2011 Potential Draftee and Trade Watch

[Turbocat]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Both a PPF & KPB available and want to come to the Cats?

I can't remember when this type of situation would ever have of occurred , for Geelong especially , but personally , Id say it would be a case by case assessment. Rather than just look the position they play , id say they would look at the package they are bringing into the club. Quality person, someone that really wants to come to the Cats , someone that doesn't want it just for the money and versatility because quite often the position they were playing in an other side , another level of football may not transfer. Take Taylor for eg. He was a not a regular CHB in the WAFL. perhaps someone just looking for a chance to show what they could do. Think McGrath , Sanderson , etc.

But if we are talking the pure theoretical of recruitment , of getting a 23 year old Johno Brown or a 23 year old Paul Roos , Id say it would be a very difficult choice. Perhaps Roos as Ive often thought the reason we failed in the Ablett Sr era was due to our backline lacking enough quality.

IMO , if we were to grab/chase an "in the system" player , he is more than likely to be a talented kid who has struggled for a chance that may fit our requirements. Dan Talia for eg would be someone I'd be keen on. Has not got a game yet but is super mobile is now around 196cm , if we could swing that Id be wrapped. Even his brother looks promising and a similar size.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Turbo, I love Talia but I reckon he'd be hard to reach. The Blues tried to get him for Jacobs but Adelaide didn't want to deal.

But hey as you say we could draft Michael, he's been coming along nicely from what I've seen, and I'm sure the Cannons boys that we just drafted could tell us a bit more about him too.

 

[Turbocat]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Turbo, I love Talia but I reckon he'd be hard to reach. The Blues tried to get him for Jacobs but Adelaide didn't want to deal.

But hey as you say we could draft Michael, he's been coming along nicely from what I've seen, and I'm sure the Cannons boys that we just drafted could tell us a bit more about him too.

I know its not our normal style to target players , and it would only work if he was wanting to come home and he was out of contract. Picked around 13 from memory so our R1 pick might do it as with any player that is not getting played that tend to fall a bit in value. I have not really followed him over there but as an u18 , he would be absolute perfect match to what we want.

I suspect there will be a bit of wheeling & dealing this year. The second year of a compromised draft and a shallower draft at that , so there will be a bit more targeting of the seasoned kids at clubs. Add GWS to that and who knows what we might have to offer. If I'm right , I hope we have Menzel and Duncan secured.

 

[year of the cat]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

You would think that Adelaide would find it difficult to hold onto all their young KP prospects. When you add McKernan, Davis, Sellar, Tippett and Walker then they are blessed with a raft of talls. To keep them all will be a challenge. If Walker goes to GWS then it will make the task of attaining Talia all the more difficult.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

You would think that Adelaide would find it difficult to hold onto all their young KP prospects. When you add McKernan, Davis, Sellar, Tippett and Walker then they are blessed with a raft of talls. To keep them all will be a challenge. If Walker goes to GWS then it will make the task of attaining Talia all the more difficult.

Wouldn't it work the other way? Adelaide have too many quality talls to fit in the one side so the challenge is stopping them leaving for more gametime elsewhere. If Walker goes to GWS as I expect, and McKernan possibly tries to get back home, it's more likely the others would stay, including Talia.

I know its not our normal style to target players , and it would only work if he was wanting to come home and he was out of contract. Picked around 13 from memory so our R1 pick might do it as with any player that is not getting played that tend to fall a bit in value. I have not really followed him over there but as an u18 , he would be absolute perfect match to what we want.

I suspect there will be a bit of wheeling & dealing this year. The second year of a compromised draft and a shallower draft at that , so there will be a bit more targeting of the seasoned kids at clubs. Add GWS to that and who knows what we might have to offer. If I'm right , I hope we have Menzel and Duncan secured.

Same draft as Menzel Duncan et al so out of contract at the end of the year.

Kid was very close to debut until he got injured late last year, loved him as an U18 player, just a great size physically and very athletic.

Grandfather played for the Dogs I think so if he looks to come back home you would think they'd be silly not to have a big go given how much they need a key defender.

I do agree there'll be more trading by a lot of clubs this year. Problem is with GWS having PSD picks if kids want to come back specifically to Vic you aren't going to be able to get them off their clubs on the cheap. Adelaide would want at least what they paid for Talia, and given our first pick will be in the 20's and the draft is much weaker than 09, I can't see anything working unless we're willing to give up good young player(s) (i.e. of the menzel etc quality) which I wouldn't want to do, I can't see any viable deal happening.

 

[year of the cat]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Wouldn't it work the other way? Adelaide have too many quality talls to fit in the one side so the challenge is stopping them leaving for more gametime elsewhere. If Walker goes to GWS as I expect, and McKernan possibly tries to get back home, it's more likely the others would stay, including Talia.

Yes that right. More difficult for us attaining Talia, rather than Adelaide retaining him. Maybe "obtain" would have been more appropriate!!

 

[Turbocat]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/as-the-crow-flies-20110422-1drjh.html

I found this an interesting article.

Firstly the concept of dragging a kid from another state and plonking him in a sub-club sits poorly with me. Every club makes hard choices , every club has let players go and they have gone and done well somewhere else , but to give a kid 12 months or else is rather callus in my thinking. At times we probably have given some kids too long but I'd hope we have not done 12 months or else too often.

Secondly , as he is from Torquay , is he related to the Curnow on the Falcons list who is also from Torquay? George C is 189 bit taller Ed. , haven't seen him play at all but if he is related one would think he would have a reasonable chance to getting drafted , as a successful brother quite often brings attention.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Agree Turbo, I do agree most rookies really should be given 2 years (if they are working hard) and I'm glad that most of the time we do that with our rookies.

While what Craig said was probably unhelpful, the main thing the article highlighted for me is that why clubs like us can afford it have our own VFL team, because young players can feel so unsure and not a part of it when they are shunted off to other clubs to play. This is of course not Adelaide's fault but it really stood out to me.

Oh, off topic I know, but can we trade for Brandon Matera? Please (gosh that kid is promising)

 

[Turbocat]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Oh, off topic I know, but can we trade for Brandon Matera? Please (gosh that kid is promising)

Ahh .. you could replace Brandon Matera with .. David Swallow or Charlie Dixon or ZacSmith. ZS is going to be close to the best ruck in the game if the kid keeps going like that.

OK so , they have talent no surprise there , but there is no way they will be able to keep all them happy. For a start any kid that missed out today has missed on once in a life time chance , and should be more gettable .. maybe.

Hello Josh Caddy , happy up there are you? Tommy Lynch , is there really a spot for you there with so many tall's already in the sides forwardline? Peirs Flanagan , how you like to come back home? Tom Nicholls , gees there sure is a lot of guys 200 plus up there?

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Ah yes Turbo you are right, some will look to return. Although my guess is that they'll be guys like Caddy and maybe Toy, who while they are guns, are not quite the player type we need for our list. If only we could convince a good key forward or ruckman to come back here

Hey, did you see Emma Quayle's article today linking us to Jake Stringer? While I normally love Emma's work, in this case I think she's assuming too much on the basis that he spent a week with us, lots of the AIS boys train at AFL clubs. Also, the reality is GWS will want as much as they can get for the rights to the 4 17yo's, and in the cold hard reality Jake's therefore not a good fit because his currency went down the minute he broke his leg. With how much we'd have to give up to get into the mini draft, if we did go into it I reckon it'd be to pick someone else up, not Jake (I wonder if there's another good 17 yo ruckman we can get).

I also don't think we'll give up the compo pick because it's very valuable because the 2012 draft is reportedly quite strong. If anything I think we might give up some of our picks from this year's draft (weaker) plus any senior players who want to go (maybe guys who are not as secure getting games as they used to be) to try and get in the mini draft.

 

[Turbocat]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Pure , the range of variations, the multitude of manipulations one would have to be a machiavellian demigod to really be on top of it.

Stringer is supposed to be top of the line. Whether we would want to sell the farm for him is for others to judge. Broken legs seem bad but Kelly had one , even Curnow last year shows that its possible to return for very little loss.
A kid thats 191 at 16 , and has been considered a top 10 lock, would be very tempting.

As far as GC go's I'd make it our personal business to at least get one kid. Its only fair to welcome them to the big league. Whether or not its exactly what we are after , they have an abundance of talent and most of them would be a good fit at any club. Obviously a Zac Smith would be ideal , but as long as he is quality I'd be happy to lighten their talent pool for the absolute min reimbursement.

"Hello , remember us"

 

[thejester]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Disappointing result in the VFL but interesting from a draft perspective. Only really caught the last quarter but Geelong's two majors came in the first five minutes - one each to Brown and Vardy, with Vardy having an assist on Brown's, and both the result of Cowan winning the clearance in the center and getting the quick kick forward. That 09 draft is already looking like a beauty, three of them already playing excellent seniors and the other two forging ahead in the VFL.

That said I suspect the club may want an inside midfielder as it's No 1 priority going into the draft. I know they were missing players but if Cowan's winning the clearances somethings NQR.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

I think we'll have an open mind depending on who falls jester, but I do see some good talls in this year's crop (I rate the talls this year more than I did last year) so I would think that's how we'll go if it's 50-50.

I don't know whether an inside mid will be the first priority, ultimately that will depend largely on whether they consider any of Duncan, Menz, Poodle, Bundy, Guthrie and/or Billie to be full time midfielders (they're so versatile all of them so only club insiders would know where they plan for them to end up), but if they plan to play them in other positions, and with Hogan stalling a bit (well seemingly so anyway) I suppose it's possible.

I'd definitely like to see us grab another key defender though, because it's a real area of weakness for us, and maybe another ruck depending on what their plans are (i.e. how much they rate) Dawson and West. To me those would be the more critical priorities this year.

 

[Turbocat]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Watching Jack Riewoldt last night , is there a more exciting player in the AFL? My bias perhaps but I like him much more than Franklin. More pack marks and I admire the way he has straighten up his kick to be a reliable convertor.
Probably a bit of the top , but his leap marking reminds me of GAS.

Jack's a turnstyle turner and I'd love to find a kid with that type ability and add him to our list.

 

[RaptorRoj]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

I've been told to keep an eye on Boseley of the Falcons. Ready made full back.

 

[Turbocat]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

I've been told to keep an eye on Boseley of the Falcons. Ready made full back.

South Barwon kid , I think. One would think Amos would know about him. Nice size at 194 but athleticism is probably more important now.

 

[muttonchops]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Watching Jack Riewoldt last night , is there a more exciting player in the AFL? My bias perhaps but I like him much more than Franklin. More pack marks and I admire the way he has straighten up his kick to be a reliable convertor.
Probably a bit of the top , but his leap marking reminds me of GAS.

Jack's a turnstyle turner and I'd love to find a kid with that type ability and add him to our list.

We could have had Jack Darling maybe not the freakish sort of ability as a Reiwoldt but a gun forward all the same. Still wish we would have picked him.

 

[Turbocat]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

We could have had Jack Darling maybe not the freakish sort of ability as a Reiwoldt but a gun forward all the same. Still wish we would have picked him.

I loved getting Guthrie and he probably will be a gun player for us but Darling could be anything. Thats is perhaps the issue , he is talented , everyone knew he was talented but was he going to become another player that takes a lot of maintenance. From that point of view , we have built our list & club by staying away from certain types why change now.

 

[Pivo]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

A rumour going around that Jackson Trengove of PA wants to move back to Victoria. He would be a nice fit as a young, mobile, big bodied defender.

Shame we didn't nab him when we had the chance.

 

[Turbocat]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Question for us to ponder ;

GWS have access to four additional 17-year-old selections.These players, born from January-April 1994, must all be traded during either the 2011 or 2012 trading periods.

Given the masterful foresight and the depth of knowledge that drafting staff have these days , these picks have the potential , no maybe even more than that , a high probability that they will deliver to the sides that acquire them a kid worthy of being a top 4 pick.

We all know that early doesn't equate to a guaranteed champion , and we know its not the only way to gather a champion but looking at the quality that usually is gathered from picks this early , we would be silly , imo , not explore getting one of these picks

So the question - What are we willing to give up to get one of these picks? and another , What will it take to get a deal done?

 

[AM]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Question for us to ponder ;

GWS have access to four additional 17-year-old selections.These players, born from January-April 1994, must all be traded during either the 2011 or 2012 trading periods.

Given the masterful foresight and the depth of knowledge that drafting staff have these days , these picks have the potential , no maybe even more than that , a high probability that they will deliver to the sides that acquire them a kid worthy of being a top 4 pick.

We all know that early doesn't equate to a guaranteed champion , and we know its not the only way to gather a champion but looking at the quality that usually is gathered from picks this early , we would be silly , imo , not explore getting one of these picks

So the question - What are we willing to give up to get one of these picks? and another , What will it take to get a deal done?

Appreciate it's a hypothetical Turbo and I'll be interested in reading the suggestions.

However, from a purely practical point of view, if Gubby Allen is true to his word and GWS follow the GC recruiting template to the letter offering draft picks is non negotiable.

 

[year of the cat]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Shame we didn't nab him when we had the chance.

Nice, should have known that wouldn't have got past you

 

[Turbocat]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Appreciate it's a hypothetical Turbo and I'll be interested in reading the suggestions.

However, from a purely practical point of view, if Gubby Allen is true to his word and GWS follow the GC recruiting template to the letter offering draft picks is non negotiable.

Could you clarify that for us Ammo. I know we traded a pick for a pick , but Brisbane certainly traded Brennan for an upgrade and for some picks. So deals of player for picks where done.

Like all of us , I have no set idea what GWS would want or would see as a fair trade for these picks , but one difference that these picks have compared to normal picks are they must be traded or lost.

I doubt they will trade the picks for a couple blankets and some beads , metaphorically speaking so Id say players with only a year two left would of the list , certainly not without a sweetener. I'd love to say we could offer a borderline player or two but having a look at most of the other borderlines that gone elsewhere , they are still borderlines. If it was me , I would want a best 22 lock (min.1) plus a R1 pick and then see what all the clubs offer.

For us the player who fits the right age , is a best 22 would be Stokes. We could negotiate on a supplemental player/pick but thats where I'd start. I say Stokes because of age , experience and with the right offer he may decide to have a fresh start.

 

[thejester]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

My understanding was that the whole point of the initiative was to force GWS to trade for mature players, but I'm not sure if that's been codified so to speak.

 

[AM]

Re: Potential Draftee & Trade Watch - 2011

Could you clarify that for us Ammo. I know we traded a pick for a pick , but Brisbane certainly traded Brennan for an upgrade and for some picks. So deals of player for picks where done.

Like all of us , I have no set idea what GWS would want or would see as a fair trade for these picks , but one difference that these picks have compared to normal picks are they must be traded or lost.

I doubt they will trade the picks for a couple blankets and some beads , metaphorically speaking so Id say players with only a year two left would of the list , certainly not without a sweetener. I'd love to say we could offer a borderline player or two but having a look at most of the other borderlines that gone elsewhere , they are still borderlines. If it was me , I would want a best 22 lock (min.1) plus a R1 pick and then see what all the clubs offer.

For us the player who fits the right age , is a best 22 would be Stokes. We could negotiate on a supplemental player/pick but thats where I'd start. I say Stokes because of age , experience and with the right offer he may decide to have a fresh start.

I appreciate the AFL introduced compensation picks for any club that loses a player and these are tradeable

However, I thought the tenor of your question was whether our club would initiate discussions by offering a player or players in exchange for one the GWS 8 priority draft picks and which player/players we would be prepared to give up to acquire one or more those picks.

My understanding is that the GC did not trade any of those picks and from the comments of Gubby Allen GWS intend following the template of the GC and that everyone of those early 8 picks is off limits. The same applies to their 8 rookie picks.

I must confess I've only taken a passing interest in the draft concessions given to the GC and GWS.