2012 draft

[Riskingheadandshin]

ignoring character it would be good if we get a Lenny Hayes type footballer, but I have question marks Vlas is that, will be good, can't see the star quality though

Well that was example/point I was trying to make to totti.
I doubt many thought Hayes would get to the level he has before he was recruited. Pick 11, averaged 11, 16 16 possies in his first 3 years.
What I was trying to say was that a good player with the right attributes has the best chance of making it. Yet you're writing him off from reaching that level from what?? A highlights clip, maybe seeing him a couple of times and a bit of draft talk?

 

[Mr Magic]

Well that was example/point I was trying to make to totti.
I doubt many thought Hayes would get to the level he has before he was recruited. Pick 11, averaged 11, 16 16 possies in his first 3 years.
What I was trying to say was that a good player with the right attributes has the best chance of making it. Yet you're writing him off from reaching that level from what?? A highlights clip, maybe seeing him a couple of times and a bit of draft talk?

I am not sure he can stand on his feet like Hayes etc.. and is as strong through the core in group pressure. He might be an inside mid but no reason to think he can do what Hayes does just because of desire. His body has to enable him to do it with the match ups and all. As I said before he moves a bit like Johnson of the pies for me.

what is he like shrugging, side stepping, breaking tackles etc.. in a congested situation?? Not sure you can tell in under 18 footy. In some ways some inside mids are risky propositions

 

[_RT_]

As did his entire champs, we're he dominated the kids he'll be up against in the draft.

At AFL he won't be going up against those kids, he will be going up against the likes of Cox, Sandilands, Nic Nat, Mumford and co. Can't see him being able to dominate them anytime soon.

 

[purrrrrrrrrrfect]

Conca, Ellis & now Vlastuin... It's not hard to see Dimma has his marks all over these selections

 

[UpTheGuts]

Inside Footy dude says a chance we may take Jaksch. Just a whisper

But I wouldn't buy that

 

[Mr Magic]

Inside Footy dude says a chance we may take Jaksch. Just a whisper

But I wouldn't buy that

Don't mind him and phantom footy commentators said genuine swinger who can play forward and be effective as well as back, good kick for goal too apparently, might be the CHF we are looking for and we can swing him to push Griff forward at times etc..

Tiger supporter

 

[theflea]

In 1998 we traded pick 8 for Craig Biddiscombe.

Pick 8 - Jude Bolton.

We can't go too bad!

ok ok ok ok just dont hurt me anymore!!!

 

[theflea]

I'm not a Vlastuin hater nor would i not support the clubs decision, but its things you don't see or know that concern me. Doesn't appear to have speed or a tank and without combine results I have question marks over being a top 10 pick. Seems to be straight ahead sort of player, haven't seen elite evasion skills. Haven't observed him kicking any goals. Contrast Lonergan who answers many of these questions.

so you think the club hasnt done its due diligence? remember they watch these guys for effectively 3 years.

 

[Harmichael]

At AFL he won't be going up against those kids, he will be going up against the likes of Cox, Sandilands, Nic Nat, Mumford and co. Can't see him being able to dominate them anytime soon.

It's only those kids that will be available in the draft. Cox, Sandilands & Natanui won't be.

He's also a forward btw, not just a ruckman.

Whether or not he can dominate those blokes straight away is moot anyway, don't need the kids to be playing straight away like we have over the last three years. Rebuilding phase is over we shouldn't still be relying on draft picks to come in straight away and have an impact. If that's the case then get someone like Jacobs with 32/34 and pick up Sam Lonergan as a DFA. If we rookie Toy (hope not but anyway....) then he'll probably be upgraded. We've already added Knights who's a mid as much as he is anything. We could well be adding Tyson in 2014.

As much as I'd love them to push out the likes of Jackson - what makes you so certain someone like Vlastuin or Lonergan will be playing straight away anyway?

 

[_RT_]

It's only those kids that will be available in the draft. Cox, Sandilands & Natanui won't be.

He's also a forward btw, not just a ruckman.

Whether or not he can dominate those blokes straight away is moot anyway, don't need the kids to be playing straight away like we have over the last three years. Rebuilding phase is over we shouldn't still be relying on draft picks to come in straight away and have an impact. If that's the case then get someone like Jacobs with 32/34 and pick up Sam Lonergan as a DFA. If we rookie Toy (hope not but anyway....) then he'll probably be upgraded. We've already added Knights who's a mid as much as he is anything. We could well be adding Tyson in 2014.

As much as I'd love them to push out the likes of Jackson - what makes you so certain someone like Vlastuin or Lonergan will be playing straight away anyway?

Some forward, in 13 combined games at SANFL level he kicked 1.2 for the year.

 

[Harmichael]

Some forward, in 13 combined games at SANFL level he kicked 1.2 for the year.

That's all you could gleen from that?

10 year stars > quick fix foot soldiers.

Are you just saying all this because you're convinced we'll take Vlastuin? No offence but I've noticed -or rather, it's my impression- you tend to just repeat the official club line and unquestioningly, rigidly back whatever they do - how will you spin it if we do take Grundy? Almost makes me want him even more just to see that trick.

 

[_RT_]

For those concerned about taking Vlastuin and just what he brings to the table.

TAC Stats:
10 games
112 kicks(61% efficiency) 70 handballs(63% efficiency) 44 marks 6CM 65 tackles 50 handball receives
Averages: 11.2 kicks 7 handballs 18.2 disposals 61% efficiency 4.4 marks 6.5 tackles 5 handball receives.

Handy numbers for someone who played HBF most of the year and was carrying an injury as well.
His 2 best games for the year were a 30 disposal 8 marks 4 tackles 1.2 game against Geelong and a 29 disposal 9 marks 12 tackles 2 goal effort against Gippsland. Reckon that puts to rest that he has no star factor.

 

[Heisenberg_]

For those concerned about taking Vlastuin and just what he brings to the table.

TAC Stats:
10 games
112 kicks(61% efficiency) 70 handballs(63% efficiency) 44 marks 6CM 65 tackles 50 handball receives
Averages: 11.2 kicks 7 handballs 18.2 disposals 61% efficiency 4.4 marks 6.5 tackles 5 handball receives.

Handy numbers for someone who played HBF most of the year and was carrying an injury as well.
His 2 best games for the year were a 30 disposal 8 marks 4 tackles 1.2 game against Geelong and a 29 disposal 9 marks 12 tackles 2 goal effort against Gippsland. Reckon that puts to rest that he has no star factor.

But his 3 minute highlight package on youtube isn't that impressive

 

[Mr Magic]

For those concerned about taking Vlastuin and just what he brings to the table.

TAC Stats:
10 games
112 kicks(61% efficiency) 70 handballs(63% efficiency) 44 marks 6CM 65 tackles 50 handball receives
Averages: 11.2 kicks 7 handballs 18.2 disposals 61% efficiency 4.4 marks 6.5 tackles 5 handball receives.

Handy numbers for someone who played HBF most of the year and was carrying an injury as well.
His 2 best games for the year were a 30 disposal 8 marks 4 tackles 1.2 game against Geelong and a 29 disposal 9 marks 12 tackles 2 goal effort against Gippsland. Reckon that puts to rest that he has no star factor.

not really because more space coming out from the backline, same reason backs get a lot of stats

 

[Toadvine]

For those concerned about taking Vlastuin and just what he brings to the table.

TAC Stats:
10 games
112 kicks(61% efficiency) 70 handballs(63% efficiency) 44 marks 6CM 65 tackles 50 handball receives
Averages: 11.2 kicks 7 handballs 18.2 disposals 61% efficiency 4.4 marks 6.5 tackles 5 handball receives.

Handy numbers for someone who played HBF most of the year and was carrying an injury as well.
His 2 best games for the year were a 30 disposal 8 marks 4 tackles 1.2 game against Geelong and a 29 disposal 9 marks 12 tackles 2 goal effort against Gippsland. Reckon that puts to rest that he has no star factor.

I get the point your making with Vlastuin being a star and I agree that he is capable of that.
But I think it's unfair for you to criticize Grundy's stats and goal kicking at SANFL level and then talk up V's stats in an U18 TAC cup game.

 

[_RT_]

That's all you could gleen from that?

10 year stars > quick fix foot soldiers.

Are you just saying all this because you're convinced we'll take Vlastuin? No offence but I've noticed -or rather, it's my impression- you tend to just repeat the official club line and unquestioningly, rigidly back whatever they do - how will you spin it if we do take Grundy? Almost makes me want him even more just to see that trick.

Yes because that was the biggest thing that stood out. You claimed that Grundy is also a forward, well sorry his stats show that isn't exactly the case. In 13 games his total was 1.2, and he would have been playing against opponents who are much closer to his size than the opponents he would have gone up against in the Championships.

As for just repeating what the club says, it may seem like that, but I have been on Wines and then the Vlastuin bandwagons long before we were linked to him/them. Why, because its the type of player that I feel is our biggest need in the drafts, in fact all my choices through out the discussion on the draft have revolved around adding more midfield depth with either inside ball winners or outside runners.

As I've said previously I don't see a massive need for Grundy, either now or in the short to mid term future, does that mean I don't think he is a good player, no it doesn't I think he'll be a very good player down the track, just not with us. However if we pick him up I won't be disappointed like some here seemingly will be if we get Vlastuin, I'll simply back the club like I always have and look forward to seeing how the kid develops.

 

[cairo tiger]

Get grundy. get menzel. get Jacksh.

need x factor.

 

[_RT_]

I get the point your making with Vlastuin being a star and I agree that he is capable of that.
But I think it's unfair for you to criticize Grundy's stats and goal kicking at SANFL level and then talk up V's stats in an U18 TAC cup game.

I only criticised the claim that he was a forward as well as his stats don't show that to be the case, well not at SANFL reserves/seniors level.

 

[Wacky Tiger]

I only criticised the claim that he was a forward as well as his stats don't show that to be the case, well not at SANFL reserves/seniors level.

So in Grundy's 2 under 18 games last year he kicked 5 goals total. 4 goals best afield one match and one in the losing GF side.

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Get grundy. get menzel. get Jacksh.

need x factor.

Grundy YES
Menzel YES
Jacksh NO

For me anyways. Elton and Griffiths can do the same as Jacksh

 

[_RT_]

So in Grundy's 2 under 18 games last year he kicked 5 goals total. 4 goals best afield one match and one in the losing GF side.

Kind of backs up my point, against undersized kids is dominant, against mature bodied opponents seems to struggle.

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

Get grundy. get menzel. get Jacksh.

need x factor.

WTF is X factor? Can you explain please?

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Kind of backs up my point, against undersized kids is dominant, against mature bodied opponents seems to struggle.

Yeah although only having played footy for 2-3 years I'd say reaching league footy level plus AA Under 18 ruckman twice is a fantastic achievement and can only see him getting better.

 

[UpTheGuts]

Kind of backs up my point, against undersized kids is dominant, against mature bodied opponents seems to struggle.

But Vlastuin is a very mature body too. Hard to see him changing his body type. Playing against kids as yet not fully developed

 

[Harmichael]

Yes because that was the biggest thing that stood out. You claimed that Grundy is also a forward, well sorry his stats show that isn't exactly the case. In 13 games his total was 1.2, and he would have been playing against opponents who are much closer to his size than the opponents he would have gone up against in the Championships.

As for just repeating what the club says, it may seem like that, but I have been on Wines and then the Vlastuin bandwagons long before we were linked to him/them. Why, because its the type of player that I feel is our biggest need in the drafts, in fact all my choices through out the discussion on the draft have revolved around adding more midfield depth with either inside ball winners or outside runners.

As I've said previously I don't see a massive need for Grundy, either now or in the short to mid term future, does that mean I don't think he is a good player, no it doesn't I think he'll be a very good player down the track, just not with us. However if we pick him up I won't be disappointed like some here seemingly will be if we get Vlastuin, I'll simply back the club like I always have and look forward to seeing how the kid develops.

Fair enough, didn't mean to get personal, was just curious.

Best available trumps need everytime in the first round for me.

FWIW, I will only be annoyed if we take Vlastuin - or anyone else for that matter(even Menzel as I feel he knees will probably dog him for most of his career) - at Grundy's expense.

There are others in the mix I feel are better than Vlastuin but not to the point that I'd be annoyed if we overlooked them for him - IMO you could pretty much throw a blanket over most of them.

The only players I'd probably be annoyed about taking at 9 that have been mentioned, regardless of Grundy are Jacksh(slightly annoyed), Lonergan (a bit peeved) and Corr (absolutely livid). IMO those three players to me would constitute varying degrees of over reaching.

Either way, I think Grundy will be gone by our pick and you & others will get their wish.