2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread [Part I]

[ant555]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Rather than looking for half back flankers with a lot of picks this year they need to find a reliable small forward.

 

[Kong]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

All over it big fella.

 

[Hencho]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Was just looking at our list and trying to figure out where the big clean out will come from. Hird said he wanted to see what the team had.

I think at the end of the year there will be a clean out of players (8-10 players) who the coaching staff genuinely think can not be a part of our next premiership side. This is what I came up with:

Keep:
Bellchambers
Browne
Carlisle
Colyer
Crameri
Daniher
Davis
Dempsey
Fletcher
Gumbleton
Hardingham
Heppell
Hibberd
Hille
Hocking
Hooker
Howlett
Hurley
Jenkins
Jetta
Lonergan
Long
McVeigh
Melksham
Myers
Pears
Ross
Ryder
H.Slattery
Stanton
Steinberg
Watson
Webster
Winderlich
Zaharakis

Trade else Keep:
Davey
Monfries
Dyson
Lovett-Murray
Welsh
Williams
Prismall
Reimers

Trade else Delist:
Neagle
Quinn
Silverlock
T.Slattery


Regarding some of the younger guys like Webster, Ross, Jenkins I don't know much about them, if they've been on the list for 2-3 years and shown nothing then delist them.

We are better off having a crack at WAFL, SANFL and VFL players than persisting with guys who have no chance.

 

[Kong]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Reckon we're more likely to see Silverlock, and perhaps even T Slattery, than Williams and Dyson kept.

 

[Childish Gambino]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Doesn't Williams still have a year to run on his contract?

 

[Hencho]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Silverlock I originally had in the Keep but he's had time and hasn't shown a great deal, I know he had a bad injury last year, I'm just not sold.

T.Slattery is a backman and we seem to have them in abundance. Can't imagine they'll keep him.

Williams does have a contract hence it's trade or keep.

 

[Kong]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

I'm only guessing, but if he hasn't gotten a game since Round 4 of 2010, despite our club screaming out for goal kicking forwards, and being a ready made recruit on a reasonable amount of money, I'd say he's goneski.

I reckon they'll pay him out, free up cap space (assuming that's how it works) and replace him with either another recruit or simply another young player.

I don't regret the trade for how it worked out overall with swapping of picks etc, and I was excited to have him to begin with, but the guy's done nothing. Surely the club will cut their losses.

 

[Hencho]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

GWS could easily pay out his 350K contract so we could trade him there and he'd be a good fit. Although his lackadaisical attitude may not fly too well with the coaching staff given he'll be setting an example for the young playing group.

I doubt we'd pay him out and delist, serves little purpose, I don't beleive it frees up cap space either, I think that's what I read once with the Fevola issue.

 

[ant555]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

These are the issues with a few on the list IMO

Neagle - pretty obvious, no heart or mental strength.

Dyson- handy but not someone who will step up week in and week out. Dpeth player that can be covered.

Gumby- always injured which causes a problem as to how long do you wait for him to come good. Still has to find some decent form even if he can string some games together.

Stanton- good B grade player but we need to rely on 5 or 6 players in front of him to go forward and not be wanting him to be in our best 5 players. Currently in our best 10 players when he should be in the 10 to 20 area. Has got to his level and that is about where he is at.

Monfries - average player who has not gone forward in the last 3 years. He is slow, can not position to crumb the ball, chips in as the lead up player too much and has a slow footy brain.

Winderlich - hope he can come back but he does still have on going back/hammy issues.

Prismall - not the player most thought he would be. lacks in too many areas and continually does U Turns.

Welsh- was being set to play defensive forward but i think his race is run. Too many young blokes in front of him.

Long- very early on but the injuries that hurt his TAC years are now hurting us. Has class and moves well but i wonder if his name was Jones and not Long if he would have been picked up.

Daniher - like Gumby just how much time can you spend. Unlike Gumby he came with a bit of Hype from his name as he was never a super consistent TAC Cup player.

Davey - at his best he is good although he would be a super star if he could eliminate the fumbles. His form varies a lot and both times he has injured his arm he has been horrible after it.

Ryder - has the tools but will he ever get them out of the box and bloody well use them. Doubt he has ever gone at 100% in a game. Needs some angry pills or a rocket or whatever but as a 100 game player he can sot simply amble around like a C grade player for much longer.

Colyer- may surprise a lot bit i have not been impressed with any of his senior games this year, NAB or regular season. His VFL form has been pretty good but has lobbed in the senior side and failed to show any run for periods of time and is often walking when he needs to be running.
One asset of his is his pace, if he is not going to use it then he becomes useless. has not lived up to a few of his games last year. Not yet in the dump zone but needs to work harder.

Willaims - not interested. One trick pony and that trick is no longer of any use. pay him out.

T Slattery- goes hard, defends well but still can not hit the side of a barn by foot.

Reimers -big mouth soft **** ! Could be a good player but is too in love with himself and is soft. Can not believe how he could get back in and play really good footy the first 2 games only to fall back to his old ways looking for easy kicks an placing stuff all pressure on.

Quinn - good goer but can not read the ball in the air and that makes him just a VFL player.

Lovett-Murray - goes hard, tries hard but simply lacks the tricks to be anything more than a depth player. he is not clean enough at ground level to be a genuine midfielder, he gives away 3 or 4 stupid free kicks most weeks.
He is simply a C grade player.

Harsh on some and a few may lift their level but i dont think you can carry so many questions and think you are a genuine top 4 side.

 

[GoldenboyHird_5]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

18 names!

That's effectively just under half a list. Just shows how weak the competition is this year if the ladder stays as it is this year.

 

[Yoda_]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

In regards to delistings, people still need to look at contractual status' and reacquaint themselves with who can actually go and (Mark Williamss) who can stay.

Players out of contract at the end of the year are:

Tom Bellchambers
Jake Carlisle
Travis Colyer
Darcy Daniher
Rick Dyson
Dustin Fletcher (Veteran)
Kyle Hardingham
Heath Hocking
Cale Hooker
Sam Lonergan
Anthony Long
Nathan Lovett-Murray
Jake Melksham
Brent Prismal
Andrew Welsh
Jason Winderlich
Stewart Crameri (Rookie)
Josh Jenkins (Rookie)
Jay Neagle (Rookie)
Michael Quinn (International 3rd Year Rookie)
Taite Silverlock (Second Year Rookie)
Tyson Slattery (Rookie)
James Webster (Rookie)

I'm thinking that Rick D's letters are already stamped, playing consistent footy in the twos but still can't get a look in. Would love to see him get to the magical 100 games for the club but is a long haul back for the 94 game veteran. I would not be against keeping him for depth as he will come in and do a solid job, but do we want/can we afford to keep someone on the list to be a depth player? Probably not.

Nathan Lovett-Murray is another interesting case, is he in our best 22 when everyone is fit? probably not. Is he reliable enough to be in our top 23? possibly, is he one of the most versatile players on our list? absolutely. So where do we draw the line for him? Personally, I would not be at all against delisting him, however, he has done some solid jobs this year and played his role in a number of positions.

If only he could go back to 2009 and start afresh, seemed destined to failure as soon as he was traded to us. I was all over him as someone who could help us out, boy was I wrong. Think some people are starting to realise why he played majority of his football forward and not on ball at Geelong? Think his days closesly monitered daily.

As Ant555 said, has been passed by many, with Hocking our number one onaball tagger, he had no place there, Crameri now a force as a third tall forward, Welsh is going to find it difficult to fit back into the side.

Question; has Jason Winderlich ever played 22 games in one whole season? Answer. No Can he return from this latest and most serious of his injuries? I would love to see him return, but think his injury history is really starting to count against him this time. I could see him given one year, if any and see how he returns.

Jay Neagle, Nuff said.

I would love to see Michael Quinn held onto in some sort of capacity for the Bendigo team or even in a development role at Essendon. A good VFL footballer, a leader who has come on since he first arrived in Australia.

As much as he has been one of my favorites, he simply does not give us much going to other way (offensively). Much like his name sake, he is a shut down player with skills that are average at best. With the recruitment of a few defenders, can see him returning to Adelaide and making a name for himself in the SANFL.

Now to a couple of interesting ones.

Anthony Long is a talented enough player, he just needs his body to allow him to hold up to the rigours of AFL football. I would not be against him being rookied for a year to see how his body holds up coming into his physical prime (20 - 21 years old).

The other, Darcy Daniher. At his best he is a strong marking third tall forward/defender who uses it well. Is reasonably quick. After reading someones suggestion, I would not be against seeing Darcy rookied for a year to see what he can make for himself. At his best, he could easily be pushing for first 22 selection.

And just on one of the bolded guys, Taite Silverlock I get the feeling we will see again next year, is starting to recapture some form he had from 2010, would love to see him push his case for a debut later this year if he continues to improve.

Also, could not agree more Whomb (RE. Mark Williams). Sitting nicely on (probably) $300,000 + per year and not doing a great deal. He would be laughing, I agree, pay him out and move on from yet another trade bungle.

On the rest of our list, I am starting to warm to the idea of entertaining trade options for Paddy Ryder. Can he reach the heights he seems destined for? or will he be that "almost there" star that every club has? I get the feeling with the continued improvement of Bellchambers and the recruitment of Jenkins as a mature rookie, he could gain us something of great value.

Kyle Reimers is another who would be walking on thin ice, at his best, he has all the tricks, showcased in his 8 goal haul against the Suns a few weeks back. I think he could be of value elsewhere as we have a few small lead up forwards on our list.

Angus Monfries, everyone knows my opinion of 'Gus', why can he not improve?

 

[Duckworth]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Fair summary.
With the impending upgrade of Crameri to the senior list you'd think that 4 of these must go...

Jason Winderlich
Nathan Lovett-Murray
Brent Prismal
Darcy Daniher
Anthony Long
Andrew Welsh
Rick Dyson

Someone want to rank them in order of who should be signed first?

Personally I'd ditch Williams and cut our losses. Take our chances on keeping another kid.

 

[Yoda_]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Fair summary.
With the impending upgrade of Crameri to the senior list you'd think that 4 of these must go...

Jason Winderlich
Nathan Lovett-Murray
Brent Prismal
Darcy Daniher
Anthony Long
Andrew Welsh
Rick Dyson

Someone want to rank them in order of who should be signed first?

Personally I'd ditch Williams and cut our losses. Take our chances on keeping another kid.

Darcy Daniher
Jason Winderlich
Rick Dyson
Anthony Long
Nathan Lovett Murray
Brent Prismal
Andrew Welsh

 

[eth-dog]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Fair summary.
With the impending upgrade of Crameri to the senior list you'd think that 4 of these must go...

1. Jason Winderlich
5. Nathan Lovett-Murray
4. Brent Prismal
2. Darcy Daniher
3. Anthony Long
7. Andrew Welsh
6. Rick Dyson

Someone want to rank them in order of who should be signed first?

Personally I'd ditch Williams and cut our losses. Take our chances on keeping another kid.

That's what I think

 

[ant555]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

One thing to remember when working out list space is next year there may not be a rookie list. The negotiations are under way to have the rookies scrapped and a couple of extra places added to the list along with the rookie spots. It is one part of the enterprise agreement with the AFLPA that the AFL agrees with. The lists could be close to 50.
Both WA sides have put in a submission to field their own sides in the WAFL and there will be changes in the VFL with more clubs going it alone from next year so the numbers will be needed.

 

[eth-dog]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

One thing to remember when working out list space is next year there may not be a rookie list. The negotiations are under way to have the rookies scrapped and a couple of extra places added to the list along with the rookie spots. It is one part of the enterprise agreement with the AFLPA that the AFL agrees with. The lists could be close to 50.
Both WA sides have put in a submission to field their own sides in the WAFL and there will be changes in the VFL with more clubs going it alone from next year so the numbers will be needed.

Will they be increasing the cap if this happens? They'd have to, wouldn't they?

 

[ant555]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Will they be increasing the cap if this happens? They'd have to, wouldn't they?

Yes it will increase with the new TV deal.

 

[yaco55]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Fair summary.
With the impending upgrade of Crameri to the senior list you'd think that 4 of these must go...

Jason Winderlich
Nathan Lovett-Murray
Brent Prismal
Darcy Daniher
Anthony Long
Andrew Welsh
Rick Dyson

Someone want to rank them in order of who should be signed first?

Personally I'd ditch Williams and cut our losses. Take our chances on keeping another kid.

Let me have a go.

Mark Williams ( pay him out )
Ricky Dyson
Brent Prismall
Nathan Lovett-Murray
D.Daniher

Think that the first four are certainties.

Welsh
Monfries
D.Daniher
A.'Long

On thin ice.

D.Fletcher

Could he retire.

Rookies

M.Quinn
J.Neagle
T.Slattery

 

[hank31]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Ok, my stupid iphone wont post for some reason, this is the 3rd time I've tried to write this..

Anyone questioning Jason Winderlich's place on our list has rocks in their head.. IIRC, he was 3rd in our B&F last year!! Have a serious think about the pace we lack up forward.... Now you have thought about that, have a think about who might fix that....

So what if Winders will be coming off a reco, he is only 26... Plenty of footy left in front of him..

Seriously, some people never want to leave rebuilding mode.. Glad you guys aren't managing the list..

He would be at the very back end of delisted players if he was to be, so basically a late pick 18 y.o will add more to the club than Winderlich?

In 3 words: NO F****ING WAY!

<end rant>

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Interesting article by Jon Ralph in todays HS with quotes from Bellchambers management.

I think teams like the Tigers will be throwing big bucks at Bellchambers and the oppurtunity to be first ruck.

What would be a realistic trade?

 

[Slattery_20]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Interesting article by Jon Ralph in todays HS with quotes from Bellchambers management.

I think teams like the Tigers will be throwing big bucks at Bellchambers and the oppurtunity to be first ruck.

What would be a realistic trade?

Plenty of cap space, not too worried.

 

[daffo]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

With rookies being pulled we will have space to keep an extra player or two. I would assume that we would keep either Dyson or Prismal on the senior list next year. Pris will be the most likely.

 

[DVD Player]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Interesting article by Jon Ralph in todays HS with quotes from Bellchambers management.

I think teams like the Tigers will be throwing big bucks at Bellchambers and the oppurtunity to be first ruck.

What would be a realistic trade?

Yuck. I hate that parasite.

 

[hank31]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Interesting article by Jon Ralph in todays HS with quotes from Bellchambers management.

I think teams like the Tigers will be throwing big bucks at Bellchambers and the oppurtunity to be first ruck.

What would be a realistic trade?

It is the biggest what if article for a while.. Dont get your hopes up..

Number 1, we have plenty of $$$ to pay him so that wont be a lure..

2ndly Hille is almost done as a ruck, Bellchambers knows that.

He IS OUR NO1 ruck at the moment.. He hasn't been dropped and has started as the ruckman every game we have played this year so i dont know where Jon Ralph is pulling the lack of opertunities card from..

At the end of the day though Amcre, you wont have any bargaining chips to low ball us with, so you will have to pay full price for a 21 y.o promising ruckman! There isn't too many going around so the price tag might be something/ someone like a Foley....

 

[eth-dog]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Interesting article by Jon Ralph in todays HS with quotes from Bellchambers management.

I think teams like the Tigers will be throwing big bucks at Bellchambers and the oppurtunity to be first ruck.

What would be a realistic trade?

Vickery and Martin.