2018 general discussions

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Matchu said:
The Suns don't have the benefit of father-son exceptions or Fitzroy connections to build their list with loyal guys but what they do have is an area that traditionally shows more interest in Aussie rules than any other part of Queensland. Per capita, the Gold Coast has proven it is far more Aussie rules inclined than any other city in QLD. Cairns also has a decent footy following but the smaller population and large distances between major cities means far less players make it to the AFL.
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Further to this point, the recruitment of certain players has added some bonds in the playing group. For example, there are now 3 players from Cairns on the list, which will continue to grow, but for now there is a senior player for the juniors in Harbrow and in future Bowes will take over. Those guys will also be huge for building the fanbase in Cairns and bringing new academy prospects through.
Looking at the Suns list, there are lots of little connections. Touk Miller and Peter Wright both came from the Calder Cannons in the same draft. Jack Leslie and Ben Ainsworth both came from Gippsland Power a couple of years apart. Darcy Macpherson and Brayden Fiorini both played together for the Northern Knights. You can imagine Charlie Ballard hearing about Sam Day in his time at Sturt, while Nick Holman, Harry Wigg and Aaron Young played against each each all year in the SANFL in 2017. Jack Scrimshaw, Jarryd Lyons and Tom Nicholls all came from Sandringham Dragons.
Of course, the PBC connection is a new and wonderful development, with Jesse Joyce and Brad Scheer breaking into the AFL side, and they have grown up with fellows like Connor Nutting, Brayden Crossley, and the other Suns academy boys. Then there's the Tassie boys KK, Lonergan and Hall, and WA boys Powell, Schoenfeld, Swallow, and Martin.
 

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17er said:
Further to this point, the recruitment of certain players has added some bonds in the playing group. For example, there are now 3 players from Cairns on the list, which will continue to grow, but for now there is a senior player for the juniors in Harbrow and in future Bowes will take over. Those guys will also be huge for building the fanbase in Cairns and bringing new academy prospects through.
Looking at the Suns list, there are lots of little connections. Touk Miller and Peter Wright both came from the Calder Cannons in the same draft. Jack Leslie and Ben Ainsworth both came from Gippsland Power a couple of years apart. Darcy Macpherson and Brayden Fiorini both played together for the Northern Knights. You can imagine Charlie Ballard hearing about Sam Day in his time at Sturt, while Nick Holman, Harry Wigg and Aaron Young played against each each all year in the SANFL in 2017. Jack Scrimshaw, Jarryd Lyons and Tom Nicholls all came from Sandringham Dragons.
Of course, the PBC connection is a new and wonderful development, with Jesse Joyce and Brad Scheer breaking into the AFL side, and they have grown up with fellows like Connor Nutting, Brayden Crossley, and the other Suns academy boys. Then there's the Tassie boys KK, Lonergan and Hall, and WA boys Powell, Schoenfeld, Swallow, and Martin.
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The growing PBC contingent on the list is the most significant of the connections. Here's a cool tweet of the original three from 2015 back when they were students at PBC High and got selected to play for QLD:
Now there's a second wave with Crossley and Dawson who are apparently best friends. It's great for the team culture.
 
Matchu said:
The growing PBC contingent on the list is the most significant of the connections. Here's a cool tweet of the original three from 2015 back when they were students at PBC High and got selected to play for QLD:
Now there's a second wave with Crossley and Dawson who are apparently best friends. It's great for the team culture.
Click to expand...
Again and again, you read about the importance of team culture and how the Suns had a toxic culture and all that palaver. But if you read the better researched articles, you'll find that "culture" or the mislabelling of a successful team's culture, such as the "Bloods Culture" at the Swans, is just a sexy way for the media to attribute reasons behind the success. There isn't any doubt that teams such as Sydney, Hawthorn, and Geelong have strong club cultures, but they spent a bloody long time building toward that success and the culture wasn't manufactured, it was organic.
To cross codes for a moment to illustrate why these kids from PBC are so important for us, have a look at Manchester United 30 years ago. They were a well regarded club with a history of success, but nothing close to the mighty Liverpool or Arsenal or Tottenham. Then in 1992 along came a group of teenagers who would conquer England and Europe for 20 years - Ryan Giggs, David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Nicky Butt and the Neville brothers. Just happened to be from the local neighbourhood and came up together to spark a run of success that turned the club into the most successful ever. It wasn't just those kids, although they helped, but it was the history, the timing, the investment and the right coach, Sir Alex Ferguson.
I'm not saying that these skinny kids are going to be the sole reason for a major culture shift in the Suns overall, it's a huge step in the right direction. You can already see how similar recruitment at GWS has done wonders for their young team, even if they have had far greater results because of their generous zones. The Giants also had the influence of Kevin Sheedy and Mark Williams in their formative years, plus a recruitment strategy that matched late career vets, mid career journeymen with rookies, rather than the marquee player/rookie coach approach of the Suns.
Perhaps now that the Suns have evolved into a list with experienced vets (5 players, 900+ games), mid-career leaders (15 players, 50+ games), first round draft picks under 22yo (10 players, almost 200 games) and then another half dozen depth players to go with the newest recruits, the team can really begin to develop their identity.
 
17er said:
Again and again, you read about the importance of team culture and how the Suns had a toxic culture and all that palaver. But if you read the better researched articles, you'll find that "culture" or the mislabelling of a successful team's culture, such as the "Bloods Culture" at the Swans, is just a sexy way for the media to attribute reasons behind the success. There isn't any doubt that teams such as Sydney, Hawthorn, and Geelong have strong club cultures, but they spent a bloody long time building toward that success and the culture wasn't manufactured, it was organic.
To cross codes for a moment to illustrate why these kids from PBC are so important for us, have a look at Manchester United 30 years ago. They were a well regarded club with a history of success, but nothing close to the mighty Liverpool or Arsenal or Tottenham. Then in 1992 along came a group of teenagers who would conquer England and Europe for 20 years - Ryan Giggs, David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Nicky Butt and the Neville brothers. Just happened to be from the local neighbourhood and came up together to spark a run of success that turned the club into the most successful ever. It wasn't just those kids, although they helped, but it was the history, the timing, the investment and the right coach, Sir Alex Ferguson.
I'm not saying that these skinny kids are going to be the sole reason for a major culture shift in the Suns overall, it's a huge step in the right direction. You can already see how similar recruitment at GWS has done wonders for their young team, even if they have had far greater results because of their generous zones. The Giants also had the influence of Kevin Sheedy and Mark Williams in their formative years, plus a recruitment strategy that matched late career vets, mid career journeymen with rookies, rather than the marquee player/rookie coach approach of the Suns.
Perhaps now that the Suns have evolved into a list with experienced vets (5 players, 900+ games), mid-career leaders (15 players, 50+ games), first round draft picks under 22yo (10 players, almost 200 games) and then another half dozen depth players to go with the newest recruits, the team can really begin to develop their identity.
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GWS recruited 2 great characters from Freo IMO - Matty deboer and Tendai Mzungu - great sportsmen and team players (selfless) which would have contributed further to a healthy culture.
 
lucylou said:
GWS recruited 2 great characters from Freo IMO - Matty deboer and Tendai Mzungu - great sportsmen and team players (selfless) which would have contributed further to a healthy culture.
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As we did with Mick Barlow(Freo) and Matty Rosa(WCE)......a decision that I applaud, and that can move us forward imo...
 
We also picked up Nick Malceski & Andrew Raines. They mightn't have contributed much onfield, but I think they'll be decent coaches.

I also think we'll benefit from Dew being part of that Bloods culture. Time will tell.
 

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lucylou said:
GWS recruited 2 great characters from Freo IMO - Matty deboer and Tendai Mzungu - great sportsmen and team players (selfless) which would have contributed further to a healthy culture.
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Mzungu was just given a position back at the Dockers in their Next Generation Program, similar to the Suns Academy, so clearly the Dockers rate him. De Boer got a contract extension with GWS, so he has obviously impressed them. Freo's commitment to their rebuild released some good players to seek opportunities elsewhere. Even though he's been coach for 5 years, Ross Lyon is only now getting the list he wanted and it's too young. By the time it matures, all their past heroes will be long gone.
 
Fat Pizza said:
We also picked up Nick Malceski & Andrew Raines. They mightn't have contributed much onfield, but I think they'll be decent coaches.

I also think we'll benefit from Dew being part of that Bloods culture. Time will tell.
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Andrew Raines is the son of a legend, Geoff, who was named in Richmond's Team of the Century. He was never going to live up to his Dad's reputation, although it was only Richmond who would give him a go in the draft. He actually came second in the AFL Rising Star and the Jack Dyer Medal in 2006, which is more than most players can ever boast. I hoped he'd come home to the Gold Coast when the Suns were being formed, but the timing was off and the Lions claimed him because his Dad was working there then.
In a quirk of fate he started his career with Richmond like his Dad, later moving to Brisbane, like his Dad, and finished his career at Carrara, like his Dad.
He's the Suns Academy Head Coach now, while Malceski is a development coach. If playing out your final contract as an audition for a minor coaching role that leads to a successful transition then I wish we brought in players like that every season.
 
17er said:
Andrew Raines is the son of a legend, Geoff, who was named in Richmond's Team of the Century. He was never going to live up to his Dad's reputation, although it was only Richmond who would give him a go in the draft. He actually came second in the AFL Rising Star and the Jack Dyer Medal in 2006, which is more than most players can ever boast. I hoped he'd come home to the Gold Coast when the Suns were being formed, but the timing was off and the Lions claimed him because his Dad was working there then.
In a quirk of fate he started his career with Richmond like his Dad, later moving to Brisbane, like his Dad, and finished his career at Carrara, like his Dad.
He's the Suns Academy Head Coach now, while Malceski is a development coach. If playing out your final contract as an audition for a minor coaching role that leads to a successful transition then I wish we brought in players like that every season.
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Rainsy, although I don't know him well, from what I have seen of him, is very good with the academy boys and not only has a good rapport with them, but also has them working well as a group. A player that got the most out of his abilities and pushes these kids to do the same. Would love him at the Tigers, but he seems to be doing very well in his current role.
 
What about Shaun Hart he's the ultimate clubman who got every drop out of his ability .
He played in the Lions 3 Premierships. Great for the clubs culture.
 
DoItForCaptBlood said:
Rainsy, although I don't know him well, from what I have seen of him, is very good with the academy boys and not only has a good rapport with them, but also has them working well as a group. A player that got the most out of his abilities and pushes these kids to do the same. Would love him at the Tigers, but he seems to be doing very well in his current role.
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eppo67 said:
What about Shaun Hart he's the ultimate clubman who got every drop out of his ability .
He played in the Lions 3 Premierships. Great for the clubs culture.
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I would say the same about Marcus Ashcroft, except a lot of people around here don't rate him at all. I put myself in the group that highly value his contribution, minority as it is. Shaun Hart is a bit preachy, for mine, and although I don't think he'll do harm at all I'm reserving my judgement until I see results.
 
17er said:
I would say the same about Marcus Ashcroft, except a lot of people around here don't rate him at all. I put myself in the group that highly value his contribution, minority as it is. Shaun Hart is a bit preachy, for mine, and although I don't think he'll do harm at all I'm reserving my judgement until I see results.
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re: Shaun Hart (not Ashcroft)...You may be right about being a "bit preachy" but I liken him to a Craig Lambert type......should be really great with the young blokes.
 
17er said:
Again and again, you read about the importance of team culture and how the Suns had a toxic culture and all that palaver. But if you read the better researched articles, you'll find that "culture" or the mislabelling of a successful team's culture, such as the "Bloods Culture" at the Swans, is just a sexy way for the media to attribute reasons behind the success. There isn't any doubt that teams such as Sydney, Hawthorn, and Geelong have strong club cultures, but they spent a bloody long time building toward that success and the culture wasn't manufactured, it was organic.
To cross codes for a moment to illustrate why these kids from PBC are so important for us, have a look at Manchester United 30 years ago. They were a well regarded club with a history of success, but nothing close to the mighty Liverpool or Arsenal or Tottenham. Then in 1992 along came a group of teenagers who would conquer England and Europe for 20 years - Ryan Giggs, David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Nicky Butt and the Neville brothers. Just happened to be from the local neighbourhood and came up together to spark a run of success that turned the club into the most successful ever. It wasn't just those kids, although they helped, but it was the history, the timing, the investment and the right coach, Sir Alex Ferguson.
I'm not saying that these skinny kids are going to be the sole reason for a major culture shift in the Suns overall, it's a huge step in the right direction. You can already see how similar recruitment at GWS has done wonders for their young team, even if they have had far greater results because of their generous zones. The Giants also had the influence of Kevin Sheedy and Mark Williams in their formative years, plus a recruitment strategy that matched late career vets, mid career journeymen with rookies, rather than the marquee player/rookie coach approach of the Suns.
Perhaps now that the Suns have evolved into a list with experienced vets (5 players, 900+ games), mid-career leaders (15 players, 50+ games), first round draft picks under 22yo (10 players, almost 200 games) and then another half dozen depth players to go with the newest recruits, the team can really begin to develop their identity.
Click to expand...
Nice post. Ultimately, I think a good culture is mostly based around accountability and I feel the Suns have lacked that over their existence, which is mainly due to the local media not putting enough pressure on them. Being based in Queensland means the Suns must drive their own internal standards and I think Stewy Dew is well equipped to implement a system that demands accountability after coming from a similar situation in Sydney.
 
Choppers said:
re: Shaun Hart (not Ashcroft)...You may be right about being a "bit preachy" but I liken him to a Craig Lambert type......should be really great with the young blokes.
Click to expand...
Funnily enough, Craig Lambert is a guy I rate extremely highly. I would go as far as to say that the Lions threepeat doesn't happen without him, despite him being finished as a player by then. Hell of a mentor and plenty of Lions midfielders who gave him similar credit.
 
Matchu said:
Nice post. Ultimately, I think a good culture is mostly based around accountability and I feel the Suns have lacked that over their existence, which is mainly due to the local media not putting enough pressure on them. Being based in Queensland means the Suns must drive their own internal standards and I think Stewy Dew is well equipped to implement a system that demands accountability after coming from a similar situation in Sydney.
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The difference between Queensland and SA as far as media is concerned is that Murdoch has thoroughly blanketed QLD media whereas SA media has somewhat of an alternative football media perspective. The AFL has been slow to realise this and the Suns really need to drive their own media - not hard since the Bulletin has an impenetrable paywall. I agree with the accountability angle, but the media should never be relied on for that power. They don't need it in Sydney, so lets hope that kind of culture can be closer to realisation than we give credit for. Apart from Harbrow, when was the last scandal? For Collingwood, last week!
 
What’s the drainage like on the Bond University ground?
Will it be a washout?
Are we going to have another season cursed by poor weather?
Is the continual poor weather over the years a contributing factor to our bad injury run?
Was hoping to just see some signs of Dew, not a bucketload of Raines.
 
17er said:
I agree with the accountability angle, but the media should never be relied on for that power. They don't need it in Sydney, so lets hope that kind of culture can be closer to realisation than we give credit for. Apart from Harbrow, when was the last scandal? For Collingwood, last week!
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I agree that the media shouldn't be relied on for accountability but in footy states it's just the way it is. You perform poorly - the media (and public) will smash you. It creates an us against them mentality inside the four walls of a club and lots of players come back the next week with a 'I'll show you' mentality. It rarely happens, but occasionally Gold Coast do get cooked by the southern media and my recollection is that the Suns will often come out and perform very well when that happens. The Geelong game at Metricon last year was a good example of that and a few years back when the Suns touched up North at Etihad.

But you need that kind of accountability/mentality every week if you want to be competitive in this league. That's why it's crucial to drive your own internal standards in Queensland. Brisbane were very good at it back in their premiership days. Leigh Matthews never rested on his laurels and players like Michael Voss were very demanding when it came to effort/aggression.
 

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