2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread [Part I]

[SirJimi05]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

My point is I'm far more excited by domination of football games than being able to run.

If you bothered to read the article you would know that he can do alot more than just run. Not really sure why a reference to Kane Tenace was required.

Anyway, It's a bit hard to dominate games of football consistantly when your entire midfield is one paced.

I think it is imperative that the next mid we target, is quick and can play an outside role well.

 

[hank31]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

SJ05, sounds like your talking about Trav Colyer...

 

[Kong]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Colyer's quick and can play outside
Melksham's quick and can play outside
Jetta's quick and can play outside
Zaharakis' quick and can play outside

But as I said, if the guy's as good as you make out, I'd obviously be interested.

 

[still chasing amy]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Colyer's quick and can play outside
Melksham's quick and can play outside
Jetta's quick and can play outside
Zaharakis' quick and can play outside

But as I said, if the guy's as good as you make out, I'd obviously be interested.

I'd disagree with this. He has no pace at all. Thought this was evident in Melbourne game when rather than run into 50 with 2 chasers he zig zagged back and passed backwards.

 

[Atavistic]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

I'd disagree with this. He has no pace at all. Thought this was evident in Melbourne game when rather than run into 50 with 2 chasers he zig zagged back and passed backwards.

I don't think he's quick either, but I like his foot skills and he has grunt.

 

[Kong]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

That was one incident, and if anything I thought his decision making was what let him down.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Colyer's quick and can play outside
Melksham's quick and can play outside
Jetta's quick and can play outside
Zaharakis' quick and can play outside

But as I said, if the guy's as good as you make out, I'd obviously be interested.

Pretty much agree with this. I reckon we have about enough quick outside guys.

Add Winderlich and Dempsey and we have plenty. If Hardingham and Hibberd/Browne can improve and hold down the defence then we might be able to move Dempsey to the wing.

We need players that can kick goals more than anything right now. Genuine goal kickers. Small, large, medium whatever. Someone that can complement Hurley and kick 40.

Darren Bewick would be handy also.

 

[SirJimi05]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Colyer's quick and can play outside
Melksham's quick and can play outside
Jetta's quick and can play outside
Zaharakis' quick and can play outside

But as I said, if the guy's as good as you make out, I'd obviously be interested.

So what sort of player do you think we need to add to our list?

I'd say the above list highlights our need for a genuine polished outside midfielder with good speed.

 

[Kong]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Honestly, and I wouldn't say this outside of this board , but I think we have almost everything we need on our list. It's just a matter of those players continuing to improve, to reach a level where they can all "click".

Checklist:

- Key defenders: Y
- Defensive defenders: Y
- Rebounding defenders: Y; perhaps another to cover Dempsey/release him to the middle
- Outside runners: Y; think this depends a lot on whether these guys need to play forward or not
- Inside ball winners: Y
- Key forwards: Y
- Third tall forwards: Y
- Crumbing/pressuing smaller forward: N

The last one is the big one for me. Davey's unreliable, Colyer's a possibility but is a midfielder, Zaharakis is quality but is also a midfielder, Winderlich's 27 this year and coming off an ACL, Reimers is all over the shop, Jetta's dynamite but alone isn't enough and would be more damaging on the ball if we could play him there.

I think we at minimum, need two guys that will do that for us most weeks. Plus reserves (this could even be the above listed guys like Colyer).

It's why I'd give up our 1st Rounder and Hooker for Rioli. People say he can't play full games in the midfield, but I actually think we'd be a far better side with him either way. Say he does only play up forward. He's one of the best at pressuring and crumbing, it's not even funny how much better he'd make players like Hurley look. On top of that, he'd release the likes of Zaharakis, Colyer and Jetta up the field.

I'd also like to see us invest at least another pick (and potentially a rookie pick) on this type of player.

 

[GoldenboyHird_5]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

The problem with your criteria Whomb is that you've forgotten to taken into account another category.

Players that can do a number of those roles.

All the top sides have midfielders that can play multiple roles at the same time, creating a multi-dimensional midfield that can expose either one-paced or poorly skilled midfield teams from other clubs.

Carlton have Judd and Murphy who can go both inside and outside, particularly with Murphy stepping it up this year and becoming one of the best midfielders in the league. Hawthorn have a bloke called Burgoyne who can rest up forward, as well as play his usually role of an inside midfielder that occasionally bursts out of packs like Judd.

Geelong have Kelly and Bartel who, while being inside players, have an extremely high level skill set and can play at either HB or HF. Chapman and Selwood are others who are dual-roled players.

Collingwood... well, they go without saying. Swan, Pendlebury (as seen on ANZAC Day), Thomas, Wellingham etc. all can go inside or outside, kick goals and defend.

We have one, Jobe, that is truly multi-faceted as a midfielder.

That's one of the areas where we are really lacking at the moment. The ability for our inside midfielders to go outside and deliver cleanly as well.

N.B. ant555 has stated previously that Myers has always been a thumping kick, but never a precise kick like Heppell. He's probably the closest we have to Jobe in performing multiple roles but isn't being given the opportunity, whether that's fitness related or whatever.

 

[Kong]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Zaka (HFF/mid), Jetta (FP/mid), Colyer (FP/mid), Winderlich (HFF/HBF/mid), Dempsey (HBF/mid), Browne (HBF/mid), Heppell (HBF/mid), Myers (CHB/HBF/mid), Stanton (HBF/HFF/mid), Hocking (HBF/mid), Slattery (BP/tagger), are all multi positional players.

Though the problem is most are either inconsistent, undeveloped in one area, or too important in the midfield (Stanton and Hocking).

Again I think we have have most of the pieces, but of course you can't rest on promise forever.

If I had to from highest to lowest in terms of what our list needs, I'd go:

- small forwards
- outside midfielder (ideally one that can also play inside though of course)
- running defender
- lockdown defender
- inside midfielder
- key forward
- key back
- ruckman

 

[Skeeta Olly]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

I'd put key/power forward near the top of that list. Dawes/Cloke are a great combo and I can see why we went at Cloke.

 

[SirJimi05]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Huh? That is the least of our concerns (as pointed out by Whomb).

What we are lacking is a pure outside midfielder.

I do agree that we have most bases covered bu I think it's a bit risky pinning our hopes on dual position types that may or may not make it as midfielders (the likes of Jetta and Zaka). At the moment they are hf's that can push up the ground.

We were blown away for speed on Friday night and all of the so called quick players that Whomb mentioned, were playing.

Out midfield is currently too one paced.

I'd like us to target a skillful outside midfielder that is also quick.

I agree that we should also be looking for a good crumber.

Not sure about another key forward. Lets just see how Hurley, Gumbleton, Carlisle, Steinberg go first. Don't forget we have young Joe Daniher joining the club also.

 

[Kong]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Michael Hurley was outbodying fully grown men from his very first game.

He's a monster forward, or at least will be, imo.

I think Hurley's our guy. It just means we'll need Pears, Hooker, Daniher, Myers, Carlisle to stay on the park and deliver as key defenders.

 

[Skeeta Olly]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Need one more, Gumbleton we can no longer rely on (not that he was a power forward but he was structurally our CHF and improved our fwd line). We're a bit thin after those two.

 

[Kong]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Our midfield needs also changed dramatically when Hird came along.

We were suddenly playing midfield setups of Watson, Hocking, Lonergan, Howlett.

That is, our ball winning, tough midfielders, with the pace on the outside.

The question is will he persist with that, running the risk of our midfield being one paced, or will he alter it at year's end with the benefit of a full year in charge to assess the list?

In a perfect world we'd have a player like Judd that plays inside and has pace. I think Melksham does it in stages, but nowhere near the level that we need. Myers has both, but we're yet to see him get a full run at it due to being required down back.

 

[GoldenboyHird_5]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Our midfield needs also changed dramatically when Hird came along.

We were suddenly playing midfield setups of Watson, Hocking, Lonergan, Howlett.

That is, our ball winning, tough midfielders, with the pace on the outside.

The question is will he persist with that, running the risk of our midfield being one paced, or will he alter it at year's end with the benefit of a full year in charge to assess the list?

In a perfect world we'd have a player like Judd that plays inside and has pace. I think Melksham does it in stages, but nowhere near the level that we need. Myers has both, but we're yet to see him get a full run at it due to being required down back.

That's what I'm getting at Whomb.

 

[SirJimi05]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Myers is slow.

I've based my thoughts around the game plan Hird has adopted.

I'm not gonna guess what might happen at seasons end but yeah, needs might change based on how it pans out.

 

[The Bomb]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Come Trade and Draft time, every Essendon fan wants a great midfielder, but we should not pay over the price for one, really we should just try and get the best players who will be available at the time, like Heppell and Hibberd, this is what will strengthen our team, last PSD we thought we should target a ruckman and did, Jenkins, but a few of us were disapointed we did not take Curnow at the time, now look Jenkins is crap and Curnow is good, missed oppertunity in my opinion.

If we target a midfielder, say Vince and he continues on the road he is traveling down, we may be disapointed when a player in another position like Toy for instance hits his straps, and is much better player.

 

[DVD Player]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

What is Toy exactly? If he's JUST a backman, then why would we want him?

 

[Kong]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

I think Myers is reasonably quick.

Not Dempsey quick, or even Zaharakis quick, but similar to say Ricky Dyson.

He just seems to slow down when he's down on confidence. Look at his best games when he's full of confidence (most notably the Bulldogs game in 2010) and he's got some toe.

 

[gO_bOmBeRz]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Just throwing another player out there, how about Clinton Young ? seems to be on the outer at the Hawks and has sublime foot skills.

We all saw what he could do in the GF against Geelong, and wouldn't cost too much.

 

[DVD Player]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Warming to the idea of Ryder for 17 yr old, tbh.

 

[Yoda_]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

If I had to from highest to lowest in terms of what our list needs, I'd go:

- small forwards
- outside midfielder (ideally one that can also play inside though of course)
- running defender
- lockdown defender
- inside midfielder
- key forward
- key back
- ruckman

I think we covered "running defender" well last year Whomb. We did select Hibberd, (short term) and Browne (long term) running defenders.

I like this list though, we certainly need a small forward, would you like a stay at home forward pocket like a Steven Milne? or a Collingwood/Geelong type forward that ultimately pushes through the midfield?

If the latter, I think we have this covered, a number of players are undeveloped as someone mentioned earlier, I was one who was clammering at the thought of 'cleaning our list out' last year, thank god we didnt. No Crameri, no Lonergan to say the least would of happened

I am starting to see this year as purely a development year for our list. Even the more mature guys at the start of the year were learning new roles (Winderlich > forward pocket for example), with many players missing for the past couple of weeks, I am now seeing this as a great opportunity to see the likes of Browne, Hibberd, Colyer and Melksham have sustained periods in the seniors.

Back to 'your list' Whomb.

I would say, our list needs;

1: Small Forwards
2. Key Forwards
3. Outside Midfielders
4. Lockdown Defender
5. Ruckmen
6. Key Back
7. Running Defender

 

[Kong]

Re: 2011 Official Draft/Trade Discussion Thread

Yeah you and Olly both have some merit in placing more importance on a key forward.

We are certainly going to be lighter on at the end of the year with Neagle and Williams almost certainly gone, and while Gumby will be kept on for at least 2012, he's just a bonus now.

I'm not sold on Hibberd as a running defender, just for the record.

As for your question, as you said we have enough small forwards that rotate through the midfield. I want a genuine crumbing, harrassing small forward. Somebody like Banfield, Garlett, Stokes, Rioli.