Position 2015 SuperCoach forwards

[bananatigz]

Who would you pick between Deledio and Martin if you had too?

Like most, I dont want all 4 like you have, i'm trying to look for some value in the forward line with Swan, Wingard Titch etc. So having both Deledio and Martin is a struggle.

Had Deledio most of the preseason, but starting to doubt it now.

I was absolutely set on Deledio until about a week ago. When he settled forward in the second half of the season he played so well, averaged about 115 over the last 10 games. Confident he will average 105+. Then in the last week or so it turns out he is being 'managed' at the moment and isn't in full training, meanwhile Dusty is tearing everyone a new one in match practice and Hardwick has come out and said he will be played more in the middle. For now i've got both as I am pretty confident on both being top 6 forwards, hard to split though.

 

[ANGEL DARK]

Think he's past it SC wise, bit of a nothing pick at a nothing price, can't see him appreciating to keeper status so I'm not sure what the point is.

I think Tom Mitchell at the same price is a better pick, huge upside if he's in the best 22 which I'd say he probably is, what's everyones thoughts on Tom?

I cant see Mitchell getting a game at Sydney unless they have an injury or 2. He couldn't get a game last season with them even though he was having 50 possession games in the twos. Definitely not nailed on and I am quite surprised ive seen him named in so many teams

 

[Deliverance]

I was absolutely set on Deledio until about a week ago. When he settled forward in the second half of the season he played so well, averaged about 115 over the last 10 games. Confident he will average 105+. Then in the last week or so it turns out he is being 'managed' at the moment and isn't in full training, meanwhile Dusty is tearing everyone a new one in match practice and Hardwick has come out and said he will be played more in the middle. For now i've got both as I am pretty confident on both being top 6 forwards, hard to split though.

I'm generally happy to pass on anyone who might be underdone coming in to the season.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Selwood and Hibberd were ment be underdone last preseason but started off very well.

 

[Kadog]

Dusty is a LOCK. Love that old skool mongrel in him.

 

[markm106]

I have both Delidio and Martin at the moment. But obviously team in early stages. I will be keeping Martin for sure. I think he could explode this year.

 

[MightyMark]

I cant see Mitchell getting a game at Sydney unless they have an injury or 2. He couldn't get a game last season with them even though he was having 50 possession games in the twos. Definitely not nailed on and I am quite surprised ive seen him named in so many teams

If he lines up round one he will be in my team. Not the end of the world, a little shuffling in my backline to free up some cash and Titch will turn into another premo mid.

 

[MightyMark]

Selwood and Hibberd were ment be underdone last preseason but started off very well.

Selwood is a different breed, I would consider him if he lined up with a 3 broken ribs and a missing leg. As long as he is on the ground and his hands are free he will get the ball.

I was absolutely set on Deledio until about a week ago. When he settled forward in the second half of the season he played so well, averaged about 115 over the last 10 games. Confident he will average 105+. Then in the last week or so it turns out he is being 'managed' at the moment and isn't in full training, meanwhile Dusty is tearing everyone a new one in match practice and Hardwick has come out and said he will be played more in the middle. For now i've got both as I am pretty confident on both being top 6 forwards, hard to split though.

Im in the same boat, the talk coming out about Martin improving his tank is very appealing, if he can play out a full game in the mids with the occasional rest up forward he could be capable of some huge out put.

I didn't hear that Deledio was being managed but that knowledge will definitely see me lean Martin's way for the time being.

 

[cdcanman]

I cant see Mitchell getting a game at Sydney unless they have an injury or 2. He couldn't get a game last season with them even though he was having 50 possession games in the twos. Definitely not nailed on and I am quite surprised ive seen him named in so many teams

A few reasons why I believe he will play.
*Was carrying an ankle for most of last year that didn't allow him to train. Hard to ask a veteran team to accept a guy getting a game even though he couldn't put in the work others were.
*Don't underestimate the impact the GF loss has on them needing to make minor changes. A few of their blokes got shown up, Mitchell may well jump ahead of a few regulars from last year (think Lloyd, Cunningham, Shaw,, Rohan).
*Malceski gone, McVeigh return to defence perhaps
*All this and his form and ability being hard to ignore on its own

 

[Thuggee_Cult]

A few reasons why I believe he will play.
*Was carrying an ankle for most of last year that didn't allow him to train. Hard to ask a veteran team to accept a guy getting a game even though he couldn't put in the work others were.
*Don't underestimate the impact the GF loss has on them needing to make minor changes. A few of their blokes got shown up, Mitchell may well jump ahead of a few regulars from last year (think Lloyd, Cunningham, Shaw,, Rohan).
*Malceski gone, McVeigh return to defence perhaps
*All this and his form and ability being hard to ignore on its own

Bingo. You don't lose a Grand Final by 63 points and think that your team is hunky dory.

He is susceptible to injury but IMO if Mitchell is fit in Round 1, he is ahead of these guys easily:

Lloyd
Bird
Cunningham
Rohan

 

[Thuggee_Cult]

I think the reason for disagreement here is that people are wrongly calling it the "second year" syndrome when it's really the "year after" syndrome. It's not that players tend to have a let down in their second year ... they tend to have it the year after what is arguably their breakout year, regardless of how many years into their career that happens.

Lets look at the players mentioned and a few others. I'm using SC scores as they are the most reliable objective guide we have to performance.

Martin
2010 77.9 (promising start)
2011 98.9 (breakout year)
2012 88.5 (suffered a let down)
2013 101.8 (bounced back to breakout year form)

Fyfe
2010 72.6 (promising start)
2011 108.0 (breakout year)
2012 93.2 (suffered a let down)
2013 105.5 (bounced back breakout year form)

Zorko
2012 100.0 (broke out in his first year)
2013 82.9 (suffered a let down)
2014 99.0 (bounced back to breakout form)

Wingard
2012 51.7 (ordinary start)
2013 98.6 (breakout year)
2014 79.9 (suffered a let down)
2015 ?

H.Bennell
2011 68.6 (fair start)
2012 98.6 (breakout year)
2013 97.5 (maintained form)
2014 95.5 (maintained form)

D.Swallow
2011 79.7 (promising start)
2012 78.2 (no real change)
2013 79.2 (no real change)
2014 103.2 (breakout year)
2015 ?

Wines
2013 74.0 (promising start)
2014 100.3 (breakout year)
2015 ?

Macrae
2013 61.4 (fair start)
2014 100.1 (breakout year)
2015 ?

Bontempelli
2014 78.6 (promising start)
2015 ?

Martin, Fyfe and Zorko all follow the pattern of having a breakout year, falling away significantly the year after and then bouncing back the following year. Wingard may bounce back too. Bennell is the exception as he maintained his top form. The comment that started this debate was about Bontempelli but, as promising as it was, his first season wasn't good enough for him to suffer a let down in 2015. If anything the pattern suggests he's more likely to break out this year. The players I'd be concerned about are Wines, Macrae and Swallow. They're the ones most likely to suffer a let down this season ... according to the pattern.

Good analysis Hoddo

Macrae has third year blues written all over him IMO

 

[Super Hans]

Who would you pick between Deledio and Martin if you had too?

Like most, I dont want all 4 like you have, i'm trying to look for some value in the forward line with Swan, Wingard Titch etc. So having both Deledio and Martin is a struggle.

Had Deledio most of the preseason, but starting to doubt it now.

I'd take Deledio off the two, but I expect both to go 105+

 

[cdcanman]

Bingo. You don't lose a Grand Final by 63 points and think that your team is hunky dory.

He is susceptible to injury but IMO if Mitchell is fit in Round 1, he is ahead of these guys easily:

Lloyd
Bird
Cunningham
Rohan

Just minor changes. Still a very good football side. I think Mitchell makes them better, but the loss of Malceski will be tough to replace

 

[MightyMark]

Just minor changes. Still a very good football side. I think Mitchell makes them better, but the loss of Malceski will be tough to replace

Adding Mitchell in could free up McVeigh to play off half back, which could help ease the hurt from loosing Malceski, and give some game time to Mitchell

 

[cdcanman]

Adding Mitchell in could free up McVeigh to play off half back, which could help ease the hurt from loosing Malceski, and give some game time to Mitchell

 

[Mofra]

Good analysis Hoddo

Macrae has third year blues written all over him IMO

Griffen & Cooney gone means Macrae becomes our no 1 outside distributer and therefore attracts more opposition attention.
Quite likely he will have a down year compared to last year.

 

[bananatigz]

Wondering what people think will happen to Goddard in the event that Essendon get slapped with suspensions? Will well and truly be their best player so will undoubtably get a lot of attention from taggers. Will he take advantage of the amount of points on offer with a bunch of good essendon players out or will he struggle with no support?

 

[markm106]

Griffen & Cooney gone means Macrae becomes our no 1 outside distributer and therefore attracts more opposition attention.
Quite likely he will have a down year compared to last year.

That's quiet likely. Will Goodes get a game due to his experience and bigger body.

 

[Mofra]

That's quiet likely. Will Goodes get a game due to his experience and bigger body.

Possibly - but he's on the rookie list so requires an elevation.
Bulldogs are the second youngest list in the competition this year and many of our depth/VFL players simply aren't ready.

 

[toxic]

I'd take Deledio off the two, but I expect both to go 105+

Lids currently being Achilles managed..apparently .

Has me a tad nervous

 

[Thuggee_Cult]

Lids currently being Achilles managed..apparently .

Has me a tad nervous

I'd take Deledio off the two, but I expect both to go 105+

I would have no hesitation in picking Martin over Deledio if the latter was underdone in any way.

 

[Thuggee_Cult]

Wondering what people think will happen to Goddard in the event that Essendon get slapped with suspensions? Will well and truly be their best player so will undoubtably get a lot of attention from taggers. Will he take advantage of the amount of points on offer with a bunch of good essendon players out or will he struggle with no support?

If the whispers about Zaharakis where true then he may still be available, and if that is the case he could get the first tag.
Personally I would probably still pick Goddard either way TBH, it could very well take until the end of the year, perhaps more, for the whole process to be finalised.

 

[ANGEL DARK]

A few reasons why I believe he will play.
*Was carrying an ankle for most of last year that didn't allow him to train. Hard to ask a veteran team to accept a guy getting a game even though he couldn't put in the work others were.
*Don't underestimate the impact the GF loss has on them needing to make minor changes. A few of their blokes got shown up, Mitchell may well jump ahead of a few regulars from last year (think Lloyd, Cunningham, Shaw,, Rohan).
*Malceski gone, McVeigh return to defence perhaps
*All this and his form and ability being hard to ignore on its own

Completely disagree. Mitchell when fit last season was getting huge numbers in the twos and still couldn't crack it for a game. The GF loss was one game in the whole season. Don't forget those players that didn't perform in the GF were also the same players that made good contributions in helping them get to the grand final so judging them on one game be it the GF is not really going to sway the coach to dropping them for this season. I reallt think Sydney just had a bad day at the office in last years GF and that's all it was. With regards to Mitchells form well we all know he can get the ball but the truth is he still couldn't crack it for a game last season when he was fit and playing well in the twos so picking him again in your side will come with huge risk

 

[SnappyHappy]

Completely disagree. Mitchell when fit last season was getting huge numbers in the twos and still couldn't crack it for a game. The GF loss was one game in the whole season. Don't forget those players that didn't perform in the GF were also the same players that made good contributions in helping them get to the grand final so judging them on one game be it the GF is not really going to sway the coach to dropping them for this season. I reallt think Sydney just had a bad day at the office in last years GF and that's all it was. With regards to Mitchells form well we all know he can get the ball but the truth is he still couldn't crack it for a game last season when he was fit and playing well in the twos so picking him again in your side will come with huge risk

You don't lose a GF by 10 goals and write it off as a bad day and stick with the same set-up for the next season. They need to try new things. They need to get better. Changes will be made. Longmire has already hinted at some changes, such as Sam Reid being used down back. Malceski leaving will also result in some changes obviously.

Mitchell has apparently been flying this pre-season and winning time trials so he will be right up there. His injuries from early in the season probably effected his overall fitness level going forward too. Don't underestimate the improvement continuity in training can bring.

 

[ANGEL DARK]

If he lines up round one he will be in my team. Not the end of the world, a little shuffling in my backline to free up some cash and Titch will turn into another premo mid.

He lined up in round 1 last year as well and played a handful of games before he was gone and hardly played again. Good luck with your assumption but I just cant see him breaking into what is already a strong Sydney midfield.