2019 ALL AUSTRALIAN TEAM

[Sttew]

Also interesting to see how many are considering Tim Kelly to be the "standout", while other players putting up similar numbers (eg. Marcus Bontempelli, Patrick Dangerfield) are thought of as a fair way off or having "down" years. From the numbers above, the best and most balanced all-round mid (attack, defense, inside/outside, efficiency) this year has probably been Rory Sloane.

This is where statistics are overrated. They don't record how Tim Kelly shrugs tackles, scoops the ball off the ground one-handed, or how well he works with teammates. I guess the coaches have got it wrong so far....

 

[Damon_3388]

This is where statistics are overrated. They don't record how Tim Kelly shrugs tackles, scoops the ball off the ground one-handed, or how well he works with teammates.

So it's moreso about aesthetics then?

In terms of actual measureable output, what's Kelly doing that's so far and away above the pack?

I guess the coaches have got it wrong so far....

I've never once looked at these much-lauded coaches votes to know. It's just their opinion, after all.

If the coaches are the first to blame when a team loses, why is their opinion on everything the gospel? Can't have it all ways...

 

[Snarls Barkley]

I've never once looked at these much-lauded coaches votes to know. It's just their opinion, after all.

If the coaches are the first to blame when a team loses, why is their opinion on everything the gospel? Can't have it all ways...

AFLCA Player of the Year has been the least reliable measure of POTY awards for the past 10 years.

 

[Damon_3388]

AFLCA Player of the Year has been the least reliable measure of POTY awards for the past 10 years.

Meanwhile, how many times has the player with the top Champion Data Player Ranking Score average either won the Brownlow, or the AFLPA MVP, or both?

 

[Thewlis Dish]

I reckon Bont has been the best midfielder in the game this season.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

Yep would you believe he had 40 disposals and only 7 effective kicks and people say he is better than Luke Shuey please

Weird post.

Treloar's DE was 80% on the weekend. That's 32 effective disposals from 40 touches which is great usage.

He had a couple of shanks which stood out but overall his usage was good, but those shanks get remembered.

In fact, he has a habit of doing that. His bad ones just tend to be really bad. His field kicking can definitely be inconsistent but his use by hand is sublime - one of the best in the comp. He's no Jarman or Buckley by any stretch but his usage is nowhere near as bad as most people say.

Case in point (because it's relevant to your post).

Treloar's disposal efficiency average for the year: 70.1 (at 33.4 touches per game which is no. 1 in the AFL).

Shuey's: 66.8 (at 27.1 touches per game).

Don't believe me? https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...ayerStatus2=A&tid2=19&pid2=3124&fid2=S&type=A

On the facts, AT has comfortably had a better season than Shuey and should be close to a lock for All Australian. He's had a monumental season.

 

[avishka5]

Weird post.

Treloar's DE was 80% on the weekend. That's 32 effective disposals from 40 touches which is great usage.

He had a couple of shanks which stood out but overall his usage was good, but those shanks get remembered.

In fact, he has a habit of doing that. His bad ones just tend to be really bad. His field kicking can definitely be inconsistent but his use by hand is sublime - one of the best in the comp. He's no Jarman or Buckley by any stretch but his usage is nowhere near as bad as most people say.

Case in point (because it's relevant to your post).

Treloar's disposal efficiency average for the year: 70.1 (at 33.4 touches per game which is no. 1 in the AFL).

Shuey's: 66.8 (at 27.1 touches per game).

Don't believe me? https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...ayerStatus2=A&tid2=19&pid2=3124&fid2=S&type=A

On the facts, AT has comfortably had a better season than Shuey and should be close to a lock for All Australian. He's had a monumental season.

From the tables Damon_3388 posted on the previous pages.

Yeah Shuey is prone to have worse disposal efficiency, when he's kick to hand ball ratio is much more higher than Treloars (Only Zorko has a better ratio than Shuey).

Also Shuey has a slightly better contested possession ratio.

 

[Damon_3388]

From the tables Damon_3388 posted on the previous pages.
View attachment 703331View attachment 703332
Yeah Shuey is prone to have worse disposal efficiency, when he's kick to hand ball ratio is much more higher than Treloars (Only Zorko has a better ratio than Shuey).

Also Shuey has a slightly better contested possession ratio.

Given his kick-to-handball ratio and contested possession rate, Treloar's disposal efficiency should be higher. However, his turnover rate is pretty low, and he's nowhere near the "ball butcher" he's reputed to be.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

From the tables Damon_3388 posted on the previous pages.
View attachment 703331View attachment 703332
Yeah Shuey is prone to have worse disposal efficiency, when he's kick to hand ball ratio is much more higher than Treloars (Only Zorko has a better ratio than Shuey).

Also Shuey has a slightly better contested possession ratio.

This is true and for what it's worth, I like Shuey. He's definitely a better kick than Treloar, but Treloar is more creative and precise by hand in close. They're different players.

However, 38.19% of 33.43 is 12.7 contested possessions per game. 40.9% of 27.14 is 11.1 contested possessions per game. So Treloar gets more contested possessions anyway (despite his lower rate) because he's more prolific, but his lower rate works against him in efficiency terms because it is harder for a stat to be ineffective if it's contested (it's also harder if it's a kick and I accept that this could explain the disparity in their efficiency stats).

Despite getting more hard ball than Shuey does in close, Treloar is vastly superior at finding the ball on the outside and has more scoreboard impact. However, Shuey, as more of a kicking player, gets better metres gained.

I find it interesting that Treloar has less inside 50s but more score involvements, which indicates more creativity and less wastefulness forward of centre. This doesn't compute with his 'bad user' reputation.

As I said, they're very different players but both very good ones.

What's clear to me though, is that on any objective basis, Treloar is having a better season and pretty comfortably at that. He is definitely more deserving of an AA spot right now.

 

[kaiserchief13]

JOM has to be in with a chance.. taking it all quietly and workmanlike with a bit of a pizazz.. ask
me about actual structure, stats, or even weather patterns then you have to be ****-eyed...

Disposal is awful. No chance to ever make a team unless his kicking improves 10 fold

 

[Damon_3388]

JOM has to be in with a chance.. taking it all quietly and workmanlike with a bit of a pizazz.. ask
me about actual structure, stats, or even weather patterns then you have to be ****-eyed...

Disposal is awful. No chance to ever make a team unless his kicking improves 10 fold

Interesting to compare his current season to last year:



Can you put all of the differences down to a change in role (with Tom Mitchell out)?

 

[Substance]

I reckon Bont has been the best midfielder in the game this season.

He's kicked 19 behinds, a lot of them very gettable with more than a few hitting the post. Better accuracy on goal would get him there I think.

 

[WCE Wizard]

Weird post.

Treloar's DE was 80% on the weekend. That's 32 effective disposals from 40 touches which is great usage.

He had a couple of shanks which stood out but overall his usage was good, but those shanks get remembered.

In fact, he has a habit of doing that. His bad ones just tend to be really bad. His field kicking can definitely be inconsistent but his use by hand is sublime - one of the best in the comp. He's no Jarman or Buckley by any stretch but his usage is nowhere near as bad as most people say.

Case in point (because it's relevant to your post).

Treloar's disposal efficiency average for the year: 70.1 (at 33.4 touches per game which is no. 1 in the AFL).

Shuey's: 66.8 (at 27.1 touches per game).

Don't believe me? https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...ayerStatus2=A&tid2=19&pid2=3124&fid2=S&type=A

On the facts, AT has comfortably had a better season than Shuey and should be close to a lock for All Australian. He's had a monumental season.

Next time have a look at big games and see shuey dominate and take over. For doubt go back to tbe grandfinal

 

[WCE Wizard]

This is true and for what it's worth, I like Shuey. He's definitely a better kick than Treloar, but Treloar is more creative and precise by hand in close. They're different players.

However, 38.19% of 33.43 is 12.7 contested possessions per game. 40.9% of 27.14 is 11.1 contested possessions per game. So Treloar gets more contested possessions anyway (despite his lower rate) because he's more prolific, but his lower rate works against him in efficiency terms because it is harder for a stat to be ineffective if it's contested (it's also harder if it's a kick and I accept that this could explain the disparity in their efficiency stats).

Despite getting more hard ball than Shuey does in close, Treloar is vastly superior at finding the ball on the outside and has more scoreboard impact. However, Shuey, as more of a kicking player, gets better metres gained.

I find it interesting that Treloar has less inside 50s but more score involvements, which indicates more creativity and less wastefulness forward of centre. This doesn't compute with his 'bad user' reputation.

As I said, they're very different players but both very good ones.

What's clear to me though, is that on any objective basis, Treloar is having a better season and pretty comfortably at that. He is definitely more deserving of an AA spot right now.

When’s the last time Treloar took a game by the throat and won it ?

 

[WCEbrody]

What's clear to me though, is that on any objective basis, Treloar is having a better season and pretty comfortably at that. He is definitely more deserving of an AA spot right now.

I think you'd be surprised how many people would disagree with you on that.

As absurd as it was, there was literally a thread on the Collingwood board discussing weather or not he should be dropped from the side.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Wow popped in to see others thoughts on AA and stumbled across a big statistical swordfight!
I don’t take much notice of the oppo but Luke Ryan is a gun kingy and the boys dribbling shit about Son Son being top ten at the moment well I rate Ryan’s season better.
Fyfe Ryan Walters would be in my team
Bhilly and Bmatera have big second halfs to the season they’ll be knocking on the door.
Must make a mention of A Pearce cooked now but before injury fullback mega beast mode

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

Next time have a look at big games and see shuey dominate and take over. For doubt go back to tbe grandfinal

That was last year. Has nothing to do with this discussion.

When’s the last time Treloar took a game by the throat and won it ?

Round 8.

I think you'd be surprised how many people would disagree with you on that.

As absurd as it was, there was literally a thread on the Collingwood board discussing weather or not he should be dropped from the side.

Absurd it was. I'll agree with you there.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I reckon Bont has been the best midfielder in the game this season.

Agree, I’ve seen some dominant games from Kelly this year but there have been games where Bontempelli looks like he’s playing in the wrong league. Like an 18 year old playing under 14s. Both Pies games and the Port game were unbelievably dominant.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Bont for me. Love watching him play. Tim Kelly is also a lock for AA. Cripps would be my third mid. Maybe because my mob always towel up his mob, I do not see why Shuey is even in the debate.

Fake Reg is clearly the primo ruck. Not his fault Pendles has aged and the rest of the Pie mids are meh.

Few of my mob would feature in AA discussions. Most folk only think Rampe is a pole dancer but he has been a standout this year. He merits consideration.

 

[00Stinger]

Bont for me. Love watching him play. Tim Kelly is also a lock for AA. Cripps would be my third mid. Maybe because my mob always towel up his mob, I do not see why Shuey is even in the debate.

Fake Reg is clearly the primo ruck. Not his fault Pendles has aged and the rest of the Pie mids are meh.

Few of my mob would feature in AA discussions. Most folk only think Rampe is a pole dancer but he has been a standout this year. He merits consideration.

I agree with Bont at 1.

He has been silky smooth this year and unlike Crippshe is damaging

Sent from my SM-A505YN using Tapatalk

 

[kaiserchief13]

Bont for me. Love watching him play. Tim Kelly is also a lock for AA. Cripps would be my third mid. Maybe because my mob always towel up his mob, I do not see why Shuey is even in the debate.

Fake Reg is clearly the primo ruck. Not his fault Pendles has aged and the rest of the Pie mids are meh.

Few of my mob would feature in AA discussions. Most folk only think Rampe is a pole dancer but he has been a standout this year. He merits consideration.

No Eagles player ever plays well at that dump of a ground in Sydney

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

No Eagles player ever plays well at that dump of a ground in Sydney

Nor at the WACA or your new concrete jungle.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Nor at the WACA or your new concrete jungle.

Not saying Shuey should be in but you realise AA is based on the whole season, not just one game....

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Not saying Shuey should be in but you realise AA is based on the whole season, not just one game....

Sure. Seen seasons of Shuey. Good ordinary player IMO

 

[Shadow89]

This is where statistics are overrated. They don't record how Tim Kelly shrugs tackles, scoops the ball off the ground one-handed, or how well he works with teammates. I guess the coaches have got it wrong so far....

And the former players, commentators, journalists, fans, recruiters from rival clubs etc. etc.