2008 Player Review

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Ablett, Luke - Serviceable at best. Bit slow. Game has overtaken him. Trade.
Barlow, Ed - Got injured but expected more from him this year. Looking for bigger things next year.
Barry, Leo (Veteran List) - One more year for you mate.
Bevan, Paul - Love your commitment, hate your dumb errors. Keep.
Bird, Craig - Top first year. Future gun.
Bolton, Craig - Great year.
Bolton, Jude - Ready to get rid of him last year but he improved out of site this year. Love him again.
Brabazon, Ryan - Shocking hairdo but looks likely.
Brennan, Luke - Not up to it, delist.
Buchanan, Amon - Just a fair year, perhaps trade bait?
Crouch, Jared - ready to delist but he bought another year late.
Currie, Daniel - Been waiting for you, Ringburner, you deliver, we are a force again.
Davis, Nick - Thanks for 2005 semi, see ya.
Everitt, Peter - You tried.
Faulks, Peter - Hit the weights, still 18 months away for mine.
Fosdike, Nic - One more chance based on Crouchy's return.
Goodes, Adam - Champion, thanks Lethal for ****ing your season up, enjoy the rest, get better, another Brownlow next year.
Grundy, Heath - Time to step up, Reg.
Hall, Barry - Got it outta your system, Baz? 2 more years on recent form.
Jack, Kieren - Champ, love him.
Jolly, Darren - One of the top ruckmen in the comp. Put a younger decent ruckman alongside (yes that's you, Ringburner) and he'll be a gun.
Kennelly, Tadhg - Fix the shoulder. Love you mate but if you can no longer break lines it might be time. Another year.
Kirk, Brett - You can play as long as you want.
Laidlaw, Matthew - Injury prone but with a heap of talent. A knee and 2 hammies this year. Look to play seniors regularly next year.
Malceski, Nick - Think the op was a mistake. Hasn't played well since bar one good game. Hope he's stronger next year. Gun when right.
Mathews, Ben - Gone
Mattner, Martin - Not bad. A few mistakes but he has a crack. I like him.
McVeigh, Jarrad - From McHack to McLegend this year.
Meredith, Brett - Lot of talk about him. May play some matches next year.
Moore, Jarred - Great step up this year.
O'Keefe, Daniel - Big talk about the kid. Could be the midfield gun we need.
O'Keefe, Ryan - Seemed out of sorts a bit this year. Some talk he wants to move home. Hope not.
O'Loughlin, Michael (Veteran List) - Another year in Magic. His absence made Rhino's year a bit more difficult.
Playfair, Henry - Not quite up to it, but a good understudy KPP. Keep.
Richards, Ted - 1% king. Proves Sheedy knew as much about footy as I do about female emotions.
Roberts-Thomson, Lewis - Much maligned but I don't mind him. Needs a few more footy smarts.
Schmidt, Tim - Bit stiff to be dropped then injured. Should replace Ablett in the senior side.
Thornton, Kristin - Missed the year with an ACL. Been around a couple of years now. I get the feeling he's not quite up to it.
Veszpremi, Patrick - Exciting debut, but I'd like him to HTFU a bit. And get fit.
White, Jesse - Geez big blokes look and are dumb. Will be wanting him to step up to senior footy next year. Need another big key backman.

Murphy, Brendan - Big talk about the Irish kid. Looking for 6 games from him next year. Needs to be ready to go 2010 when Baz moves to FF.

Generally still a bit on the slow side. Currie is sooo important to ensure we get first use otherwise we are chasing tail like last night. However we are chunky and strong over the ball. Still no stars in the midfield so we will remain a bit on the ugly side, but if you want beauty and grace, go to the effing ballet! We'll be top 6 again.

 

[MF]

Very good assessment there Bruce and I whole heartedly agree with most of your points. A couple I disagree on though:

ROK - He had a fantastic season unitl injuring his ankle and since then I've noticed that Roos has opted to keep him up forward more which I think indicates that like Goodes, he has lost the ability to cover large distances over the ground. Only negative against him this season is accuracy.

Luke Ablett - Has been carrying an injury throughout most of the season and has been unable to train properly. Still possible trade bait but I don't think the game has passed him by.

Paul Bevan - I don't think he's made any more errors than the likes of Kennelly, Mattner and Leo. Hard to fault him this year really and he will only get better.

 

[Corpuscles]

Just posting to say well done on post and thread

I am not sure I entirely agree... but need to think about a better response.

Maybe you have been a bit too complimentary/positive about a few!?

Thank you for that , interesting read

 

[SOPH_CROSS]

U forgot Orreal he is going 2 be a gun

 

[ssfc0203]

Nice analysis. Don't think I agree about dumb errors from Inspo (Bev). He makes as many as other defenders, but the tagger/defender role he plays tends to blow the mistakes out. Fantastic when in the forward line.

Cheese didn't live up to what he produced last year this year.. injury concerns probably.

We'll be right when we get out injured players in.

Aim for the club in the off season: Convince Schmidt to stay. Do everything to make RyanO stay.. I know I'll breathe easier when his contract is signed.

 

[Perth Swans]

What about the Canadian Rugby Guy Mike Pyke?

 

[SM]

Not on the official list.

 

[No1SwansFan]

Nice analysis. Don't think I agree about dumb errors from Inspo (Bev). He makes as many as other defenders, but the tagger/defender role he plays tends to blow the mistakes out. Fantastic when in the forward line.

Cheese didn't live up to what he produced last year this year.. injury concerns probably.

We'll be right when we get out injured players in.

Aim for the club in the off season: Convince Schmidt to stay. Do everything to make RyanO stay.. I know I'll breathe easier when his contract is signed.

That might be an issue. He has deserved a seniors spot and didnt get to keep it. He would be a walk up starter to a number of clubs. Hes hard can kick long and accurately and beteen the sticks. I just hope they can throw enough of whatever it takes at him to stay. Give him the number 4 or number 10 Guernsey.

 

[No1SwansFan]

What about the Canadian Rugby Guy Mike Pyke?

I reckon he wont be far off playing provided the skills come on quickly. You have got to think the swans desperately need a bit of athleticism in the back line and a hard body which he has in spades by the sounds of it.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Maybe a bit hard on Bevan as he has improved a lot and is certainly hard. But he's been around a while now and when Robert Murphy turned him inside out on Friday night I was furious. It was so obviously coming I spilt my sister's drink by leaning into her. He just seems to have these lapses in concentration. I don't know much about the Canadian bloke, I'm in Melbourne, but I heard he's a tank. I'm not sure how many late converts to footy we can carry though. LRT, Tadgh, Murphy....

I stand by my assessment of Ablett. He's always been something of a battler in the side and whilst I love him, I'd suggest Schmidt, Bird, Fossie, can all play that role equally as well if not better.

Sorry, Soph, haven't seen "Beanie" play yet. From what I can tell, he's still a couple of years away. I think Ringburner might be ahead of him for the ruck at the moment.

 

[SM]

LRT wasn't a convert...

As was pointed out in another thread he was an U15 All Australian.

 

[Corpuscles]

....*alternative to list below*

FWIW - to get it out of my system.. sorry if boring & obvious to all!?


SYDNEY
B: Leo Barry, Craig Bolton, Martin Mattner
HB: Lewis Roberts-Thomson, Ted Richards, Tadhg Kennelly
C: Paul Bevan, Jarrad McVeigh, Nick Malceski
HF: Ryan O’Keefe, Adam Goodes, Jarrad Moore
F: Darren Jolly, Barry Hall, Jared Crouch
Foll: Peter Everitt, Brett Kirk, Jude Bolton
Int: Luke Ablett, Amon Buchanan, Kieren Jack, Patrick Veszpremi
Emg: Craig Bird, Ryan Brabazon, Heath Grundy

Out Injured: Michael O'loughlin

This was Swans final side of 08

Blue = Players I do not see any likely improvement in future and some may decline rapidly
Bold = real worries as to whether they can improve
Red = Players where is is hope that they can still improve and especially the debutants or 2nd year players
Purple = Retired or maybe will or ought think about it

The obvious issue facing Swans NOW is how to improve with so many key spine KPP's likely to be on the decline???

But if most of them are still on list its hard to see many of them being displaced ie not picked due to experience in starting 22 ???? If so despite flankers improving likely to mean serious aggregate decline in 09?

The key issues as I see it are:

1. Midfield
Is too encumbered with slow stoppers and scrappers when to change to modern game we need some pacey game breakers.
McVeigh has improved but to become the (Kerr ,Judd, Bartel G Abblet jnr) type we need means stepping up and improving almost as much again next year and needs some new blood assistance in the middle!
- if we have not got that potential on list already then maybe time for some to be punted/ traded and cap freed up to chase recruit of top liner???

2. KPP forwards -
BBBH played well at times but is not a great overhead dominant mark! He is very predictable usually. Most clubs seem to be able to frustrate him out of dominating like he did in 05/06 and unlikely to improve much!

MOL - Superstar but can he really keep body together to be consistent all year in 09 and still dominate? Likely to be on major age related decline
He really doesn't kick enough goals for a FF!

Goodes - Must reinvent himself to extend career as a KPP forward. Serious effort to learn that skill to excellence (in leading and goal kicking!)

3. Backs
Ted and Mattner stepped up
LRT stagnant - does well but is he really a KPP back?
Leo declining rapidly

Desperately need to blood a new KPP to help C Bolts out!

4 Fringe backups

Brennan - will he ever get his kicking and consistency up to become a KPP? He is unlikely to displace flankers unless injuries occur.

Playfair - Ditto can he improve to seriously hold down CHF or FF? 09 is make or break for him! Unless happy playing ressies in ACTAFL? Maybe backup ruck?

5 Potential

Injuries have really clouded impression or ability to assess many but

Barlow & Schmidt- after a promising 07 they must get right and make themselves potential "Goodes replacement" in midfield or could be curtains!
.... or trade?

R Brabazon P Veszpremi J Moore M Laidlaw one of them must become a regular starting midfielder and be better midfield contributors than L Abblett or A Buchanan.... or trade?

D Okeefe B Meredith hard to tell whether they can make an impact but must push for selection and if fit be given game time in 09

J White & H Grundy - OK at least one has to put hand up and be asked to rise to a KPP back and push for regular selection in best 22 ... or trade?

6 Ruck

Currie or somone is now desperately required every week. LRT does OK and may reinvent himself as a no2 if puts 100% focus on it. Playfair also played ruck as a junior maybe a chance to do the same?

It will be a pity if Swans have to waste a pick on a temporary replacement again (eg J White)


IF

Swans coaches etc cannot see someone who has not been a regular standing up in 09 as a
-replacement KPP back for Leo!
-replacement KPP forward
-better attacking midfielder to replace Goodes and maybe ( others) in middle
-become 2nd Ruck

THEN

I reckon hard trade decisions have to been made to get the balance right for a NEW revised team to work on a more modern, less predictable, faster more attacking gameplan that can build up to challenge for the flag!

 

[carsoutback]

I don't disagree much with your analysis at all about what is needed Corpuscles. The issue is how you get them and I'm not sure what you mean by "hard trade decisions". "Last uncompromised draft" or not, I am not convinced that now is right time for Sydney to abandon trading draft picks for established players if necessary. Not for players at Jeff White's age and career-stage certainly, but players similar to a Mattner career-point would seem ideal. One problem Sydney have is that we don't have too many players of value to trade, given the age of our list - so we'll have to lose some picks to get them. That will be hard eh? LOL. I certainly wouldn't want us to be trading guys like Grundy or Barlow or Schmidt.

I reckon that some clubs might trade well for our draft picks, given the limited pickings next year for them. Contrary to popular belief, this may be a good time for us to trade whatever good picks we have - if we get the right deal of course!

 

[Corpuscles]

I don't disagree much with your analysis at all about what is needed Corpuscles. The issue is how you get them and I'm not sure what you mean by "hard trade decisions". "Last uncompromised draft" or not, I am not convinced that now is right time for Sydney to abandon trading draft picks for established players if necessary.
....
Contrary to popular belief, this may be a good time for us to trade whatever good picks we have - if we get the right deal of course!

Thanks for reply . I agree with you.

What I meant was there are quite a lot (heaps!!) of Swans who have been in the system a while that simply not likely to become KPP's and most other positions are filled for the time being. They may have a better chance of making best 22 elsewhere, IF Swans can target someone potential replacements for the old brigade of the type you describe.

eg

SYDNEY
B: Leo Barry, Craig Bolton, Martin Mattner
HB: Lewis Roberts-Thomson, Ted Richards, Tadhg Kennelly
C: Paul Bevan, Jarrad McVeigh, Nick Malceski
HF: Ryan O’Keefe, Adam Goodes, Jarrad Moore
F: Darren Jolly, Barry Hall, Jared Crouch
Foll: Peter Everitt, Brett Kirk, Jude Bolton
Int: Luke Ablett, Amon Buchanan, Kieren Jack, Patrick Veszpremi
Emg: Craig Bird, Ryan Brabazon, Heath Grundy

Out Injured: Michael O'loughlin

Can you or anyone else see any of the blue NOT in starting best 22 (baring injury) in 2009? Which means opportunity is still very limited!!!! Until retirements happen (bold) likely to be gone end of next yr or 2010


I guess the radical thought was unless the cattle in best 22 changes then other things like gameplan can't or nor overall performance likely to improve!

Having said that (maybe I contradict myself) but there are so many clubs retiring a lot of players this year and all that means the competiton to pick up mature players likely will be fierce!

So maybe they have to make a decison or two that may be unpopular. If a bloke is not likely to make regular 22 in next 2 yrs (due glut of that type) maybe they better off shopped even for higher r 2 or 3 pick?? or a more particularly required type to change balance

One example Tim Boyle Haw (several say is a dud?) but might have limited opportunity at Hawks and potential as a KPP forward with experience and likely to be cheap!!

I certainly hope the club experts think they already have all the requirements but Roosey seems to make a few hints that they need some new blood somehow!

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Not sure we should be trading draft picks. The next year remains the era of Cat and Hawk and the cost to bridge that gap is too much with little likely success. However, we have at least 3 KPP's coming through....Faulks, White, Murphy. I'd be looking to draft another. We have 2 ruckmen coming through....Currie, Orreal, and quite a number of utilities/onballers.......O'Keefe, Schmidt, Meredith, Brabazon as well as those who have stepped up this year.....Bird, Veszpremi, Moore. Flags take time, and I reckon we should be looking to challenge again by 2010/2011. We don't need to top up to stay top 6. We don't need to recruit d1ckheads like Didak, old hacks like White, or even guns like Kerr. Stay competitive, blood some more youngsters while Kirk is still there to show them how, then have another real crack in a couple of years.

 

[Corpuscles]

Not sure we should be trading draft picks. The next year remains the era of Cat and Hawk and the cost to bridge that gap is too much with little likely success. However, we have at least 3 KPP's coming through....Faulks, White, Murphy. I'd be looking to draft another. We have 2 ruckmen coming through....Currie, Orreal, and quite a number of utilities/onballers.......O'Keefe, Schmidt, Meredith, Brabazon as well as those who have stepped up this year.....Bird, Veszpremi, Moore. Flags take time, and I reckon we should be looking to challenge again by 2010/2011. We don't need to top up to stay top 6. We don't need to recruit d1ckheads like Didak, old hacks like White, or even guns like Kerr. Stay competitive, blood some more youngsters while Kirk is still there to show them how, then have another real crack in a couple of years.

Gee you know your Swans Bruce. Good post again!

BUT

Bolton 1 & 2, ROK, and Goodes will ALSO be gone by 2011

With Kirk, Hall, MOL ,Kennelly , Barry, Spida

Thats 10 critical KPP's and only 2-3 yrs by your schedule to get them and settle them into a shot at it?

 

[western swan]

Gee you know your Swans Bruce. Good post again!

BUT

Bolton 1 & 2, ROK, and Goodes will ALSO be gone by 2011

With Kirk, Hall, MOL ,Kennelly , Barry, Spida

Thats 10 critical KPP's and only 2-3 yrs by your schedule to get them and settle them into a shot at it?

so you believe ROK @ 27 is likely to last only 2 more years? ie. retire at the end of 2010?

somehow i find that hard to believe, unless he has indeed returned to victoria, which in that case im pretty sure his contract would have him playing for more than 2 years at which ever club he signs with (not a large chance of him actually leaving though)

plus B1, B2 and Goodes are only 28...i also see them playing on for a few more years past the end of 2010, and particularly someone of Goodes calibre

it should also be considered that Everitt is 34 and only just retired and unless they drop off like Benny did they still have quite a number of seasons left in them

 

[Corpuscles]

so you believe ROK @ 27 is likely to last only 2 more years? ie. retire at the end of 2010?

somehow i find that hard to believe, unless he has indeed returned to victoria, which in that case im pretty sure his contract would have him playing for more than 2 years at which ever club he signs with (not a large chance of him actually leaving though)

plus B1, B2 and Goodes are only 28...i also see them playing on for a few more years past the end of 2010, and particularly someone of Goodes calibre

it should also be considered that Everitt is 34 and only just retired and unless they drop off like Benny did they still have quite a number of seasons left in them

You are right (but note all ages you quote are very early birthdates this year ie have turned 31 & 30 before '11 season starts so maybe will they will still be there)

I did not make my point very clear. Even with those aging stars... there would need a build up with established youth behind it to seriously challenge flag again. Last time Roosey had a big core of potential in mid 20's most with some experience to work with!!!

Hopefully (as I said) most of what is required is already in the fold??

 

[western swan]

You are right (but note all ages you quote are very early birthdates this year ie have turned 31 & 30 before '11 season starts so maybe will they will still be there)

I did not make my point very clear. Even with those aging stars... there would need a build up with established youth behind it to seriously challenge flag again. Last time Roosey had a big core of potential in mid 20's most with some experience to work with!!!

Hopefully (as I said) most of what is required is already in the fold??

I know what your saying, once they are gone (which will be just about the same time considering their similar ages) we are left with a team of inexperienced players. Hopefully thats not so soon, hence allowing them to become more experienced, as we would be left in a veryyy unfavourable position in regards to challenging for premiership any time soon.

I hope our young guys can stand up and become what the club needs, but at the moment i wouldnt rely on that, although we do have a few possible greats, im not holding my breath for a lot of them haha

 

[Dudley]

We would be negligent as a club if we did not look at players of the ilk of Kerr and Didak.

In the same way we should look at young blokes on other clubs lists, and if we rate them try and trade for them.

It is silly to think we have all the great youngsters, we have a good young crop, especially given the picks we got them with, but we always shoud be looking. If the price is right we take them.

I know it is easy to look at success, but does anyone regret spending our first rounder on a 10 year ruck like Jolly ?

It is, if not the hardest, the equal with FF, to find. Jolly is a recruiting coup of massive propotions, every team in the comp tries to do it. Unless they specifically want to leave, no clubs let them go, they are few and far between, we now have two.

 

[bigsee]

am i the only person that doesnt rate craig bird?

i just dont think he was able to match the intensity of the afl this year, made lots of mistakes, too many skill errors at crucial times and was just too slow

i think he needs a full year playing ressies. but if the idea was to blood him this year, give him a feel for it, then maybe he will come out better for it next year

 

[Corpuscles]

am i the only person that doesnt rate craig bird?

i just dont think he was able to match the intensity of the afl this year, made lots of mistakes, too many skill errors at crucial times and was just too slow

i think he needs a full year playing ressies. but if the idea was to blood him this year, give him a feel for it, then maybe he will come out better for it next year

I note your Brisbane location. No offence but

Yes he did start slowly, I wondered too, a bit, why they persisted.

But what you see live at games, is different from TV... which tends to highlight errors.

There were some brilliant passages of play and display of skill mid to late season that showed he has genuine class, is not slow, and is learning quickly.

He is likely to develop into the gun he is cracked up to be! Only first year!

Hope that helps

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Gee you know your Swans Bruce. Good post again!

BUT

Bolton 1 & 2, ROK, and Goodes will ALSO be gone by 2011

With Kirk, Hall, MOL ,Kennelly , Barry, Spida

Thats 10 critical KPP's and only 2-3 yrs by your schedule to get them and settle them into a shot at it?

Relax, man, think back to 2002. If you knew then that we were about to lose Kelly, Cresswell, Dunkley, Maxfield, Schwass, Schauble, and Saddington, could you possibly have envisaged a flag in 2005? These guys set the standard. Kirk, Bolton, Hall, Leo etc applied it. That's why now is most certainly not the time to discard the "No ********" policy. That means no Didak.

 

[disgruntled goat]

am i the only person that doesnt rate craig bird?

i just dont think he was able to match the intensity of the afl this year, made lots of mistakes, too many skill errors at crucial times and was just too slow

i think he needs a full year playing ressies. but if the idea was to blood him this year, give him a feel for it, then maybe he will come out better for it next year

Bird is seen by some, including me, as a future Swans captain. His work ethic and his general attitude are outstanding, and his all-round skills and decision-making will improve with game time. He has very, very good hands.

You want to see mistakes, look at tapes of Marty Mattner's disposal and general sense of confusion, particularly in our defensive 5om. I still can't believe he doesn't cop it from more people on this board.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Bird is seen by some, including me, as a future Swans captain. His work ethic and his general attitude are outstanding, and his all-round skills and decision-making will improve with game time. He has very, very good hands.

You want to see mistakes, look at tapes of Marty Mattner's disposal and general sense of confusion, particularly in our defensive 5om. I still can't believe he doesn't cop it from more people on this board.

Bird's first year was the equal of Bryce Gibbs 2007 in my opinion. Roosy went right against his normal method in bringing him straight through. I've got faith in that.