2018 Rolling All Australian Team

[These 4 Walls]

Don't see how Martin gets in a pocket. 29 goals is not enough

Not specifically to rebut you, though I really don't understand how people are thinking he isn't the AA HFF.

He is the only player to average over 25 touches and more than a goal a game, he has put the ball inside 50 more than any other player in the competition, still maintains one of the highest 1-on-1 win %'s (can not find a secondary source to this after hearing on a podcast this week) and has been involved in the outright most score involvements for the year. Even if you don't think he has been as good as a midfielder this year, can you say someone has been a better HFF this year? Dangerfield very similar as well though only exactly a goal a game.

We really like to focus on the stars darkness rather than their light at times.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

He is though.

That’s fine. Just providing context to his stats in yesterday’s game as that was the reference point you were using. He was for all intents and purposes playing against no-one.

He was not for all intents and purposes playing against noone. He was manned up at every contest.

His performance doesn't need 'contest'. He was magnificent. Clear best on ground.

In any case, part of being a great player is having the ability to kill a wounded opponent. His performance should not be discounted because he did exactly that.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Not specifically to rebut you, though I really don't understand how people are thinking he isn't the AA HFF.

He is the only player to average over 25 touches and more than a goal a game, he has put the ball inside 50 more than any other player in the competition, still maintains one of the highest 1-on-1 win %'s (can not find a secondary source to this after hearing on a podcast this week) and has been involved in the outright most score involvements for the year. Even if you don't think he has been as good as a midfielder this year, can you say someone has been a better HFF this year? Dangerfield very similar as well though only exactly a goal a game.

We really like to focus on the stars darkness rather than their light at times.

It is a curiosity that the high standards set by a player can work against them when it comes to votes and award.

For other select players, their high standards work for them. I could name a few.

 

[Sprout]

He was not for all intents and purposes playing against noone. He was manned up at every contest.

His performance doesn't need 'contest'. He was magnificent. Clear best on ground.

In any case, part of being a great player is having the ability to kill a wounded opponent. His performance should not be discounted because he did exactly that.

Actually, yeah it should be.

It’s one thing to be biased but to not factor in the playing ability of his opponent is crazy. Would you be waxing lyrical about his influence on the game if he was matched up against a first year player?

I thought Taylor Adams was exceptional yesterday. Certainly the best game I’ve seen him play. He’d be getting the votes if it were up to me and it wouldn’t be a close call.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

Actually, yeah it should be.

It’s one thing to be biased but to not factor in the playing ability of his opponent is crazy. Would you be waxing lyrical about his influence on the game if he was matched up against a first year player?

I thought Taylor Adams was exceptional yesterday. Certainly the best game I’ve seen him play. He’d be getting the votes if it were up to me and it wouldn’t be a close call.

Should Gawn give back the votes he gets this year for every game where his opponent's main ruck was absent, or was not fully fit?

Was Luke Parker's performance yesterday less worthy of praise because Kelly may have played better than him, if he had played?

It's a silly argument and shows bias on your own part. It's not the other way around.

Credit in any particular game should be given based on how a player played in that game, not how he might have played in a different game, or in different circumstances.

 

[BEEG]

Actually, yeah it should be.

It’s one thing to be biased but to not factor in the playing ability of his opponent is crazy. Would you be waxing lyrical about his influence on the game if he was matched up against a first year player?

I thought Taylor Adams was exceptional yesterday. Certainly the best game I’ve seen him play. He’d be getting the votes if it were up to me and it wouldn’t be a close call.

Treloar would have been AA before the injury Adams has been unbelievable since he went down.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

Treloar would have been AA before the injury Adams has been unbelievable since he went down.

Agreed. Yesterday wasn't out of the blue.

Tay started the season slowly, but he's been brilliant for several weeks now.

 

[BEEG]

Not specifically to rebut you, though I really don't understand how people are thinking he isn't the AA HFF.

He is the only player to average over 25 touches and more than a goal a game, he has put the ball inside 50 more than any other player in the competition, still maintains one of the highest 1-on-1 win %'s (can not find a secondary source to this after hearing on a podcast this week) and has been involved in the outright most score involvements for the year. Even if you don't think he has been as good as a midfielder this year, can you say someone has been a better HFF this year? Dangerfield very similar as well though only exactly a goal a game.

We really like to focus on the stars darkness rather than their light at times.

Should be on a flank had a very good year.

Martin hasn't been as good as last year but we don't take away AAs from people because they couldn't match the previous incredible year, Ohhh unless your Pendles.

 

[Sprout]

Should Gawn give back the votes he gets this year for every game where his opponent's main ruck was absent, or was not fully fit?

Was Luke Parker's performance yesterday less worthy of praise because Kelly may have played better than him, if he has played?

It's a silly argument and shows bias on your own part. It's not the other way around.

Credit in any particular game should be given based on how a player played in that game, not how he might have played in a different game, or in different circumstances.

lol okay mate. I’m the one whose biased because I think performances are weighted in accordance with the quality of the opponent

Both will make the AA side unless the selectors lose their marbles so it’s something of a moot point whose been better. Their strengths are different so it’s up to who you ask and what you value in a ruckman.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

lol okay mate. I’m the one whose biased because I think performances are weighted in accordance with the quality of the opponent

Both will make the AA side unless the selectors lose their marbles so it’s something of a moot point whose been better. Their strengths are different so it’s up to who you ask and what you value in a ruckman.

Yes you are, because they are not.

Three votes are given for each game. Four points are given for each game. Neither of these things change based on who is absent.

As a Pies fan, I know this better than anyone.

 

[Sprout]

Yes you are, because they are not.

Three votes are given for each game. Four points are given for each game. Neither of these things change based on who is absent.

As a Pies fan, I know this better than anyone.

I know that I wouldn’t be beside myself if Viney or Oliver got leather poisoning against the Suns’ midfield. It just isn’t worth as much. How this is even debateable is beyond me but you’re giving it a red hot crack. Will leave neutral observers to decide for themselves

 

[TiggerMan22]

Don't see how Martin gets in a pocket. 29 goals is not enough

29 goals and no.1 in the league for score involvement. With 1 game more to play.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Cool, so you're obviously the selection committee then?

Yes

 

[TiggerMan22]

What a bizarre post. In so many ways.

In what ways?

 

[Shaneprice97]

.Ryder could hardly jump yesterday. Bloke couldn’t even sit down for the half time talk. A bit of context.

Coaches votes and Brownlow betting have Gawn as the best ruckman this season. No shame in being second to him.

The AFL Brownlow predicter had Grundy on 17 votes and Gawn on 18 votes before this round, and they probably put Grundy down for 3 votes after yesterday, so seems like its gonna be really close between the two.

Ill hardly be surprised if Gawn comes out and has a BOG performance today though.

Is Grundy v Gawn in 2018 basically Dean Cox vs Sandilands of the late 2000’s(they made 1 AA team together in 2008, however neither made the top 10 in a relatively low scoring brownlow night).

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Not specifically to rebut you, though I really don't understand how people are thinking he isn't the AA HFF.

He is the only player to average over 25 touches and more than a goal a game, he has put the ball inside 50 more than any other player in the competition, still maintains one of the highest 1-on-1 win %'s (can not find a secondary source to this after hearing on a podcast this week) and has been involved in the outright most score involvements for the year. Even if you don't think he has been as good as a midfielder this year, can you say someone has been a better HFF this year? Dangerfield very similar as well though only exactly a goal a game.

We really like to focus on the stars darkness rather than their light at times.

Totally agree. If you're talking about a team to play in an actual game you probably need 8-10 guys taking a shift in the middle, including at least 1 who starts as a forward. If you're picking a team that tries to recognise the standout 22 players of the year (and perhaps taking a couple of creative liberties with positions in the process), chances are you'd take your chances with a goalkicking midfielder on the half forward flank, rather than the second or third best small/medium forward most years.

I'm taking someone like Martin or Dangerfield at half forward every year over a permanent forward who gives you somewhere between 2.0-2.5 goals per game and not much else, if it's between those two options.

 

[Back One Out]

Gawn will rightfully be given the number 1 ruck mantle by the AA selectors (Grundy on the bench)
Grundy will then win the Brownlow Medal from Cripps 2nd (Mitchell, Gawn and Oliver equal 3rd) and Magpie fans will bleat about the AA side

You heard it here first...

Nobody with any sense cares about where players are named. It's all about making the 22 and being given a guernsey

Does anyone remember that Nic Naitanui was 1st ruck in 2012 with Dean Cox in the forward pocket?
Does anyone remember that Dean Cox was 1st ruck in 2008 with Aaron Sandilands on the bench?

Does anyone really care?

At the end of the day, when they list a player's achievements, they say he is a dual All Australian or a 3-time All Australian.
Nobody gives a flying f*** whether they were picked on the bench or not.

 

[TheSierBear]

Grundy and Gawn are both superstars, both almost certainly will be picked in the AA team, it's just a matter of one as first ruck and one on the bench. I'd go with Grundy, think he's gone past Gawn in claims for the number first ruck choice.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Gawn will rightfully be given the number 1 ruck mantle by the AA selectors (Grundy on the bench)
Grundy will then win the Brownlow Medal from Cripps 2nd (Mitchell, Gawn and Oliver equal 3rd) and Magpie fans will bleat about the AA side

You heard it here first...

Nobody with any sense cares about where players are named. It's all about making the 22 and being given a guernsey

Does anyone remember that Nic Naitanui was 1st ruck in 2012 with Dean Cox in the forward pocket?
Does anyone remember that Dean Cox was 1st ruck in 2008 with Aaron Sandilands on the bench?

Does anyone really care?

At the end of the day, when they list a player's achievements, they say he is a dual All Australian or a 3-time All Australian.
Nobody gives a flying f*** whether they were picked on the bench or not.

I just want both to get in, which they should, couldnt care whos on the bench, especially considering how tight it is.

Grundy and Gawn are both superstars, both almost certainly will be picked in the AA team, it's just a matter of one as first ruck and one on the bench. I'd go with Grundy, think he's gone past Gawn in claims for the number first ruck choice.

I don’t think it really matters anymore, its become very subjective the longer Grundy has kept up his form.

Its like debating that the best midfielder should be named in the centre circle, like previously mentioned no one will remember whos named on the bench or the ruck spot, hopefully after Brownlow night they will just remember that 2 of the leagues best 5 players that season were ruckman.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I know that I wouldn’t be beside myself if Viney or Oliver got leather poisoning against the Suns’ midfield. It just isn’t worth as much.

Could be a similar story with Hawkins next week. If he kicks 10, at this stage that looks like it will win him the Coleman (similar to how Riewoldt's bag a couple of weeks ago may ultimately win him the Coleman) and makes him an absolute certainty for AA. If he kicks 5, he won't win the Coleman and he could miss out. But should running up your personal tally in Round 23 in a meaningless interstate game for your opposition really make the difference? I think Hawkins' candidacy is the same, as long as he reaches 60 (four goals next week).

 

[Sprout]

Could be a similar story with Hawkins next week. If he kicks 10, at this stage that looks like it will win him the Coleman (similar to how Riewoldt's bag a couple of weeks ago may ultimately win him the Coleman) and makes him an absolute certainty for AA. If he kicks 5, he won't win the Coleman and he could miss out. But should running up your personal tally in Round 23 in a meaningless interstate game for your opposition really make the difference? I think Hawkins' candidacy is the same, as long as he reaches 60 (four goals next week).

It doesn’t discredit his overall season any less, but that’s a measure of an overall season. Would you be posting in this thread to gush about Hawkins kicking a bag against Carlton?

 

[adammania9]

B: Tom Stewart - Alex Rance - Dylan Grimes
HB: Lachie Whitfield - Robbie Tarrant - Shannon Hurn (C)
C: Dayne Beams - Patrick Cripps - Andrew Gaff
HF: Jack Gunston - Jack Riewoldt - Dustin Martin
F: Luke Breust - Tom Hawkins - Lance Franklin
R: Brodie Grundy - Tom Mitchell - Clayton Oliver
I: Max Gawn - Jack Macrae - Elliott Yeo - Patrick Dangerfield

Jonas had an opportunity to finish the season off very strongly and get in but he got mauled yesterday and playing for a side who probably won’t play finals, he’s stiff to miss.

If it were up to me, Astbury > Rance, but it won’t happen.

 

[pazza]

B: Robbie Tarrant, Michael Hurley, Elliott Yeo
HB: Josh Kelly, David Astbury, Tom Stewart
C: Steele Sidebottom (c), Patrick Cripps, Andrew Gaff
HF: Devon Smith, Lance Franklin, Shaun Higgins
F: Luke Breust, Ben Brown, Jack Riewoldt
R: Max Gawn, Tom Mitchell, Clayton Oliver
Int: Brodie Grundy, Jack Macrae, Tim Kelly, Jack Gunston

 

[Sweet Jesus]

B: Robbie Tarrant, Michael Hurley, Elliott Yeo

Yeo plays in a BP?

He's attended more centre bounces this season than any other WC player.

 

[Forward Press]

B: Robbie Tarrant, Michael Hurley, Elliott Yeo
HB: Josh Kelly, David Astbury, Tom Stewart
C: Steele Sidebottom (c), Patrick Cripps, Andrew Gaff
HF: Devon Smith, Lance Franklin, Shaun Higgins
F: Luke Breust, Ben Brown, Jack Riewoldt
R: Max Gawn, Tom Mitchell, Clayton Oliver
Int: Brodie Grundy, Jack Macrae, Tim Kelly, Jack Gunston

Weird team. Yeo hasn't played in the back line all year, Hurn should be in and captain, Tim Kelly on the bench?