2004 Draft Revisited

[_RT_]

It had nothing to do with Livo, the topic involves Tambling and a comment was made about him. It may be correct, it probably wont be but as soon it was made you sooked up and went off topic! I'm not running anywhere, you're yet to ask a tough question and give me any facts that would send me anywhere. The only person who ran was you when a poster made a comment about Tambling that you didn't like and you ran and hide behind a drafting mistake from 2002, not 2004 which is your topic

Maybe you never saw it but I asked this question earlier in the thread and will ask it of you.

Do you believe that Roughead is a better player than Griffen?

 

[Melbdave81]

Maybe you never saw it but I asked this question earlier in the thread and will ask it of you.

Do you believe that Roughead is a better player than Griffen?

No i believe that they are about the same level. Griffen has played some outstanding football running across the half back line and through the middle though i also think Roughead has been very impressive playing KP both up forward or down back. Personally i think there is more upside to Roughead and i would expect him to become a Key Forward this year in the Hawthorn revival.

 

[_RT_]

No i believe that they are about the same level. Griffen has played some outstanding football running across the half back line and through the middle though i also think Roughead has been very impressive playing KP both up forward or down back. Personally i think there is more upside to Roughead and i would expect him to become a Key Forward this year in the Hawthorn revival.

Knowing that stats are not always the true story, why is Tambling rated an error by so many when the only realy difference between him and Franklin is that Franklin has 2 games with 6 goal hauls?

In every other stat they are either level or Tambling is slightly ahead. The only thing that people seem to come up with is talls take longer to develop. When questioned as to why people then comapre a KPP to a HFF/Midfielder it gets said that Franklin is a HFF as well, the story changes so often from one poster to the next.

According to Hawthorn Franklin is a developing KP prospect, the Tigers see Tambling as a developing Onballer. They are totally different players yet people like Parrot and many Hawks fans want to constantly compare the 2.

 

[Melbdave81]

Knowing that stats are not always the true story, why is Tambling rated an error by so many when the only realy difference between him and Franklin is that Franklin has 2 games with 6 goal hauls?

In every other stat they are either level or Tambling is slightly ahead. The only thing that people seem to come up with is talls take longer to develop. When questioned as to why people then comapre a KPP to a HFF/Midfielder it gets said that Franklin is a HFF as well, the story changes so often from one poster to the next.

According to Hawthorn Franklin is a developing KP prospect, the Tigers see Tambling as a developing Onballer. They are totally different players yet people like Parrot and many Hawks fans want to constantly compare the 2.

They are compared because most people were surprised to see Tambling go before Franklin. Franklin is an amazing talent mainly because of his size and speed and the majority of fans would have him over Tambling because he is a KPP with amazing potential.

Now, Tambling may turn out to be an absolute superstar but it is always easier to find a midfielder as opposed to a KPP. At this stage, in my opinion Franklin has showed more and I believe that the majority of Richmond fans would agree with that. As i have said, Tambling may turn out better but at this stage Franklin is better and I certainly would have him at Carlton ahead of Tambling.

In relation to stats, i don't rate them especially these days when it is so easy for a midfield type to get cheap touches while a forward usually has to work harder for his.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

According to Hawthorn Franklin is a developing KP prospect, the Tigers see Tambling as a developing Onballer. They are totally different players yet people like Parrot and many Hawks fans want to constantly compare the 2.

Not that I want to get involved in the Franklin/Tambling debate as I'm sure Tambling will be just fine, let me explain what I think you're trying to understand.
The reason so many people bring up the two of them is the exact same reason that Fiora and Pavlich are brought up, it's not a comparison of two players playing the same role, it's more of a "you could've had a matchwinner, but you went for a dime-a-dozen midfielder" in that case.

Now whether you choose to see it or not, Franklin has won two games off his own boot in his second year. It's understandable that people are excited by what he could be in a few years time. He has everything needed to be a Superstar of the game. Whether he is a HFF, FP, CHF or whatever he has the atributes to succeed.

Tambling has pace, agility, skill and flair. Whether he becomes a genuine matchwinner remains to be seen, but as far as comparisons go it's quite easy for people to lay claim to Franklin being the better choice as not much was expected of him in his first few seasons due to him being seen as a KPP.

 

[_RT_]

They are compared because most people were surprised to see Tambling go before Franklin. Franklin is an amazing talent mainly because of his size and speed and the majority of fans would have him over Tambling because he is a KPP with amazing potential.

Now, Tambling may turn out to be an absolute superstar but it is always easier to find a midfielder as opposed to a KPP. At this stage, in my opinion Franklin has showed more and I believe that the majority of Richmond fans would agree with that. As i have said, Tambling may turn out better but at this stage Franklin is better and I certainly would have him at Carlton ahead of Tambling.

In relation to stats, i don't rate them especially these days when it is so easy for a midfield type to get cheap touches while a forward usually has to work harder for his.

I can accept that and the fact is Tigers fans are happy with Tambling and Hawks fans are happy with Franklin. In the 04 draft the Hawks needed KPP and took 2 in the same draft the Tigers needed more midfield options. If the draft had of gone as planned I believe the Tigers would quite possibly have taken Deledio and Roughead, but the Hawks changed the plan when they took him at 2.

 

[Melbdave81]

I can accept that and the fact is Tigers fans are happy with Tambling and Hawks fans are happy with Franklin. In the 04 draft the Hawks needed KPP and took 2 in the same draft the Tigers needed more midfield options. If the draft had of gone as planned I believe the Tigers would quite possibly have taken Deledio and Roughead, but the Hawks changed the plan when they took him at 2.

How can you possibly believe that. Tiger fans have openly stated on here that your defense is suspect because you don't have quality talls and you went out and got Kingsly and Polak (both huge risks) this year. If you had drafted a KPP in 04 when you had the chance you may have been able to keep pick 8 this year and had the choice of more players than you did and then got a quality player in the PSD.

 

[_RT_]

How can you possibly believe that. Tiger fans have openly stated on here that your defense is suspect because you don't have quality talls and you went out and got Kingsly and Polak (both huge risks) this year. If you had drafted a KPP in 04 when you had the chance you may have been able to keep pick 8 this year and had the choice of more players than you did and then got a quality player in the PSD.

As I said the plan was to take Deledio and then a KPP next but when Tambling fell through who was rated better than Franklin the Tigers pounced. Hindsight is a wonderful thing in 04 the Tiger were wooden spoon winners and went 14 games without a win to end the season from memory. Tambling as you said could well turn into a star he could also be another run of the mill footballer. Franklin could also go the same way. A couple of years later and Franklin is rated as being better, based on two 6 goal hauls. Regarding 04 Wallace had planned to use Schulz as a CHB but injury halted that plan. We now have a list of about 6-7 KPP types aged under 23 Schulz, Hughes, Polak, Thursfield, Pattison, Riewoldt, McGuane and Graham(rookie). So while the apparent error in taking Tambling first could have hurt we have been able to gather a group of young KPP that while not having the high profile of Franklin they could well turn out to be just as good. Only time will tell for sure.

In regards Polak and Kingsley they cost the Tigers nothing really we still got a first round pick in Riewoldt and we got the best player available with our pick in the PSD.

 

[parrot]

As I said the plan was to take Deledio and then a KPP next but when Tambling fell through who was rated better than Franklin ....

..by Terry, but no-one else. What a complete draft disaster. No other way to describe that decision.

 

[parrot]

A...In regards Polak and Kingsley they cost the Tigers nothing really we still got a first round pick in Riewoldt ...

Sounds like you actually got sucked in by Terry's 2006 post draft-gaff spin. No other team was going to use a first round pick on Riewoldt - the earliest he was predicted to go was late second round to mid-third round. The Crows were amazed that Terry let Sellar slip through. Recruiting an ineffective KP forward in the PSD, and earmarking him for the #2 KP forward role, was a desperate attempt to try to cover up another KP-forward drafting slip-up. Do you realy think any other team in the competition would want Kent on their list? Perhaps you should ask yourself why that is the case.

 

[_RT_]

..by Terry, but no-one else. What a complete draft disaster. No other way to describe that decision.

Sounds like you actually got sucked in by Terry's 2006 post draft-gaff spin. No other team was going to use a first round pick on Riewoldt - the earliest he was predicted to go was late second round to mid-third round. The Crows were amazed that Terry let Sellar slip through. Recruiting an ineffective KP forward in the PSD, and earmarking him for the #2 KP forward role, was a desperate attempt to try to cover up another KP-forward drafting slip-up. Do you realy think any other team in the competition would want Kent on their list? Perhaps you should ask yourself why that is the case.

SSDD

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Tambling as you said could well turn into a star he could also be another run of the mill footballer. Franklin could also go the same way. A couple of years later and Franklin is rated as being better, based on two 6 goal hauls.

Buddy has shone on more occasions than just the two bags of 6.

vs Ade - 3 goals, 11 possessions
vs Bris - 3 goals, 16 possessions
vs Ess - 3 goals, 9 possessions
And a number of games where he kicked 2 goals.
He averaged more goals in 2006 than anyone on Richmonds list.
But it's not just about goals, watch him play and see what it is he has at his disposal.
Height, Pace, Agility, Skill, and that little bit of arrogance.

 

[_RT_]

Buddy has shone on more occasions than just the two bags of 6.

vs Ade - 3 goals, 11 possessions
vs Bris - 3 goals, 16 possessions
vs Ess - 3 goals, 9 possessions
And a number of games where he kicked 2 goals.
He averaged more goals in 2006 than anyone on Richmonds list.
But it's not just about goals, watch him play and see what it is he has at his disposal.
Height, Pace, Agility, Skill, and that little bit of arrogance.

Tambling in 06 had:
23 possies 11 marks vs Geelong
18 possies 10 marks vs Port
19 possies 6 marks vs WCE in an 88 point belting.

Yeah Franklin has height yet takes less marks than Tambling, Deledio and Roughead and averages less disposals than the other Top 5 players form the 04 draft. Yet he is a star & Tambling is a so called error. Go figure.

Finally Franklin averaged 2.2 goals per game, Richo 2.5 but I gather he don't count.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Finally Franklin averaged 2.2 goals per game, Richo 2.5 but I gather he don't count.

My apologies, I didn't do my research very well, as I had read this quotyed elsewhere and assumed it was correct.

Getting back to Tambling and his possessions, surely it's much easier for a young midfielder to get possessions than it is for a young KPP or forward to get possies and goals. Midfielders can find alot more space than forwards do, especially whena forward as a designated opponent whose job it is to stop them getting a touch.

 

[dipper86]

Tambling in 06 had:
23 possies 11 marks vs Geelong
18 possies 10 marks vs Port
19 possies 6 marks vs WCE in an 88 point belting.

Yeah Franklin has height yet takes less marks than Tambling, Deledio and Roughead and averages less disposals than the other Top 5 players form the 04 draft. Yet he is a star & Tambling is a so called error. Go figure.

Yeh nice stats when your floating up the ground getting cheap uncontested possessions, getting marks on the wing with no opponents, while Franklin is in the forward line having impact on matches playing in a harder position.

Finally Franklin averaged 2.2 goals per game, Richo 2.5 but I gather he don't count.

Nice, Richo a seasoned AFL KPP while Franklin is a youngster, that makes Franklin look even better.

 

[lids2004roar]

They are compared because most people were surprised to see Tambling go before Franklin.

Including the experts who predicted he would go at number 2 in the draft?

Bling was rated the 2nd best prospect of the 2004 draft. The only surprise was that he slipped so far back, I don't think anybody expected him to go after Buddy.

 

[parrot]

..Bling was rated the 2nd best prospect of the 2004 draft....

Sounds like you're looking for excuses now. Only Terry rated him that highly. No serious recruiter rated him ahead of Franklin. What a complete drafting disaster.

 

[lids2004roar]

Riewoldt - the earliest he was predicted to go was late second round to mid-third round.

1 Carlton Bryce Gibbs
2 Essendon Scott Gumbleton
3 Kangaroos Lachlan Hansen
4 Brisbane Lions Matthew Leuenberger
5 Port Adelaide Joel Selwood
6 Hawthorn James Sellar
7 Geelong Mitchell Thorp
8 Collingwood Leroy Jetta
9 St Kilda Jack Riewoldt
10 Collingwood Albert Proud
11 Western Bulldogs David Armitage
12 Melbourne Nathan Brown
13 Richmond Daniel Connors
14 Adelaide Clayton Collard
15 Sydney Thomas Hislop
16 West Coast Clinton Benjamin

link: http://www.thedrafter.net/articles/articles.asp?ad_id=56



The following forum indicated a majority of opinion expected him to be drafted between 8-10: http://www.*************.au/forums/index.php?showtopic=3084




Here's another prediction from a mock draft:

8: Richmond : Jack Riewoldt (193cm, 84kg)

Link: http://www.********************.net/2006-afl-mock-draft-preview-picks-6-to-10/



I think.... maybe... you are wrong.

 

[parrot]

...Here's another prediction from a mock draft:..

OK, so it seems you regard online mock footy drafts and footy forums as the authority on recruitment. Perhaps Terry does as well. I'll stick to the general consensus of the professional recruiters of 15 other Clubs - who ranked him as a late 2nd round or mid third round pick. A 192cm KP forward/utlity with questionable mobility is hardly a standout.

 

[hoogs]

How about a neither, they will all suck option?

 

[wahawk]

BTW my line about Livingstone was in reply to this:

Livingstone had absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

Not 1 other person had mentioned him. YOU DID.

YOU changed the subject to suit yourself and then had a go at others for doing the same.

can someone help me,there's an old saying,

people who live in glass houses shouldnt.........

oh thats right

shouldnt throw stones



Keep it real tiger

 

[_RT_]

My apologies, I didn't do my research very well, as I had read this quotyed elsewhere and assumed it was correct.

Getting back to Tambling and his possessions, surely it's much easier for a young midfielder to get possessions than it is for a young KPP or forward to get possies and goals. Midfielders can find alot more space than forwards do, especially whena forward as a designated opponent whose job it is to stop them getting a touch.

Funny I thought Franklin was a HFF as descibed by many who want to compare him to Tambling. If as you say he is a KPP then again how can you compare him to a HFF/Onballer.

Yeh nice stats when your floating up the ground getting cheap uncontested possessions, getting marks on the wing with no opponents, while Franklin is in the forward line having impact on matches playing in a harder position.

Nice, Richo a seasoned AFL KPP while Franklin is a youngster, that makes Franklin look even better.

A true indication would be to look at Franklin & Tambling in depth:
196cm and 95kg Big Tall Athletic KPP

In 2006 Franklin Averaged:
11.5 disposals
3.7 marks
0.6 contested marks
1.7 contested possessions
4.3 errors per game

Tambling Averaged:
12.2 disposals
4.3 marks
0.1 contested marks (a bloke 181cm & 78kg would not be expected to take many)
1 contested possession
1.7 errors

Explain if you will just how Franklin gets heaps of contested possessions again. Remember this kid is a supposed KPP and yet he figures are like that of an average HFF

 

[_RT_]

Livingstone had absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

Not 1 other person had mentioned him. YOU DID.

YOU changed the subject to suit yourself and then had a go at others for doing the same.

can someone help me,there's an old saying,

people who live in glass houses shouldnt.........

oh thats right

shouldnt throw stones



Keep it real tiger

Yeah I went off topic yet you have posted a couple of times in the last 2 nights and have yet to actually address the topic. At least I address it.

 

[dipper86]

Funny I thought Franklin was a HFF as descibed by many who want to compare him to Tambling. If as you say he is a KPP then again how can you compare him to a HFF/Onballer.


A true indication would be to look at Franklin & Tambling in depth:
196cm and 95kg Big Tall Athletic KPP

In 2006 Franklin Averaged:
11.5 disposals
3.7 marks
0.6 contested marks
1.7 contested possessions
4.3 errors per game

Tambling Averaged:
12.2 disposals
4.3 marks
0.1 contested marks (a bloke 181cm & 78kg would not be expected to take many)
1 contested possession
1.7 errors

Explain if you will just how Franklin gets heaps of contested possessions again. Remember this kid is a supposed KPP and yet he figures are like that of an average HFF

Well he is getting more contested possession than Tambling also more contested marks meaning young Tambling is following the ball up on the wings getting cheap easy ball inflating his stats, Franklin is playing in a harder position having more impact on games and kicking more goals.

Preety simple really.

 

[_RT_]

Well he is getting more contested possession than Tambling also more contested marks meaning young Tambling is following the ball up on the wings getting cheap easy ball inflating his stats, Franklin is playing in a harder position having more impact on games and kicking more goals.

Preety simple really.

Yeah it is simple, for someone as big as Franklin he does not do nearly enough in contested situations. The stats don't lie in this case.