that if you really believe premierships are the most important measure of success, then you can't consider a coach who has won 2 flags to have coached better than anyone else in history, when there's other coaches who have 3-7 flags.

Not at all contradictory. It’s simply a matrix of considerations.

Say I think the measure of how good a piece of art consists of three factors:

1. The technical skill of the artist
2. The uniqueness of the piece
3. The emotions it evokes in me

I can say 1 is the most important but a piece of art that is outstanding across factors two and three is superior even if inferior to other pieces of art when measured solely in factor one.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

This it the style that Norm Smith, Flanagan, McHale coached.
Nothing like what Scott, Clarkson etc coach now.

This is like trying to compare WG Grace to Steve Smith.
Completely different eras and game, albeit the same sport.

Trying to compare Scotty to coaches of the past is too subjective.
He is a great coach, and another flag would certainly help solidify him as the GOAT of the modern era.

 

[Baudolino]

Not at all contradictory. It’s simply a matrix of considerations.

Say I think the measure of how good a piece of art consists of three factors:

1. The technical skill of the artist
2. The uniqueness of the piece
3. The emotions it evokes in me

I can say 1 is the most important but a piece of art that is outstanding across factors two and three is superior even if inferior to other pieces of art when measured solely in factor one.

Fair enough. I think we both agree that a) flags are the most important thing when measuring the success of a coach and that b) nonetheless, coaches should be judged according to more than just flag count. The difference between us is mainly just one of hie much emphasis we put on those two areas.

 

[Mr Meow]

How is saying a fact disingenuous? What a weird response.



I agree with all this and didn't suggest otherwise. He's a very good coach by every metric, both in terms of premierships won and other criteria by which a coach's success may be judged. He is already among an elite group of the best coaches the game has seen. Not disputing that much. All I'm disputing is the idea that he's best coach ever. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that when weighing up "best coach ever", that premierships won should be a relevant variable.

The argument was only going to be started that he was in the conversation, if he won a 3rd flag with half a different list to his 2nd. Ideally he'd still need a 4th. But I wouldn't think it's silly to elevate him to the standing of say the top 5 if the Cats salute this year, given he has had us consistently contending for 15 years straight.

 

[Strange Cat]

Scott will finish with another few flags before he’s done with GFC imo

Then it’ll be a very easy discussion about the merit of a GOAT label

 

[Baudolino]

The argument was only going to be started that he was in the conversation, if he won a 3rd flag with half a different list to his 2nd. Ideally he'd still need a 4th. But I wouldn't think it's silly to elevate him to the standing of say the top 5 if the Cats salute this year, given he has had us consistently contending for 15 years straight.

All fair!

There's quite a few people in here claiming he's already the GOAT though.

 

[Mr Meow]

All fair!

There's quite a few people in here claiming he's already the GOAT though.

Well yeah personally I disagree with that. My view is some sort of mix of yours, catumpire and Mad Hatter's.

 

[catempire]

Fair enough. I think we both agree that a) flags are the most important thing when measuring the success of a coach and that b) nonetheless, coaches should be judged according to more than just flag count. The difference between us is mainly just one of hie much emphasis we put on those two areas.

Yes, sums it up.

 

[catempire]

All fair!

There's quite a few people in here claiming he's already the GOAT though.

If this is directed at me, that’s not quite my view. I was responding to someone else who was positing what if Scott won a third this year.

I think he’s nearly the best ever right now based on his record of sustained success. But only two flags holds him back from that. A third would frank it in my view.

 

[Warhorse]

All fair!

There's quite a few people in here claiming he's already the GOAT though.

I said if he wins the flag this year. I don't count pre AFL as they were amateurs.

His only rivals are Matthews, Clarkson and perhaps Hardwick.

Matthews had a stacked list. If he was coaching Geelong right now we wouldn't be playing finals.

Clarkson is collecting spoons, had a stacked list and feasted on interstate teams during the finals. Hasn't been able to reinvent himself like Scott.

Harwich had a good run for a couple of years but has been horrid either side of that.

None of these coaches would have kept Geelong competitive and winning flags in that time. All of them relied on a stacked list. Scott has done remarkable things with the list at his disposal

 

[Baudolino]

Clarkson is collecting spoons, had a stacked list and feasted on interstate teams during the finals. Hasn't been able to reinvent himself like Scott.

The list Scott inherited doesn't count as "stacked"?

 

[Warhorse]

The list Scott inherited doesn't count as "stacked"?

You seem unable to read an entire post. Not worth discussing further with you. Ignored

 

[Baudolino]

You seem unable to read an entire post. Not worth discussing further with you. Ignored

Awwww, I wanted to discuss further. Imagine how many circles we could have gone round in and how much time of our lives we could have wasted together.

 

[fpm84]

 

[iameviljez]

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that when weighing up "best coach ever", that premierships won should be a relevant variable.

True, but not all premierships are equal.

Scott is coaching in an era where, from roughly 2016 on, 18 clubs are on an even footing to win a flag.

Back in the year 2000, it was 16 clubs. Prior to that, in the mid-90s, it was 14.

Back in the last couple of decades of the VFL, it was 12 clubs - but of those, 4 of them were playing with one hand tied behind their back (StKilda, South, Fitzroy, and Footscray). It's bloody hard to win a flag when your recruiting zone is shit, you have to sell players to make ends meet, and your opponents can just go interstate and buy up guys like Kernahan, Platten, Cable et al.

 

[Warhorse]

Clarkson and Hardwick tried to do what Scott has done. Top up and get a flag.

Both done exactly the same - topped up and left the club in an absolute mess.

 

[cats_09]

Clarkson and Hardwick tried to do what Scott has done. Top up and get a flag.

Both done exactly the same - topped up and left the club in an absolute mess.

Both of those guys also had access to early draft picks which they were able to build their team around, but once the going got tough we saw they weren't cut out for the hard yards required

Scott didn't have access to those high end draft picks with Jhye Clark his highest and it's not exactly like Jhye is a key part of our team this year

 

[iameviljez]

Clarkson and Hardwick tried to do what Scott has done. Top up and get a flag.

Both done exactly the same - topped up and left the club in an absolute mess.

In fairness, if there's an alternative reality where PFD doesn't land in our lap, it may have gone very differently for us.