2013 Team

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POBT said:
Based on what Grim?
Click to expand...

Based on:

a) him having the talent to move rapidly up the pecking order;
b) him having an uninterupted (AFAIK) pre-season; and
b) the tendency in footy for ironic swings and roundabouts.

But as you mentioned elsewhere it's incredibly hard to get a read on where he sits in the grand scheme of things.
 
Grimreepah said:
Based on:

a) him having the talent to move rapidly up the pecking order;
b) him having an uninterupted (AFAIK) pre-season; and
b) the tendency in footy for ironic swings and roundabouts.

But as you mentioned elsewhere it's incredibly hard to get a read on where he sits in the grand scheme of things.
Click to expand...

I guess I was hoping for a "Karnezis is tearing up the track" type training report to support an optimistic view.

My feel is that half forward flank roles are quite competitive with Bewick, Black, Cornelius, Zorko, Green, McGrath, Polec all potentially thereabouts. Karnezis is a different type to those guys but you can't fit them all in.

In that list you've got:

- 3 locks for round 1 (Black, Zorko and McGrath - IMO and fitness pending)
- someone with just as much talent (Polec - albeit with a disrupted preparation and the ability to play true wing/onball)
- 2 guys who finished 2012 well (Bewick and Green) and
- Cornelius who is probably just as much of a wildcard.

Karnezis needs to jump over those guys for a spot. You'd like him to be a standout on the training track, given the competition he faces.

I'd like him in our best 22 because of what he potentially offers. But I think there are other (less talented) guys ahead of him for a spot.

I do wonder if they are taking a tough love approach with him.
 

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I don't think Polec will play Round 1 imo. Don't think he'll have the form or fitness. Lester should be a lock for any team though.

My team:
B: McGrath Merrett Patfull
HB: Adcock Maguire Golby
C: Hanley Black Rich
HF: Zorko Lisle Rockliff
F: Green Brown Bewick
Foll: Leuenberger Moloney Redden
I/C: Lester Polkinghorne Beams Raines
 
POBT said:
I guess I was hoping for a "Karnezis is tearing up the track" type training report to support an optimistic view.

My feel is that half forward flank roles are quite competitive with Bewick, Black, Cornelius, Zorko, Green, McGrath, Polec all potentially thereabouts. Karnezis is a different type to those guys but you can't fit them all in.

In that list you've got:

- 3 locks for round 1 (Black, Zorko and McGrath - IMO and fitness pending)
- someone with just as much talent (Polec - albeit with a disrupted preparation and the ability to play true wing/onball)
- 2 guys who finished 2012 well (Bewick and Green) and
- Cornelius who is probably just as much of a wildcard.

Karnezis needs to jump over those guys for a spot. You'd like him to be a standout on the training track, given the competition he faces.

I'd like him in our best 22 because of what he potentially offers. But I think there are other (less talented) guys ahead of him for a spot.

I do wonder if they are taking a tough love approach with him.
Click to expand...

Zorko - certain starter
Black - injured doubtful for round 1.
McGrath - likely to start round 1 but I would not say he is a certainty. Never been a great trainer and Voss has enough talent to get by without him if he wanted to make him earn his spot. The flexibility to play forward or back helps him.
Polec - interrupted preseason, shown only very small glimpses. Has to come through the ressies I think.
Green - earned his spot, had a very good preseason, upped his engine, can win clearance ball, one of the few guys who do well as a sub. Not a long way away from Zorko as a sure starter for round 1.
Bewick - been training well and showed very good ability to play the role last year. I think he deserves to hold his spot.
Cornelius - I agree the wildcard. Unlike those mentioned above he (like Karnezis) is a specialist forward. If it clicks for him he plays because he will kick goals and bags of them whereas most of the others here will not.

Guys you didn't mention who I also see lining up for one of those non-KP forward spots:

Polkinghorne - I see Moloney taking his midfield spot so it is forward or bust for him. I think he is outside the 22 now and plays plenty of ressies this year.
Staker - will play a utility role and likely that Voss picks him on the bench if he is fit enough.
Lester - Voss loves the kid and he picks him every chance he gets. Played some time up forward last year and if there is not a spot down back I could see him being given a run up forward.
Crisp - played as a defensive forward. Another who Voss seems to really rate. FM he won the time trial at the start of the year which is a major step up for him with his running. Good smokey chance.
Banfield - Voss loves his pace up forward and if he works out how to pick the ball up without fumbling he will be right back in the mix.
Mayes - as talented as anyone on our team and is a specialist forward. Highly rated by Voss and he will play a lot this year even though he is a rookie.

So in summary lots of competition for the spot. For the record I have Karnezis in the side for round 1. His running has improved a great deal since last year and he has the kind of talent we need in the side to take the next step. It is time to get games into him and I am sure the coaching staff realise that.
 
Quigley said:
His running has improved a great deal since last year
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Has it? I know he played midfield at NEAFL level but you can dominate at that level without being a good runner - eg Albie Proud. The club has been a bit quiet on Karnezis which IMO hints at one of two things: (i) he is struggling again to compete with the fitness side of things; or (ii) he's going OK but they are giving him a bit of tough love. It could also be that the merry-go-round of off-season articles just hasn't stopped on his name yet!

It is time to get games into him and I am sure the coaching staff realise that.
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Yes but the problem is that we could say the same about most of the young guys you listed above. They all will benefit from increased game time at senior level. Sure, Karnezis has that bit of magic that is lacking from others which will give him a slight leg up but the workrate of a Bewick or even Banfield might actually be more beneficial to the side.

Put it this way - as much as I'd like to see him in the side, 2012 form and training reports have him outside my round 1 side. Believing he is a starter for round 1 would be a bit like backing a talented horse at good odds, despite an ordinary form line. Good reward for your investment if he comes up but you are banking on class overcoming form.

But, just like a talented galloper, it would only take 1 impressive trial for the money to flow in for him! :D
 
POBT said:
The club has been a bit quiet on Karnezis which IMO hints at one of two things: (i) he is struggling again to compete with the fitness side of things; or (ii) he's going OK but they are giving him a bit of tough love. It could also be that the merry-go-round of off-season articles just hasn't stopped on his name yet!
Click to expand...

Last year there was a fair bit of hype around him - he did a lot of media work, etc. Regardless of how he's going this year, I always expected his build up to be very low key. Take the pressure right off, and let him worry about his game, rather than the weight of public expectation.
 
Quigley said:
McGrath - likely to start round 1 but I would not say he is a certainty. Never been a great trainer and Voss has enough talent to get by without him if he wanted to make him earn his spot. The flexibility to play forward or back helps him.
Click to expand...
Yeah very much agree.

In 2009 form he would be an automatic in but for me that has been his only ever consistent season. Outside of that his worst is just way too far away from his best.

I'd be more than happy for him to really step it up, but otherwise the direction the team is going I don't think a couple of really good games a year from an older player is going to be good enough.
 
POBT said:
Has it? I know he played midfield at NEAFL level but you can dominate at that level without being a good runner - eg Albie Proud. The club has been a bit quiet on Karnezis which IMO hints at one of two things: (i) he is struggling again to compete with the fitness side of things; or (ii) he's going OK but they are giving him a bit of tough love. It could also be that the merry-go-round of off-season articles just hasn't stopped on his name yet!
Click to expand...

First up I haven't seen the trainings first hand so largely I am going by the vision that we are getting and admittedly that can cause a false impression. Last preseason he had bulked up quite a bit and was lagging out the back. This year he is at the front of a lot of the groups and is certainly not out the back like he was. A second half of the year playing through the midfield and a full preseason looks to me to be seeing his running go up a level on where it was.

FWIW the guy who from the vision looks to be leading the way is Golby. He is always at the front particularly in the repeat sprint work and really looks to be putting in. I have high hopes for him this year.
 
Agree with Quigley's observation about Golby leading the way at training, as best one can tell from the brief training videos we have seen. Others who have attended training may have a different view though.

I also agree that Karnezis is an important unknown for us this year, as are Lisle, Martin and Ace, in large part because of the following.

The stats from last year say that, despite all the hype about the modern game being so different, nothing has really changed in terms of the recipe for success. The best indicators of success last year were goals scored, goal assists and marks inside 50. In the first two of these, goals and goal assists, 7 of the top 8 teams on ladder position were ranked in the top 8 in each category and the other team in each case was St kilda which finished the season 9th. For marks inside 50, 6 of the top 8 teams on the ladder were ranked in the top 8, and the other two ranked teams were St Kilda and Carlton who finished 9th and 10th.

By comparison, we were ranked 13th in goals, goal assists and marks inside 50 and finished 13th on the ladder.

The team that best illustrates the importance of these measures to me is Richmond. They were ranked very high on a number of measures that some in the media tell us are recipes for success such as, disposals (1st), effective disposals (1st), contested possessions (4th), uncontested possessions (1st), marks (2nd), contested marks (5th), inside 50 entries (4th) and clearances (6th). They were also low in clangers (14th) (we were 2nd - not good) and rebound 50's (14th) (we were 3rd - also not good) which also puts them up with the top teams. But they finished 12th on the ladder. So what went wrong?

Well, based on the above stats, it could be because they ranked 12th in goals, 10th in goal assists and 11th in marks inside 50. They were also highly ranked in handballs (1st) which is not a good indicator of success based on last years' stats.

So for mine, if we are to win more than 10 matches next year we will need someone to score goals and take marks inside 50 and hence some of the aforementioned or possibly all of them will need to stand up (in addition to Browny and the small forwards of course). It is also an argument for getting Mayes into the team and any of the other young guns for that matter who show an eye for a goal.
 
RangaInTeal said:
Paperone close to the 25?
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He's had a good preseason but you'd have to say no at this point - he'd be behind any and all of Lisle, Martin and Cornelius initially in the race to act as Brown's sidekick.
 
dlanod said:
He's had a good preseason but you'd have to say no at this point - he'd be behind any and all of Lisle, Martin and Cornelius initially in the race to act as Brown's sidekick.
Click to expand...
As Browns sidekick? What about on a Wing, I thought the lad was drafted as a 6'2 wingman?
 

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RangaInTeal said:
As Browns sidekick? What about on a Wing, I thought the lad was drafted as a 6'2 wingman?
Click to expand...

The word from the club is a high-running forward, the kind of CHF role that Brown used to fill.
 
G'day all, i have taken some time out of my somewhat boring life and written up what i believe we really need from our playing group to make finals next year. Please take the time to read it and let me know what you think. Cheers!



Players who were at their all time best and we need to continue as is:

Patfull, Adcock, Merret, Raines ( only I'm hoping Raines becomes a little more offensive but when it comes to defence he is one of our stronger players, bar the amount of free kicks he gives away...)

We require a minimum of three of these players.
Prediction all 3 Patfull, Adcock, Merret ( Though I believe winning the b&f will push Patfull that little bit more to become the best backman in the comp)



Players who dropped off in 2012 whether it be due to form, injury or struggling mentally for whatever reason, these are the players we need to recapture their best form:

Moloney, McGrath, Martin, Maguire, Staker, Brown ( I believe brown had an ok season but with a much better preseason this year should do a little better) , Leuenberger

We require a minimum of 3 players or even two if those players are Brown and Leue and the rest are performing just better than previous seasons form. Bar Leue, he MUST lift for us to be a real strength.
Predicting 2 Leue, Moloney. Possibly Staker but I fear the extended lay off and his current age have gotten the better of him.



Players with potential to become next early days elite players in there respected position eg. Zorko in 2012, Redden in 2011, Rich 2011, Hanley 2012:

Polec, Beams, Golby
Predicting 1 Beams

We require a minimum of 2 of these players

Players entering there 3rd, 4th or 5th year and must lift and really take the next step in there development:

Karnezis, Polkinghorne, Cornelius, Banfield, O'brien, Lisle and to some extent Bewick and McKeever. Although mcKeever doesnt play in a position we really lack in or in great need of.

We require a minimum of 3 of these players.
Predicting 2 Karnezis, Polkinghorne



Players in there 2nd and 3rd year who we require more from. Not due to there form but more due to the skills, agility or speed that they possess and the way they can really enhance the dynamics of our team:

Green, Crisp, Harwood, Lester, Longer, Yeo.

We require a minimum of 2 of these players.
Predicting 3 Yeo, Crisp, Green



Players in there 1st year and 2nd year ( for those who are yet to play a game) who we need to get as much as 6-7 games under their belt who can enhance our team in 2014 and forward

Mayes, Paparone, Docherty, Bartlett

We require a minimum of 2 of these players. Most preferably Docherty, Paparone and/or Mayes.
Predicting 2 Doch, Mayes



Last but DEFINITELY not least id players who have the potential to become the NEXT BIG THING in the afl eg. The next Sam Mitchell, Stevie Johnson, Chris Judd. ( Remember these are just examples. If they do become the next A grade player they will forge there own identity and be special in their own way)
Rich Redden Rockliff Zorko Hanley
We require a minimum of 1 of these players
Predicting 2 ( Fingers crossed). Those 2 should be Redden and Rrrrrr.... Drum roll... ... ... Rich. Yes I believe Rockliff will not become a premium elite player just yet but have high hopes for him in 2014.



Hope everyone enjoys the read and please pass on your opinion/criticism all is welcome and would be appreciated.
 
HPLion said:
This selection of the Reserves highlights depth

Wearden McKeever McGrath​
Close Clarke Lester​
Paparone Yeo Crisp​
Mayes Michael Polkinghorne​
Banfield Martin Cornelius​

Ruck Longer Harwood Karnezis​
Interchange Newell Wrigley Bartlett​
Emergency O’Brien​
​
Without being arrogant I feel sorry for the NEAFL team meeting this lot first up.​
Click to expand...
It's not arrogant but sadly because of the cap on listed players they won't have to. Which highlights the issue when we have a full list - getting everyone a game in our ones and twos. The consolation is that when we can't it means we don't have many injuries.
 
Matt_BL said:
I don't think Polec will play Round 1 imo. Don't think he'll have the form or fitness. Lester should be a lock for any team though.

My team:
B: McGrath Merrett Patfull
HB: Adcock Maguire Golby
C: Hanley Black Rich
HF: Zorko Lisle Rockliff
F: Green Brown Bewick
Foll: Leuenberger Moloney Redden
I/C: Lester Polkinghorne Beams Raines
Click to expand...
I love your side pretty much what I think the team in round one will look like. I'd just swapped Black and Rockliff can see Black play more as a forward this year. And have Patfull as a HBF to run on guys like Riewoldt and Franklin.
I also added Mayes to replace Ploks even tho I really like the guy we already have the Pressure forwards in Green and Zorko think Mayes adds more to the side that ploks does.
MY TEAM
B; McGrath Merrett Golby
HB; Adcock Maguire Patfull
C; Rich Rockliff Hanley
HF; Black Brown Zorko
F; Green Lisle Bewick
Foll; Leuenberger Moloney Redden
I/C Lester Beams Raines Sub; Mayes
 
Exciting with the depth we seem to be accumulating, the team is getting far tricker to pick.
Reserves flag looking good again this year you would think.

Ladder Prediction 2013: Between 7th-10th (depending largely on....well...everything)

Although naturally I hope to pull off the impossible every year (even when barracking for the Roys) I think we are realistically looking at 2015 until we could give it a serious shake

Ideally you would hope we could:
- sneak in to the 8 this year,and be better for the experience
- push hard for top 4 and taste some good finals success 2014
- and just swing past and pick up the silverware in 2015 ;)

Round 1 Team

B: Harwood Merrett Patfull
HB: Adcock Maguire Golby
C: Hanley Rich Rockliff
HF: Black Brown Zorko
F: McGrath Martin Green
Foll: Leuy* Redden Moloney
I/C Raines Bewick Beams Sub; Yeo

* (Likely to see them being very careful with him and spending a lot of time at FF with Martin playing quite a lot of Ruck for the first few rounds. If Martin hasn't made an impression by Round 3 you would think Lisle will then get a crack)

Players that I think/hope will come on and push right into contention: Karnezis,Polec,Docherty,Lester,Mayes,Bartlett, Staker,Lisle, Banfield
 
Melbourne Lion said:
Exciting with the depth we seem to be accumulating, the team is getting far tricker to pick.
Reserves flag looking good again this year you would think.

Ladder Prediction 2013: Between 7th-10th (depending largely on....well...everything)

Although naturally I hope to pull off the impossible every year (even when barracking for the Roys) I think we are realistically looking at 2015 until we could give it a serious shake

Ideally you would hope we could:
- sneak in to the 8 this year,and be better for the experience
- push hard for top 4 and taste some good finals success 2014
- and just swing past and pick up the silverware in 2015 ;)

Round 1 Team

B: Harwood Merrett Patfull
HB: Adcock Maguire Golby
C: Hanley Rich Rockliff
HF: Black Brown Zorko
F: McGrath Martin Green
Foll: Leuy* Redden Moloney
I/C Raines Bewick Beams Sub; Yeo

* (Likely to see them being very careful with him and spending a lot of time at FF with Martin playing quite a lot of Ruck for the first few rounds. If Martin hasn't made an impression by Round 3 you would think Lisle will then get a crack)

Players that I think/hope will come on and push right into contention: Karnezis,Polec,Docherty,Lester,Mayes,Bartlett, Staker,Lisle, Banfield
Click to expand...

Interesting, I like the 22 you've put together but at the same time based on last year I can't see Lester not being in the team. Yeo is the one I would swap him for, he had good evasive skills but his kicks the ball pretty high which he needs to sort out.
 

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2013 Team

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