Training 2017 Preseason

[Elixuh]

I see a danger in giving leadership positions to players before they're ready. Often leadership ability goes hand in hand with experience. 2-3 years is still too little experience I think. Let him settle in, play good footy, get to a point where he can consistently dominate in his position, and then add more strings to his bow.

Was about to say something similar. Give him a few years to develop his game and then transition in a few season. Nothing to be gained by elevating him too soon. It will be another tough year next year with an even more inexperienced defence. He will have his work cut out for him.

 

[Hysteria25]

Disagree with this line of thinking. I'm a big believer that people rise to the occasion when given responsibility. We have the leadership consultants coming in and I am sure they will be all over this type of stuff.

Would love to see Andrews as a vice captain, too.

Sources suggest that only 3/10 emerging leaders rise to the occasion when given responsibility at a young age

 

[CarterS]

I see a danger in giving leadership positions to players before they're ready. Often leadership ability goes hand in hand with experience. 2-3 years is still too little experience I think. Let him settle in, play good footy, get to a point where he can consistently dominate in his position, and then add more strings to his bow.

That's the conventional wisdom and of course hard to argue with it. I've seen many instances where someone is thrown into the lions den (so to speak) and risen to the occasion, and usually they end up better for it.

I'd argue he is already a leader within the backline especially with big sauce retired. Not to mention Fagan has said a few times that 'You don't have to have a title to be a leader' with his rotating leadership at training, etc. So it's all a bit of a moot point.

 

[CarterS]

I think there are countless examples in many spheres of good people being elevated above their skillset or coping ability.

What evidence is there that he couldn't handle it? I am curious. I am only going by what I see on the field and on the news but to me he seems mentally tougher than probably anyone else on the list, apart from 5 minutes against Geelong when he got sucked in by Selwood a bit (and that's just a maybe, I loved it).

 

[Elixuh]

That's the conventional wisdom and of course hard to argue with it. I've seen many instances where someone is thrown into the lions den (so to speak) and risen to the occasion, and usually they end up better for it.

I'd argue he is already a leader within the backline especially with big sauce retired. Not to mention Fagan has said a few times that 'You don't have to have a title to be a leader' with his rotating leadership at training, etc. So it's all a bit of a moot point.

I approach it from the perspective of, why take the risk? The risk that it may be detrimental to his development.

I agree with your 2nd point though.

 

[CarterS]

I approach it from the perspective of, why take the risk? The risk that it may be detrimental to his development.

I agree with your 2nd point though.

Fair point. Just to provide devil's advocate, I was thinking that he would get more out of it than an established favourite would. Could boost his confidence and he could really come out of his shell. When we are down the bottom is the time to do this type of thing, a great example would be Graeme Smith in South Africa's Cricket team. A bad example would be Rockliff.

 

[Robbo18!]

I personally wouldn't rush a vc role on someone like Harrow too early. I'd rather see him keep his focus on his development. The leadership roles will happen when he's really ready for it.
Leadership group maybe, but as has been said he leads on the field without a title at the moment which is good enough for now I think.

 

[Skoob]

I personally wouldn't rush a vc role on someone like Harrow too early. I'd rather see him keep his focus on his development. The leadership roles will happen when he's really ready for it.
Leadership group maybe, but as has been said he leads on the field without a title at the moment which is good enough for now I think.

Exactly. You have to be a player first (IMO) and he is still developing that side of his job. It's tough when you have such a young list and so many are very much still learning, but as a natural leader he will do so without official responsibility. In a year or 2, there will be no question when elevated that he can be a leader.

 

[BuntonRules]

I see a danger in giving leadership positions to players before they're ready. Often leadership ability goes hand in hand with experience. 2-3 years is still too little experience I think. Let him settle in, play good footy, get to a point where he can consistently dominate in his position, and then add more strings to his bow.

The club believes in him enough to have 2 draftees fly in from Vic & move into his house- with him as basically the welfare officer. He is ready.

 

[Skoob]

The club believes in him enough to have 2 draftees fly in from Vic & move into his house- with him as basically the welfare officer. He is ready.

I'm not disputing his possible readiness, but I don't know that young housemates is 'evidence' of anything. We have 6-10 new youngsters come in every year. They have to live somewhere. I agree that the club would probably approve the living arrangements, but not sure it proves too much.

 

[POBT]

I'm not disputing his possible readiness, but I don't know that young housemates is 'evidence' of anything. We have 6-10 new youngsters come in every year. They have to live somewhere. I agree that the club would probably approve the living arrangements, but not sure it proves too much.

It proves the club sees him as responsible and as setting a good example. To be honest, I think that it is relatively significant that a 20yo has earned that sort of trust. I mean, it is normally a role given to more mature leaders at the club. Perhaps it simply reinforces a preexisting view but it is still significant because it is quite unusual.

Leaving aside all of that, I'd be happy with a 20yo vice captain if they showed exceptional leadership qualities. I think that we've got a bit of a leadership void which possibly allows early promotion of a young leader. It isn't something that you can judge from outside though - what makes Voss/Carey different to Trengove/Densch as a young captain is probably hard to pinpoint except that the former were successful and the latter not.

I think VC isn't the same as captaincy though - the step up from leadership group to VC is smaller than the jump to captain. There have been a few young VCs or acting captains going around so it isn't that unusual.

 

[BuntonRules]

I'm not disputing his possible readiness, but I don't know that young housemates is 'evidence' of anything. We have 6-10 new youngsters come in every year. They have to live somewhere. I agree that the club would probably approve the living arrangements, but not sure it proves too much.

Really? Show me anywhere else where a club has delegated such resposnibilty to a 20 year old. Obviuosly within the inner sanctum he is highly regarded - and they are the ones that know.

It proves the club sees him as responsible and as setting a good example. To be honest, I think that it is relatively significant that a 20yo has earned that sort of trust. I mean, it is normally a role given to more mature leaders at the club. Perhaps it simply reinforces a preexisting view but it is still significant because it is quite unusual.

Leaving aside all of that, I'd be happy with a 20yo vice captain if they showed exceptional leadership qualities. I think that we've got a bit of a leadership void which possibly allows early promotion of a young leader. It isn't something that you can judge from outside though - what makes Voss/Carey different to Trengove/Densch as a young captain is probably hard to pinpoint except that the former were successful and the latter not.

I think VC isn't the same as captaincy though - the step up from leadership group to VC is smaller than the jump to captain. There have been a few young VCs or acting captains going around so it isn't that unusual.

 

[Happy_Neale]

Really curious to see if the change in mood around the club has am impact on our injury list. Some pretty interesting ideas floating around regarding the importance of the mental state of a player influencing the rate of injuries. With the club seemingly a bit rejuvenated this off season I reckon we could see an improvement with our injury numbers next season (hopefully).

 

[Robbo18!]

Really curious to see if the change in mood around the club has am impact on our injury list. Some pretty interesting ideas floating around regarding the importance of the mental state of a player influencing the rate of injuries. With the club seemingly a bit rejuvenated this off season I reckon we could see an improvement with our injury numbers next season (hopefully).

I would say that is a definite. Players may be more attune to their symptoms as well and therefore circumvent an injury that during recent periods may have gone unchecked leading to injury and time on the sidelines.

 

[Skoob]

It proves the club sees him as responsible and as setting a good example. To be honest, I think that it is relatively significant that a 20yo has earned that sort of trust. I mean, it is normally a role given to more mature leaders at the club. Perhaps it simply reinforces a preexisting view but it is still significant because it is quite unusual.

.

Really? Show me anywhere else where a club has delegated such resposnibilty to a 20 year old. Obviuosly within the inner sanctum he is highly regarded - and they are the ones that know.

I must admit that I don't know the living arrangements of all our first year players over the last few years, to debate whether it's unusual or not. I wouldn't have thought it bizarre.
Still, I did say that I don't dispute a level of trust nor the qualities that earn that trust. I just suggested quite a leap from suitable housemate to official leader.

 

[Dalions]

Latest from Peter Ryan, on afl.com.au
It would be great to get a bit of passion back into the place.

Proud young Lion wants the Gabba rocking again
Peter Ryan
January 2, 2017 10:03 AM

Ben Keays grew up supporting the Lions and his great-grandfather played for Fitzroy

LIONS Academy graduate Ben Keays can't wait to see the Gabba rocking once again.

After roaring his support for the club from the stands as a teenager, he wants his teammates to experience what it's like when the Lions are firing.

Keays was just 12 years old back in 2009 when the Lions were last played finals and were averaging crowds just under 30,000.

The son of a Fitzroy supporter who moved north from Hampton, Victoria in 2002, the young Keays cheered on his heroes wearing the maroon and blue.

Sadly, with only Daniel Rich and Tom Rockliff still on the list from that season, Keays suspects few of his teammates understand what it's like to have Brisbane people passionate about the footy.

"They probably think low crowds, no-one really cares about footy, but if the Lions are up and going everyone flocks to them," Keays told AFL.com.au.

How long it takes for a return to those days is anyone's guess but Keays shapes as a crucial cog in the rebuilding plan.

A local product, he entered the Lions Academy as a 14-year-old while attending St Joseph's College, Gregory Terrace – or Terrace as it's known in Queensland – before being taken with pick No.24 in the 2015 NAB AFL Draft.

Lions coach Chris Fagan said the Academy gives the Lions advantages with players such as Keays, Eric Hipwood, and future graduates Connor Ballenden and Jack Clayton being the types the club can build a talented local flavour around.

"It just gives you a great opportunity to get the young talent interested in playing AFL footy," Fagan said.

"You can capture them at a relatively young age. You can iron out a few of their skill deficiencies and help them build their bodies long before they are eligible to play AFL footy, so that is a distinct advantage that we have to take."

Keays wasn't without deficiencies when he made his debut in round six last season but he looked at home as the Lions pushed the Sydney Swans to three points that day.

The game was a highlight for Keays as friends and family flocked to the Gabba to watch the 19-year-old wear No.1 on debut, waving signs bearing his name and making enough noise to attract attention.

"I remember walking out of the huddle after three-quarter time and there was security all over them," Keays said.

"I could pick out the faces and I was like 'Oh Jeez."


He remembers the intensity too, which made the drop off as the Lions' season progressed even more noticeable.

Unfortunately for Keays, the competitiveness of his first game was short-lived as the Lions lost the next nine matches he played by an average of 10 goals.

"Everyone was really down and [there was] just no noise and no enthusiasm," Keays said.

Although he tried to look at each week as a fresh opportunity, he admits the season became taxing at times.

It wasn't until his 11th game that he experienced a win when the Lions defeated Essendon in round 18 at Etihad Stadium.

But with the help of his coaches, Keays finished the season with a better sense of his learning curve.

" took in a lot. The players I played on, I have mental notes that they do this and that," Keays said.

Greater Western Sydney's Heath Shaw and Port Adelaide's Jasper Pittard stood out among a list of opponents he experienced while playing the high half-forward role in a defensive manner.

Shaw's instructions and Pittard's rebounding were memorable as he experienced the game at the elite level for the first time.

After a junior career spent moving from stoppage to stoppage he added a defensive element to his game.

"I have always played with a lot of intensity and a high work-rate so it was just transferring that to running to the right spots and turning your head and pairing off at the right time," Keays said.

"I didn't find it too difficult and I worked a lot on my tackling as well."

He's finding Fagan's approach refreshing and is looking forward to it translating into games as the battle for spots heats up among the young players.

"They're all pretty excited because they feel like anyone could push in and play next year. We don't know what our line-up is going to look like," Keays said.

With a great grandfather who played for Fitzroy (and Collingwood) in Fred Keays and a lifetime supporting the Lions, he hopes to part of the next successful era.

And get that Gabba rocking again.

RELATED

• Tom Rockliff exclusive: 'I polarise people'

 

[M Malice]

afl.com today- http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-01-02/getting-the-gabba-rocking-a-priority-for-proud-lion-ben-keays a few snippets from the article-

Keays was just 12 years old back in 2009 when the Lions were last played finals and were averaging crowds just under 30,000.

Lions coach Chris Fagan said the Academy gives the Lions advantages with players such as Keays, Eric Hipwood, and future graduates Connor Ballenden and Jack Clayton being the types the club can build a talented local flavour around.

"You can capture them at a relatively young age. You can iron out a few of their skill deficiencies and help them build their bodies long before they are eligible to play AFL footy, so that is a distinct advantage that we have to take."

Everyone was really down and [there was] just no noise and no enthusiasm," Keays said.

Although he tried to look at each week as a fresh opportunity, he admits the season became taxing at times.

It wasn't until his 11th game that he experienced a win when the Lions defeated Essendon in round 18 at Etihad Stadium.

He's finding Fagan's approach refreshing and is looking forward to it translating into games as the battle for spots heats up among the young players.

"They're all pretty excited because they feel like anyone could push in and play next year. We don't know what our line-up is going to look like," Keays said.

 

[lionshine]

He is looking bigger isn't he?

 

[lionshine]

I don't think this has been posted yet but they have photo's of the draftee's in Lions guernsey's up on the Lions website among all the player profiles.

http://www.lions.com.au/season/players/senior-players

 

[lionshine]

And the rookies:

 

[Billy Puller]

He is looking bigger isn't he?

View attachment 323943

He is looking pretty big but I think there's a bit of the old pushing up of the biceps in that pic hahaha

 

[CarterS]

He is looking bigger isn't he?

Definitely.

"Everyone was really down and [there was] just no noise and no enthusiasm," Keays said.

Little snippets like that are insightful.

 

[Len S]

Yeah, but if crap posted but it's a public forum so who cares.
I thought they were back training on the 5th? May be wrong.
Don't think there will be any surprises re captain for this year. The two main names thrown around seem to be pretty spot on. Most likely capt and Vc.
Boys broke off into groups of 5 or 6 to talk about and then cast votes from 5 down to 1 to put a leadership Group together.
There were categories to vote on (don't quote me in the exact categories as I can't remember them exactly)

Such as:
Most trustworthy
Best on field leader
Off field leader
Brings positive culture
Who is admired and looked up to (football sense)

That type of thing.
Not going to repeat votes but a lot of you would be very surprised with some of the outcomes.
What it showed to me is that what we sometimes think we know about what is happening inside the club relationally is not always correct. I'm talking from a football side of things not from a mates getting in type of thing as the boys are very close and getting in really well.
There is a dramatic (huge) change in feeling, belonging and value type environment at the club. It seems like a significant congealing of players with management, management with staff and staff with players. A change that has made players really wanting to be around the club. Not just say that to appease the media.
Like everyone, how that equates to on field performance from the outset is too hard to guess this far out.
Healthy list (nearly all) and solid coaching and leadership can only hold this season in good stead for mine.
Been a real focus on being clean on both sides by hand and foot (Nicks left has improved greatly) as well as strength and conditioning plans to build individuals to suit their specific roles.

What a good, rather feel good post! Really got the board rockin Robbo,should be more of it .

 

[jasonrampage2010]

Who stepped on the stingray???

 

[jackess]

Who stepped on the stingray???

Archie