No Oppo Supporters 2016 General AFL Discussion Part 2 (Sydney Posters Only)

[Achy Blakey Heart]

I'm starting to get the shits.

I understand we need cap space to top up Heens Mills etc in the future.......but seriously T.Richards, McGlynn, Mitchell, X.Richards, Nankervis.....surely we can make a play for some speed on the outside.

 

[scaryness]

21 for Hartung + Whitecross would be a steal for Brisbane.

Would rather 21 to be honest.

Whitecross is bottom tier best 22 at most clubs and they already have Hartung and his name is Lewis Taylor

Don't rate Hartung much.

 

[caesar88]

way too early to tell if Hawthorn's strategy will prove a failure or not. I wonder how much involvement coaches have in list management? I just can't imagine Clarkson saying, "alright boys listen up.. if we lump out these two, then we can get save x amount of money, and boom, we'll get Fyfe!" Coaches worry about the players they can control, the list management staff do the rest. So why on earth people are calling it potentially Clarkson's master plan is confusing to me

 

[Number37]

Because Clarko is the bestest.

 

[Punts]

Because Clarko is the bestest.

Of the modern era

By a mile

 

[Number37]

Of the modern era

By a mile

He has had a core group of Buddy/Hodge/Mitchell/Lewis/Roughy/Cyril since day one.
Added Burgoyne who is IMO the most underrated footballer in footyland.
Got Gunston and Lake on the cheap.
All in all he has had a bloody good list that have been largely injury free (at least in finals).

 

[Punts]

He has had a core group of Buddy/Hodge/Mitchell/Lewis/Roughy/Cyril since day one.
Added Burgoyne who is IMO the most underrated footballer in footyland.
Got Gunston and Lake on the cheap.
All in all he has had a bloody good list that have been largely injury free (at least in finals).

Very true

Longmire has a very good list and failed a few times now

Still think clarko is always a head of the curve

 

[Number37]

Very true

Longmire has a very good list and failed a few times now

Still think clarko is always a head of the curve

Not disputing that he is a very good coach, but the cattle at his disposal is one of the primary reasons for their success IMO.
If we had Hodge and/or Mitchell in 2014 or 2016 the result may have been different.

 

[Kirkswan]

He has had a core group of Buddy/Hodge/Mitchell/Lewis/Roughy/Cyril since day one.
Added Burgoyne who is IMO the most underrated footballer in footyland.
Got Gunston and Lake on the cheap.
All in all he has had a bloody good list that have been largely injury free (at least in finals).

You don't credit him with signing any of them? Cause I'm thinking that he took control at the commencement of the draft period in 2004 and drafted Buddy in that year, and thought he also drafted Roughey the same year. Hodge was already there and not sure about the others... And imagine if Mick Malthouse had had the team No way there would have been the same outcomes...

I personally can't think of anyone I'd rate higher but am open to suggestions...

 

[Number37]

You don't credit him with signing any of them? Cause I'm thinking that he took control at the commencement of the draft period in 2004 and drafted Buddy in that year, and thought he also drafted Roughey the same year. Hodge was already there and not sure about the others... And imagine if Mick Malthouse had had the team No way there would have been the same outcomes...

I personally can't think of anyone I'd rate higher but am open to suggestions...

Personally I think the legacy of players like Hodge/Mitchell/Burgoyne/Cyril will be just as good, if not better than, the legacy of Clarko.

Coaching 4 flags is one thing, playing in and being a pivotal part of 4 flags is another altogether.
Talent isn't everything, we have learned that the hard way.
It takes a special kind of player to perform year after year on the big stage on the biggest day of the year.

 

[MarkP]

Personally I think the legacy of players like Hodge/Mitchell/Burgoyne/Cyril will be just as good, if not better than, the legacy of Clarko.

Coaching 4 flags is one thing, playing in and being a pivotal part of 4 flags is another altogether.
Talent isn't everything, we have learned that the hard way.
It takes a special kind of player to perform year after year on the big stage on the biggest day of the year.

Mate any coach that can play the best forward of the 2000's, one of the greatest ever, as a decoy and up the ground and win a flag is pretty special.

To then lose that player and win 2 more after it - well shit.

We have carried on about our injury list, he just brings in another soldier and on he goes.

Did unbelievably well this year without a Roughie to be fair and for one straight kick who knows what happens.

He shits all over Horse. Our list is as good as his and has been for years and our results do not match up.

Clarko pays chess - Horse is still doing noughts and crosses and losing.

 

[Number37]

Mate any coach that can play the best forward of the 2000's, one of the greatest ever, as a decoy and up the ground and win a flag is pretty special.

To then lose that player and win 2 more after it - well shit.

We have carried on about our injury list, he just brings in another soldier and on he goes.

Did unbelievably well this year without a Roughie to be fair and for one straight kick who knows what happens.

He shits all over Horse. Our list is as good as his and has been for years and our results do not match up.

Clarko pays chess - Horse is still doing noughts and crosses and losing.

That's great but who's comparing him to Horse?

 

[MarkP]

That's great but who's comparing him to Horse?

Me.

In that last line I did

 

[SilentHunter_]

Unfortunately coaches like Clarko don't go on trees. And tbh it isn't Horse's fault that he's coaching as the same time as him. He's a good coach himself. But clarko's just better.

 

[caesar88]

Ok i don't know if it was my comment that led to that discussion ^ but I was referring to the fact everyone is putting everything happening at Hawthorn at Clarkson's feet.

I just think he's had FA to do with players coming in and out. Just like I think Horse made zilch impact on us recruiting Tippett and Buddy. So if Hawthorn do rebuild their list and become premiers through acquiring all these stars it's going to be kinda difficult to credit much of it to him.

Also it's harder to win one flag than it is to win a second or third in a row.

 

[miggs]

**** Clarko and **** Hawthorn

 

[Number37]

Me.

In that last line I did

If Horse is no good how does that make Clarko great?

 

[SilentHunter_]

Also it's harder to win one flag than it is to win a second or third in a row.

This statement is wrong.

 

[swansfan51]

Hawthorn have been hugely better than us over the past 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, 50 years. They've been the best team in the league over any of those timelines you wish to choose. It appears there are a few heads in the sand.

 

[Kirkswan]

Personally I think the legacy of players like Hodge/Mitchell/Burgoyne/Cyril will be just as good, if not better than, the legacy of Clarko.

Coaching 4 flags is one thing, playing in and being a pivotal part of 4 flags is another altogether.
Talent isn't everything, we have learned that the hard way.
It takes a special kind of player to perform year after year on the big stage on the biggest day of the year.

I agree that talent isn't everything, and I agree that it takes a special kind of player to perform year after year on the big stage... but I can't agree that they could have done it without Clarko. IMO he is pivotal to them being able to do this... which makes him the best in the current era. No-one else has come close...

 

[Kirkswan]

Ok i don't know if it was my comment that led to that discussion ^ but I was referring to the fact everyone is putting everything happening at Hawthorn at Clarkson's feet.

I just think he's had FA to do with players coming in and out. Just like I think Horse made zilch impact on us recruiting Tippett and Buddy. So if Hawthorn do rebuild their list and become premiers through acquiring all these stars it's going to be kinda difficult to credit much of it to him.

Also it's harder to win one flag than it is to win a second or third in a row.

History kinda says that not's true... it kinda indicates that it is in fact, much, much harder to win two in a row that to win one, and exponentially harder to win three in a row...

 

[GoTheSwannies]

Personally I think the legacy of players like Hodge/Mitchell/Burgoyne/Cyril will be just as good, if not better than, the legacy of Clarko.

Coaching 4 flags is one thing, playing in and being a pivotal part of 4 flags is another altogether.
Talent isn't everything, we have learned that the hard way.
It takes a special kind of player to perform year after year on the big stage on the biggest day of the year.

Agreed. Clarko is a phenomenal coach. But he has had some absolute top shelf players. In saying that, is it luck with players or did Clarko develop that mental aspect.

I'd say it's part the players, but a lot of it has to do with clarkos philosophy and the psychological aspect.

Hawthorn were mentally fragile in 2012 and failed on the big stage. He took that group, and the valuable lesson learned and turned it into a 3peat.

I think that is largely due to clarkos influence. It's 90% between the ears and Clarko did an amazing job of getting the best out of his squad.

 

[cherub]

Agreed. Clarko is a phenomenal coach. But he has had some absolute top shelf players. In saying that, is it luck with players or did Clarko develop that mental aspect.

I'd say it's part the players, but a lot of it has to do with clarkos philosophy and the psychological aspect.

Hawthorn were mentally fragile in 2012 and failed on the big stage. He took that group, and the valuable lesson learned and turned it into a 3peat.

I think that is largely due to clarkos influence. It's 90% between the ears and Clarko did an amazing job of getting the best out of his squad.

Clarko's masterstroke was inviting the umpires to training camp. Hawthorn shouldn't have been in two of those grandfinals.

 

[Number37]

I agree that talent isn't everything, and I agree that it takes a special kind of player to perform year after year on the big stage... but I can't agree that they could have done it without Clarko. IMO he is pivotal to them being able to do this... which makes him the best in the current era. No-one else has come close...

I wasn't suggesting they could/would do it without Clarko.
The Hawks position is enviable because it was the right coach for the right playing group at the right time.
That is not to detract from anything they have achieved, but for mine the kudos should go to the playing group as much as it does to Clarko.
Bit like our 2005 flag team. Right coach met the right players. We should be forever thankful to Paul Roos just as much as that playing group.

 

[Olian]

Is this the Hawks board or the Swans board.

Edit, Clarko is the GOAT