Prediction 2017 Round 1 Starting 22

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Leemas said:
Hammer, William, Gardiner, walker, Bastinac, shache, Keays, hipwood, bewick, lester, Clayton, dawson, n.robbo, Jansen, Taylor.

There's 15 who were all best 22 at one point or another during the year. I cannot see any of these guys breaking into any other team based on their performances this year. Not counting Essendon obviously.
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I think you're confusing "best 22" with anyone who got a game or was fortunate to be uninjured while everyone else was.
 

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Leemas said:
Hammer, William, Gardiner, walker, Bastinac, shache, Keays, hipwood, bewick, lester, Clayton, dawson, n.robbo, Jansen, Taylor.

There's 15 who were all best 22 at one point or another during the year. I cannot see any of these guys breaking into any other team based on their performances this year. Not counting Essendon obviously.
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That's not "best 22". That's "people who happened to get a game". And it's a bit funny that you're counting the likes of Bastinac - who spent most of the previous year in NM's best 22. Schache, Hipwood, Gardiner and Keays would also potentially get games in other teams - have you seen Fremantle's and Carlton's forward lines, for example?
 
Sherrinator said:
I feel Pick 16 is in for a massive pre-season and will earn a call up for his defensive pressure and gut-running.

Potential rising star too.
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Pick 22 is head and shoulders above pick 16! I can't believe he slid there!
 
dlanod said:
That's not "best 22". That's "people who happened to get a game". And it's a bit funny that you're counting the likes of Bastinac - who spent most of the previous year in NM's best 22. Schache, Hipwood, Gardiner and Keays would also potentially get games in other teams - have you seen Fremantle's and Carlton's forward lines, for example?
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Actually they were best 22 for the majority of the season, Bastinac left North Melbourne because he couldn't get games anymore. Yes I have casboult, Pavlich both get games ahead of our keys. Keays was pretty poor all year and you're kidding on Gardiner. I think he'll be a player but hopeless last year.
 
Leemas said:
Hammer, William, Gardiner, walker, Bastinac, shache, Keays, hipwood, bewick, lester, Clayton, dawson, n.robbo, Jansen, Taylor.

There's 15 who were all best 22 at one point or another during the year. I cannot see any of these guys breaking into any other team based on their performances this year. Not counting Essendon obviously.
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How about you name a best 22 first and then the 11 players from it that wouldn't get a game at any other club. Because clearly you wouldn't have all of the above in a best 22 list.
 
Leemas said:
Actually they were best 22 for the majority of the season
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Your definition of "best 22" is fundamentally different to most others then. There's a reason we call it the best 22 - it's refers to the best players we can put on the field, if no one has any injuries or other issues. Saying that Hammelmann, probably the 37th best player on our list, is in our best 22 is just silly.

Leemas said:
Bastinac left North Melbourne because he couldn't get games anymore.
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http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/R/Ryan_Bastinac.html

17 games in 2015. That's a lot of games for someone would "couldn't get games anymore".

Leemas said:
Yes I have casboult, Pavlich both get games ahead of our keys.
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It's almost like teams play more than a single key forward. Fremantle were starting Apeness and Taberner as key forward options. I'd take Schache and Hipwood before either of those two. Carlton were worse still.

So the net result IMO is that you've listed a bunch of guys, said they break into any other team, while ignoring that they wouldn't make our best 22.
 
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Fatcat08 said:
How about you name a best 22 first and then the 11 players from it that wouldn't get a game at any other club. Because clearly you wouldn't have all of the above in a best 22 list.
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I'll do it on my lunch break :p
 

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Alright since you're all so keen for it based on the new coach and how I feel he will pick the team (hawthorn based) here is my best 22 for 2017.

Fb: Gardiner frost Mcstay
HB:cutler Andrews Mayes
C: Bewick d.beams paparone
Hf:Christensen close Zorko
FF:Keays shache Taylor
R:Martin Rockliff rich
Int:Harwood m.robbo matho Bastinac.

Notable omissions:Bell - ball butcher bell wouldn't get a sniff if we're looking for good ball use which is how I expect us to play. Lester same boat.

Now the fun part players in our best 22 who wouldn't get a game at any other team: close, shache, Bastinac, Keays, matho (borderline reckon he could sneak into Richmonds line up), Taylor, Gardiner, frost, Mcstay, Bewick, paparone, Harwood.

I'd consider chucking Mayes in there too but I reckon I'd be crucified for that. Obviously I don't rate our defence at all - they let in so many points last year it wasn't funny and although I don't rate these blokes currently doesn't mean I don't think they will or could be players of the future, just think that they have been exposed to AFL football way too early and haven't played well enough to justify a game at any other team.

Obviously the round 1 team will probably look nothing like this but maybe you can see where I'm coming from now.
 
The other thing to remember when making comments like "half our players wouldn't get a game for any other team!" is that players perform better when in a better team. So it is easy to say things like oh Bastinac or Taylor or Bewick wouldn't get a game at a club like the Hawks, but you have to remember that if guys like Langford or O'Rourke or Hartung played in our side posters on our board would knock them just as much if not more so than they knock the likes of Basti, Lewy and Bewick and posters like Lemmas would definitely make comments like "Guys like O'Rourke and Hartung would never get a game for any other side!"

So I reckon if Langford and Hartung can get the odd game at the Hawks so could guys like Bastinac and Taylor. And we are talking about a side in the hawks that have played in 4 grand finals in the past 5 seasons. They would definitely get games at teams like the Suns, Blues, Tigers, Dockers, Port ect.
 
Leemas said:
Alright since you're all so keen for it based on the new coach and how I feel he will pick the team (hawthorn based) here is my best 22 for 2017.

Fb: Gardiner frost Mcstay
HB:cutler Andrews Mayes
C: Bewick d.beams paparone
Hf:Christensen close Zorko
FF:Keays shache Taylor
R:Martin Rockliff rich
Int:Harwood m.robbo matho Bastinac.

Notable omissions:Bell - ball butcher bell wouldn't get a sniff if we're looking for good ball use which is how I expect us to play. Lester same boat.
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Not too many objections with that 22 and your outs are basically the same as my view. I'd probably have Hipwood in for Close but that's about it.

Leemas said:
Now the fun part players in our best 22 who wouldn't get a game at any other team: close, shache, Bastinac, Keays, matho (borderline reckon he could sneak into Richmonds line up), Taylor, Gardiner, frost, Mcstay, Bewick, paparone, Harwood.
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This is where I disagree.
  • Keays, Harwood and Taylor may or may not miss out based off form. There's nothing fundamentally stopping them making any team's best 22.
  • Already touched on Bastinac, but Frost is in a similar boat - he got games for Collingwood last year, but now you say he won't get a game anywhere else? This is the same team that will be trading for Dunn. Gardiner would probably slot into that defence as well, if not others.
  • McStay would absolutely get games in a fair chunk of teams. Howe, for example, has made a career of basically being McStay.
  • Close and Schache would likely get a game at Carlton, who only have one credible KPF. Schache would probably do the same at Fremantle as well, even after their additions.
  • Bewick, Paparone and Mathieson probably do enough to get games on the fringe of most clubs.
There are a lot of fringe players out there, fronting up for teams every week. Plenty even win premierships. Players like Zaine Cordy, Bailey Dale, Jordan Foote, Adam Kennedy, Sam Reid and Billie Smedts got games for the top four clubs last year. Saying that our players won't get a game in any other team is simply hyperbole and since there's no way to prove it one way or another I doubt you're ever going to change your mind.
 
dlanod said:
Not too many objections with that 22 and your outs are basically the same as my view. I'd probably have Hipwood in for Close but that's about it.



This is where I disagree.
  • Keays, Harwood and Taylor may or may not miss out based off form. There's nothing fundamentally stopping them making any team's best 22.
  • Already touched on Bastinac, but Frost is in a similar boat - he got games for Collingwood last year, but now you say he won't get a game anywhere else? This is the same team that will be trading for Dunn. Gardiner would probably slot into that defence as well, if not others.
  • McStay would absolutely get games in a fair chunk of teams. Howe, for example, has made a career of basically being McStay.
  • Close and Schache would likely get a game at Carlton, who only have one credible KPF. Schache would probably do the same at Fremantle as well, even after their additions.
  • Bewick, Paparone and Mathieson probably do enough to get games on the fringe of most clubs.
There are a lot of fringe players out there, fronting up for teams every week. Plenty even win premierships. Players like Zaine Cordy, Bailey Dale, Jordan Foote, Adam Kennedy, Sam Reid and Billie Smedts got games for the top four clubs last year. Saying that our players won't get a game in any other team is simply hyperbole and since there's no way to prove it one way or another I doubt you're ever going to change your mind.
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Good points didn't think about Carltons KPF, obviously our ratings of players differ slightly. I see where we were crossing might I add maybe a bit of an exaggeration on my part hahaha
 
dlanod said:
Not too many objections with that 22 and your outs are basically the same as my view. I'd probably have Hipwood in for Close but that's about it.



This is where I disagree.
  • Keays, Harwood and Taylor may or may not miss out based off form. There's nothing fundamentally stopping them making any team's best 22.
  • Already touched on Bastinac, but Frost is in a similar boat - he got games for Collingwood last year, but now you say he won't get a game anywhere else? This is the same team that will be trading for Dunn. Gardiner would probably slot into that defence as well, if not others.
  • McStay would absolutely get games in a fair chunk of teams. Howe, for example, has made a career of basically being McStay.
  • Close and Schache would likely get a game at Carlton, who only have one credible KPF. Schache would probably do the same at Fremantle as well, even after their additions.
  • Bewick, Paparone and Mathieson probably do enough to get games on the fringe of most clubs.
There are a lot of fringe players out there, fronting up for teams every week. Plenty even win premierships. Players like Zaine Cordy, Bailey Dale, Jordan Foote, Adam Kennedy, Sam Reid and Billie Smedts got games for the top four clubs last year. Saying that our players won't get a game in any other team is simply hyperbole and since there's no way to prove it one way or another I doubt you're ever going to change your mind.
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Also sorta ignores the fact that Schache amd Hipwood would get games in a lot of sides on potential alone.
 
My side:
FB: Andrews, Frost, McStay
HB: Cutler, Mayes, Gardiner
Ruckman: Martin
Midfield: Zorko, Robinson, Rich, DBeams, Rockliff
HF: Paparone, Christensen, Taylor
FF: Walker, Hipwood, Schache
Int: Mathieson, Keayes, Bell, Bastinac

My NEAFL side:
FB: Hammelman, Skinner, Watson (78)
HB: Harwood, William, McGrath
Ruckman: Smith
Midfield: Robertson, Lester, Bewick, Jansen, Pick 3
HF: Dawson, Clayton, CBeams
FF: Eagles, Freeman, Close
Int: Pick 16, Pick 21, Pick 22, Allison (76), CHanley, Other rookies

Given the youth and the need to learn team roles, game plan, if a best 22 player were out injured, I'd fill their position with someone from the same line in the NEAFL. For instance, if Paparone is out injured and I've got him at HF, I'd replace him with either Dawson, Clayton or CBeams (the HFs in the NEAFL squad). I'm a strong believer in this mainly to our age profile and lack of leadership. The boys need to learn their job and learn it well.
 
Gardiner Frost Andrews
Cutler McStay Mayes

Zorko(C) DBeams Rich
Martin Keays Mathieson

Robinson Schache Rockcliff
Hipwood Close Christensen

Robertson, Paparone, William, Bastinac
 
Andrews - Frost - Harwood
Cutler - Gardiner - Paparone

Zorko - Rich - Keays
Martin - Beams - Rockliff

Mayes - Walker - Bundy
Schache - Close - Taylor

Bastinac - McStay - Mathieson - Bell
 
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deadset my favourite time of the year as a lions supporter. this without draft recruits
HARWOOD | FROST | GARDINER - love Harwood, hope he breaks out and relieves the midfield from time to time
RICH | ANDREWS | MCSTAY - the more weight onto Andrews the better - will be the most feared backman in the comp, something must come of all the hurt
MAYES | BEAMS | CHRISTENSEN - solid disposal through this line
ZORKO | SCHACHE | MATHIESON - matho and zorko at shacks feet is a sweet sweet thought
BELL | WALKER | HIPWOOD - hipwood can kick bags, a less blatant and more slippery bradshaw

MARTIN | ROCKLIFF | ROBINSON - sickening midfield

CUTLER | BASTINAC | KEAYS | DAWSON - pretty interchange, cutler can do anything, basti and keays can relieve rocky to play some forward
EMG: ROBERTSON | CLOSE | TAYLOR
a few more games into Archie who showed some promise

only to be decimated by injuries amirite
but otherwise a good competition for spots
 

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Prediction 2017 Round 1 Starting 22

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