Strategy 2016 Tacs Trailer

[Janus]

How is this strategy different to what other clubs play Janus? I wouldve thought most clubs would play this press to some degree.

Every club plays a press. It's how high the defenders get to overload the forward 50 and cause more intercepts that is the difference. Take for example, Adelaide on the weekend - they never emptied out their defensive 50 because they rely on a slingshot counter-attack.

This is what our press is meant to look like:

The whole idea behind it is this - how far, realistically, can a player kick the football? 60m without losing accuracy if they have a booming kick like Hurn or Hartlett? If you look at the lines on the field, they represent 15m increments. So what you have at a kick-in situation is 3 players preventing anything but the dinky kick into the pocket that is the standard get out kick, 4 players standing 15m behind them in the second line (35m) and 5 players another 20m behind them in the third line (55m). They are the players who can have a direct influence on the play. Their job is to lock the ball into offensive 50.

However, if the kick-in player plays on, he could theoretically get another 5-10m and clear the third line (though his chances of actually picking out a target through all those bodies is minimal) - hence why the last line sits at around 60-80m, with 4 players covering it. The last two players act as 'sweepers' - this assignment changes according to which players are pushing up into defense to receive the ball (e.g if a Walker type pushed into defensive 50, Trengove or Carlile would go with him and a faster player like Pittard would become the sweeper because there is a greater chance of a fast break attack happening, since Walker has the ability to take a mark and then quickly play on due to the distance on his kick. But if it was Walker/Jenkins in attack, Carlile/Trengove would stay back).

As the ball moves up the ground, the players shift as well:

Until it moves to a point where the press actually starts closing in from behind as well. You'll note that a lot of the pressure that came from behind against St.Kilda happened around this area for that exact reason:

The difference between what we are doing and what other teams have done in the past is that we aren't trying to simply cause a turnover in our attacking 50 through pressure from our forwards. It's more that we are shifting our entire defense forward of center and aiming to lock the ball in until we score a goal. That pressure forces sides to long kick to the wings where we have the opportunity to kill the ball out of bounds with a spoil or intercept mark.

But as I've said, a good press is better than a zone because it's fluid. If you look at what is meant to happen when the ball gets pushed to the wing, it looks something like this:

Notice how around the ball, the defending players are standing close together, whereas on the other side of the ground the distance between defenders is far greater as to cover more distance. The reason this can be done is two fold - the player with the ball is either going to switch back through defense to reach the other side, enabling the players in the middle of the ground to slide across and create the same overload on the opposing wing. Or they are going to attempt a risky kick across the ground, increasing the opportunity for an intercept mark due to the amount of time the ball has to travel in the air. Unfortunately for us at the moment, what is happening is this:

Players are getting sucked toward the ball, probably in a misguided attempt to get involved in the play, and leaving an empty wing that provides zero risk for the ball carrier to switch across to. And once that happens, everyone is caught out of position because there is no chance to reset, and easy 'Joe the Goose' goals are scored. The key here is simple - the further away a player is from the ball, the greater his separation from his teammates has to be. So if around the ball you are looking at a distance of 15-20m between players, 50m away you should be looking at a distance of around 30-40m. This is how you cover the ground efficiently when defending.

No defense is infallible, and goals will be scored against it. However, the opportunity to constantly be in a threatening position makes the press a great defensive tactic. The more you can get opposition teams kicking across the ground on a diagonal to find players in space, the more chances you have to create a turnover through an intercept.

 

[tribey]

Interesting stat: This year we have least amount of marks in the comp - average 54 per game. Something aint right - run harder boys

Kicking at 52% percent would have a lot to do with it.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Every club plays a press. It's how high the defenders get to overload the forward 50 and cause more intercepts that is the difference. Take for example, Adelaide on the weekend - they never emptied out their defensive 50 because they rely on a slingshot counter-attack.

This is what our press is meant to look like:

The whole idea behind it is this - how far, realistically, can a player kick the football? 60m without losing accuracy if they have a booming kick like Hurn or Hartlett? If you look at the lines on the field, they represent 15m increments. So what you have at a kick-in situation is 3 players preventing anything but the dinky kick into the pocket that is the standard get out kick, 4 players standing 15m behind them in the second line (35m) and 5 players another 20m behind them in the third line (55m). They are the players who can have a direct influence on the play. Their job is to lock the ball into offensive 50.

However, if the kick-in player plays on, he could theoretically get another 5-10m and clear the third line (though his chances of actually picking out a target through all those bodies is minimal) - hence why the last line sits at around 60-80m, with 4 players covering it. The last two players act as 'sweepers' - this assignment changes according to which players are pushing up into defense to receive the ball (e.g if a Walker type pushed into defensive 50, Trengove or Carlile would go with him and a faster player like Pittard would become the sweeper because there is a greater chance of a fast break attack happening, since Walker has the ability to take a mark and then quickly play on due to the distance on his kick. But if it was Walker/Jenkins in attack, Carlile/Trengove would stay back).

As the ball moves up the ground, the players shift as well:

Until it moves to a point where the press actually starts closing in from behind as well. You'll note that a lot of the pressure that came from behind against St.Kilda happened around this area for that exact reason:

The difference between what we are doing and what other teams have done in the past is that we aren't trying to simply cause a turnover in our attacking 50 through pressure from our forwards. It's more that we are shifting our entire defense forward of center and aiming to lock the ball in until we score a goal. That pressure forces sides to long kick to the wings where we have the opportunity to kill the ball out of bounds with a spoil or intercept mark.

But as I've said, a good press is better than a zone because it's fluid. If you look at what is meant to happen when the ball gets pushed to the wing, it looks something like this:

Notice how around the ball, the defending players are standing close together, whereas on the other side of the ground the distance between defenders is far greater as to cover more distance. The reason this can be done is two fold - the player with the ball is either going to switch back through defense to reach the other side, enabling the players in the middle of the ground to slide across and create the same overload on the opposing wing. Or they are going to attempt a risky kick across the ground, increasing the opportunity for an intercept mark due to the amount of time the ball has to travel in the air. Unfortunately for us at the moment, what is happening is this:

Players are getting sucked toward the ball, probably in a misguided attempt to get involved in the play, and leaving an empty wing that provides zero risk for the ball carrier to switch across to. And once that happens, everyone is caught out of position because there is no chance to reset, and easy 'Joe the Goose' goals are scored. The key here is simple - the further away a player is from the ball, the greater his separation from his teammates has to be. So if around the ball you are looking at a distance of 15-20m between players, 50m away you should be looking at a distance of around 30-40m. This is how you cover the ground efficiently when defending.

No defense is infallible, and goals will be scored against it. However, the opportunity to constantly be in a threatening position makes the press a great defensive tactic. The more you can get opposition teams kicking across the ground on a diagonal to find players in space, the more chances you have to create a turnover through an intercept.

But if Crows can do the slingshot, why can't we? We used to. Sorry I am pretty dumb with this stuff. I loved our run carry and slingshot.

 

[ploppy]

Every club plays a press. It's how high the defenders get to overload the forward 50 and cause more intercepts that is the difference. Take for example, Adelaide on the weekend - they never emptied out their defensive 50 because they rely on a slingshot counter-attack.

This is what our press is meant to look like:


/QUOTE]

Ken is that you?

 

[Janus]

But if Crows can do the slingshot, why can't we? We used to. Sorry I am pretty dumb with this stuff. I loved our run carry and slingshot.

Slingshot is based on running - the teams that did it effectively did so through a higher rotation count. 30 might not seem like much, but when North is already reducing training loads (and they have proven in the past to be just as fit as us), Adelaide will burn out due to the lower rotation around...July. I guess by that time they figure they'll be out of the 'hard' part of their draw. It won't surprise me in the slightest if they hold back Cameron and burn through Milera in the first part of the season and then switch over to maintain their spread. It sounds callous, but if you're going to play that sort of explosive style and take advantage of other teams trying to pace themselves to get through the season, that's what they are going to have to do.

Will fall in a heap just like Essendon 2012/2013.

 

[tribey]

Slingshot is based on running - the teams that did it effectively did so through a higher rotation count. 30 might not seem like much, but when North is already reducing training loads (and they have proven in the past to be just as fit as us), Adelaide will burn out due to the lower rotation around...July. I guess by that time they figure they'll be out of the 'hard' part of their draw. It won't surprise me in the slightest if they hold back Cameron and burn through Milera in the first part of the season and then switch over to maintain their spread. It sounds callous, but if you're going to play that sort of explosive style and take advantage of other teams trying to pace themselves to get through the season, that's what they are going to have to do.

Will fall in a heap just like Essendon 2012/2013.

"Please be right" - Everyone

 

[Far Kern]

But if Crows can do the slingshot, why can't we? We used to. Sorry I am pretty dumb with this stuff. I loved our run carry and slingshot.

"Please be right" - Everyone

There's no doubt at all for mine that fatigue over this season will be a particular thing. Injury lists over winter and heading into September will be brutal. I'm sure that Janus is right on this one. But the thing is we will still attack in the way you want to see. When we turn it over in defense with the opposition committed forward our style will be just as brave and fast. There'll be plenty of quarters like Q4 against StK where we've worn down and blunted an opponent.

I'm concerned though that we start this particular season -2 on the list, and will do a lot more work in the stoppages over the season without Ryder. The speed/line-breaking silk/extra defensive run that Hinkley brought into this team is currently under-performing or injured (Polec/White/Krak). We need these guys, and hopefully an O'Shea/DBJ, to perform. I'll be interested to see with selection in the next few weeks if extra run comes in to our back line. Janus' description of the defensive role of our wings and breakdown of goals against last week just screams out for an O'Shea in form.

 

[Janus]

Counter-attack vs Counter-press

As I said on the podcast, counter-attack is the sister strategy to the counter-press, which is what we are using this season. Counter-attack is slingshot football, but it's reactive - it's a defensive press that requires the opposition to control the play inside their defensive half and set the tempo before attempting to intercept the ball and use the open space in their defense to quickly launch a counter, catching them flat footed. It is low-risk because mistakes are covered by an overload of defenders in the defensive 50 - so even sides that have poor defensive structure can look a million dollars.

However, it is also prone to physical fatigue. In a slow, considered game like soccer, that only lasts for 90 minutes on a pitch where one pass can put a striker in a scoring position, it works just fine. But over the course of a season, where running and endurance are factors, teams that play on the counter-attack will begin to slow down. The hope that the teams that have gone down this route have is that they would have put enough of a break on the rest of the competition that dropping games later on during the year won't be much of a factor and they can rest and recover during the mandated week off before finals to go again.

The majority of the sides in the competition now play a counter-attack style. Adelaide and the Western Bulldogs are the best proponents of it, primarily because they already played this way last season and so have a bigger jump on the competition.

The counter-press, on the other hand, is the more aggressive of the two strategies. Whereas the counter-attack is reactive, the counter-press is proactive. Whereas the counter-attack waits for the opposition to make a move and reacts accordingly, the counter-press, if done correctly, will force the opposition into acting a certain, defined way, because there are no other options available to them. This enables the defense to push further up the ground and overload the midfield rather than having the midfield push back to overload defense - reducing fatigue simply due to the fact that the ground, or the area that the players have to be accountable for, gets cut in half.

The issue with the counter-press is that if it's not set up correctly, or if players start to lose their shape due to a couple of quick goals being scored from individual defensive mistakes, it becomes very easy to score against, especially for a counter-attacking side which will use the wings as their outlet nine times out of ten. This is why it is vital for the counter-press to be as centralized as possible, with the central forwards pushing up into attacking fifty while the half forwards on the flanks hold back in their original positions. This forces the ball quickly out wide to a wide position in the opponent's defensive 50 - allowing the press to slide across and hem the ball in against the boundary line. The wings have to hold back and retain their shape, otherwise it becomes very easy for the opponent to switch the ball with a forward diagonal pass and catch the counter-pressing team on the break.

Here is what our counter-press should look like vs what we have been doing for the past three rounds. It's a little different from the press that I created earlier, but that was mainly to show coverage areas rather than where people actually stand:

As you can see, it's getting there. Now, pop quiz: If most teams are playing the counter-attacking style, what teams do you think are playing the counter-press? If you answered West Coast, you'd be right:

But that's too easy, because they played the same way last year. The one thing I will say is that now that West Coast have their key backs in the side their press is now spread out at the back and defending a little deeper. They lost to Hawthorn because of this fact when they should have been pressuring the ball carrier more. But there are at least two other sides that play the same way that we are, and it might surprise you:

Yes, Rodney Eade has the Suns playing a Counter-Press. Weird, huh? Or is it because he is more intelligent than most and has followed what Adam Simpson has pioneered by necessity last year, knowing that possession will be the key to attack with limited rotations and that turning the ball over quickly in your front half is much better than in defense when you are looking to limit fatigue? Interesting...but not when you look at the other team who plays a counter-press - Sydney:

Remember how shit Collingwood looked against Sydney? But then they turned around and beat Richmond? This is the reason why. A counter-press puts pressure on the defense and forces them to make good decisions. Sydney vs Adelaide this week will be a team playing counter-press vs a team playing counter-attack. Except the difference is, Sydney have no problem focusing on winning contested ball. Will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Us against the rest]

Go Swans.

 

[Malibu#27]

Counter-attack vs Counter-press

As I said on the podcast, counter-attack is the sister strategy to the counter-press, which is what we are using this season. Counter-attack is slingshot football, but it's reactive - it's a defensive press that requires the opposition to control the play inside their defensive half and set the tempo before attempting to intercept the ball and use the open space in their defense to quickly launch a counter, catching them flat footed. It is low-risk because mistakes are covered by an overload of defenders in the defensive 50 - so even sides that have poor defensive structure can look a million dollars.

However, it is also prone to physical fatigue. In a slow, considered game like soccer, that only lasts for 90 minutes on a pitch where one pass can put a striker in a scoring position, it works just fine. But over the course of a season, where running and endurance are factors, teams that play on the counter-attack will begin to slow down. The hope that the teams that have gone down this route have is that they would have put enough of a break on the rest of the competition that dropping games later on during the year won't be much of a factor and they can rest and recover during the mandated week off before finals to go again.

The majority of the sides in the competition now play a counter-attack style. Adelaide and the Western Bulldogs are the best proponents of it, primarily because they already played this way last season and so have a bigger jump on the competition.

The counter-press, on the other hand, is the more aggressive of the two strategies. Whereas the counter-attack is reactive, the counter-press is proactive. Whereas the counter-attack waits for the opposition to make a move and reacts accordingly, the counter-press, if done correctly, will force the opposition into acting a certain, defined way, because there are no other options available to them. This enables the defense to push further up the ground and overload the midfield rather than having the midfield push back to overload defense - reducing fatigue simply due to the fact that the ground, or the area that the players have to be accountable for, gets cut in half.

The issue with the counter-press is that if it's not set up correctly, or if players start to lose their shape due to a couple of quick goals being scored from individual defensive mistakes, it becomes very easy to score against, especially for a counter-attacking side which will use the wings as their outlet nine times out of ten. This is why it is vital for the counter-press to be as centralized as possible, with the central forwards pushing up into attacking fifty while the half forwards on the flanks hold back in their original positions. This forces the ball quickly out wide to a wide position in the opponent's defensive 50 - allowing the press to slide across and hem the ball in against the boundary line. The wings have to hold back and retain their shape, otherwise it becomes very easy for the opponent to switch the ball with a forward diagonal pass and catch the counter-pressing team on the break.

Here is what our counter-press should look like vs what we have been doing for the past three rounds. It's a little different from the press that I created earlier, but that was mainly to show coverage areas rather than where people actually stand:

As you can see, it's getting there. Now, pop quiz: If most teams are playing the counter-attacking style, what teams do you think are playing the counter-press? If you answered West Coast, you'd be right:

But that's too easy, because they played the same way last year. The one thing I will say is that now that West Coast have their key backs in the side their press is now spread out at the back and defending a little deeper. They lost to Hawthorn because of this fact when they should have been pressuring the ball carrier more. But there are at least two other sides that play the same way that we are, and it might surprise you:

Yes, Rodney Eade has the Suns playing a Counter-Press. Weird, huh? Or is it because he is more intelligent than most and has followed what Adam Simpson has pioneered by necessity last year, knowing that possession will be the key to attack with limited rotations and that turning the ball over quickly in your front half is much better than in defense when you are looking to limit fatigue? Interesting...but not when you look at the other team who plays a counter-press - Sydney:

Remember how shit Collingwood looked against Sydney? But then they turned around and beat Richmond? This is the reason why. A counter-press puts pressure on the defense and forces them to make good decisions. Sydney vs Adelaide this week will be a team playing counter-press vs a team playing counter-attack. Except the difference is, Sydney have no problem focusing on winning contested ball. Will be interesting to see what happens.

Loving your analysis mate. What's your footy background as you descriptions smack of someone that's coached at a reasonable level.

 

[Port85]

So what do Hawthorn do?

 

[Janus]

"If one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects." - Revenge of the Sith

Today's lesson is a case study on why the counter-press is effective against a possession team. The Western Bulldogs vs Hawthorn game was a classic, right? The layman might say that this proves that a counter-attack team can do just as well against a skilled opponent. Yet in the first quarter it seemed like the Hawks would run away with the game. The Dogs just couldn't score. Let's look at why:



Wait, is that counter-attack football I see? Why yes it is! The Bulldogs might press at certain stages of the game when they are on top, but they are counter-attack team at heart, using intercept marks and run from the backline to generate scoring opportunities. This is why the loss of Murphy is such a huge blow to them - he not only facilitates intercepts, but he is a vital lynchpin in setting up attacks.

Now let's look at what happened in the remaining three quarters:



In the second the Bulldogs began to press - but because they are still setup as a counter-attack team you can see the same direction of movement to the right flank. Because they pressured the Hawks backline and started to force turnovers, they started to come back into the game...



In the third - their most dominant period - Beveridge had them playing a counter-press. I haven't been through every single Dogs game, but their season heat map up until this match never showed them moving so deep into the opposition forward line. This is because a counter-press requires running halfbacks that can slide from one side to the other to cut off passing lanes down the wings...and the Bulldogs have mainly 30+ year old players in those positions.



Then in the last...they lost the game because their defensive spread had diminished due to fatigue. The small spot in their backline was Beveridge trying to save the legs of his older players by putting them in a more defensive position. Unfortunately for Murphy, it didn't work.

And here ends the lesson - counter-attack is shit against a team like Hawthorn, and that's why we don't do it. Counter-press for the win

 

[Janus]

So what do Hawthorn do?

What do you think they do?



The answer is - they play something completely different. Not quite a counter-press, because you don't see the aggressive movement into the forward 50. They still play a midfield zone, really. And why wouldn't you when your ball movement and skills are as good as theirs.

 

[Andre]

Great analysis Janus. All the pressing, counter-pressing, counter-attacking has had me reading the links you've provided this weekend. Footy as a homework assignment

 

[Alberton Proud]

It's not just that the Tingles will burn out by mid year, their gameplan relies on other teams making mistakes -it's reactive not proactive

Zoning off, waiting for the errant kick and streaming forward with numbers

It's also always one player only going into the pack or marking contest with 3 others hanging out waiting for the errant handball or chip-scabbing the crumbs

Rinse, repeat

Fine when your playing Richmond, or dare I say it Port, but it won't stand up to the Hawks or Sydney or Geelong who'll pick their way up the field with little or no resistance (see Hawks final last year)

 

[Janus]

Great analysis Janus. All the pressing, counter-pressing, counter-attacking has had me reading the links you've provided this weekend. Footy as a homework assignment

Strategy and tactics have always fascinated me. It's why I love watching association football played in the right way - the dichotomy of different formations playing against each other, hoping to exploit a perceived weakness in the opposition while mitigating the weakness in your own team.

Any sport that involves circulating the ball to create scoring opportunities - from football to basketball to hockey to soccer to lacrosse and all the ones in between - wind up having similar tactics and strategies for defence simply because the key to defence in those sports is always to control the movement of the ball to where you want it to go, rather than where the opposition wants it to go.

Of course in a chaotic sport like Australian Rules the idea of a set formation will never work because there is the added element of contact and the 360 degree nature of the game, but the principles will always be exactly the same, IMO.

 

[Far Kern]

There's a good discussion from Friday night on SEN with Nathan Buckley here (not sure how to link directly, find The Coaches Box Round 3 Nathan Buckley http://www.sen.com.au/audio#1UpzBkQ4s07ICyi9.97) particularly between 5 and 20 minutes.

He talks about performance/plans as the season unfolds, the importance of the right level of arousal, how experience effects this, how a sides performance can be judged and/or adjusted, how and when to throw out what you've worked on over summer.

In relation to Hawthorn he describes their flexibility, alternating stoppage setups in games, their experience and trust, and their skill level. Their numbers are much higher by hand so far this year than you would think. Buckley sees a trend in this (continuous ball movement) and names Sydney and the Bulldogs as well. Obviously they are a possession based team, but specifically he describes them as a "time and space" team. For Hawthorn when in possession, whether by hand or foot, the key is to exploit their skill and experience by putting the ball where the opposition aren't, so that the ball carrier has time and space.

Getting right up at them (counter-pressing) is a way to deny this "aren't".

 

[Andre]

Strategy and tactics have always fascinated me. It's why I love watching association football played in the right way - the dichotomy of different formations playing against each other, hoping to exploit a perceived weakness in the opposition while mitigating the weakness in your own team.

Any sport that involves circulating the ball to create scoring opportunities - from football to basketball to hockey to soccer to lacrosse and all the ones in between - wind up having similar tactics and strategies for defence simply because the key to defence in those sports is always to control the movement of the ball to where you want it to go, rather than where the opposition wants it to go.

Of course in a chaotic sport like Australian Rules the idea of a set formation will never work because there is the added element of contact and the 360 degree nature of the game, but the principles will always be exactly the same, IMO.

With various lines set up, I wonder if this will up the value of players who can kick it longer, as you'd imagine the various lines/positions have to mostly set up for the 'average' kick.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Janus are the heat maps part of the AFL Live pass subscription or from a Champion data subscription?

 

[Janus]

Janus are the heat maps part of the AFL Live pass subscription or from a Champion data subscription?

Telstra was finally good for something AFL Live Pass.

Although I would love to get a CD subscription if I could just find out where it's available, cause I can't seem to find it on their site.

 

[Nemisis]

So what do Hawthorn do?

Win

 

[Macca19]

Telstra was finally good for something AFL Live Pass.

Although I would love to get a CD subscription if I could just find out where it's available, cause I can't seem to find it on their site.

There isnt one unfortunately

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Telstra was finally good for something AFL Live Pass.

Although I would love to get a CD subscription if I could just find out where it's available, cause I can't seem to find it on their site.

Send CD an email and ask what they are prepared to sell you on subscription if its reasonable cost, but expensive for 1 person, say $1,200 maybe 6 to 10 people on here might chip in like the Player Sponsor to get access to their data. Or you can maybe get them to set up a new category of subscription to obsessive footy fans.

 

[Janus]

Send CD an email and ask what they are prepared to sell you on subscription if its reasonable cost, but expensive for 1 person, say $1,200 maybe 6 to 10 people on here might chip in like the Player Sponsor to get access to their data. Or you can maybe get them to set up a new category of subscription to obsessive footy fans.

You might have been joking, but I sent the request anyway. It'll be interesting to see what they have to say

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

You might have been joking, but I sent the request anyway. It'll be interesting to see what they have to say

No it wasnt a joke. I am curious to see what their answer is and I reckon you may have asked for more than I might have asked for so thats why I suggested you write the email. I think it was Prowess but It might have been Footywire had a subscription to the public for about $80, which was better than what you get free now but didnt have things such as heat maps etc. D_One had a subscription 4 or 5 years ago and showed me their features.