Training 2019 preseason

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Mattdougie said:
Crows have been into him for a couple years. I think he will have an ok year and play maybe half the games, they will slightly over pay for him with a late 2nd.

And if he is going back to Adelaide I hope he sinks it up, I’d rather lose someone that isn’t greedy than another best 22 player
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Crows will have good players wanting to come back to Melbourne- so they will be in the same boat.
 
ossie_21 said:
So odds on going to be losing a young and promising HBF/mid that we gave a chance to, thanks now I’m depressed
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Happens everywhere this isn't anything new.

Port just lost a whole heap and Brisbane have been losing them for years.

Just sucks when it is us though I agree. Bulldogs culture seems to be getting better so hopefully interstate players are happy to stay.
 

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Mattdougie said:
Sorry no one will ever be able to explain why we needed to move on from the 2016 style we had before we even tested if it would continue to work.

Basically same YOUNG list and coaches 16-17. In fact many said we had a better list going onto 17.

The coaching staff thought they were better than they were and made mistake after mistake. Still not sure they are on the right path but let’s hope they are.
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My reading, of the 2017 season, is that we did well for the first 10 weeks. We were sitting in 4th position with 6 wins 4 losses - this included a stupid lazy loss to Fremantle. Not a great start but good enough.

A frustrated Bev over reacted around about the middle of the season. Obviously, Bev thought if he got tough the players might lift out of their lethargy. Bev decided to get harsh on players like Liberatore and M Boyd - dropping them. But rather than lifting the team it had the opposite effect - the team confidence and intensity dropped and we lost games we should not have.

As the premiers we were being hit hard by each team each week and were holding up ok with a young team - Once Bev went negative, the toll of playing high intensity blockbusters week after week overwhelmed us.

Bev needed to coax the side with love - keep the faith with the premiership players to come good come finals. It may or may not have worked but that should have been his approach. The tough love should have waited for the post season. But once the tough love backfired mid-season it was over and he would have start thinking rebuild and that is where we have been since.

Personally, I like to think Bev knows it was an error and has learnt from it. He could have gone the other way - god I wish he had - but once the damage was done and it was too late to put it back together mid season.

I felt if we could some how limp to the finals, the boys would find the spirit for another effort and I think it was well within our abilities. As others have stated, the successful blueprint we implemented in 2016 was taxing and we could not sustain it for another 22 weeks - and I don't think we needed to do that. We just needed to make finals. Once we did, there would be a natural elevation internally and trepidation amongst our opponents. Other teams may have implemented our strategies - but in the heat of a finals battle we would be the more experienced at that game plan.
 
Our forward line still looks totally DIRE.

Gowers, Lipinski, Greene, Schache, Boyd, Cavarra, Dickson etc.

None of these blokes are capable of kicking 40+ at this stage.

We need a genuine forward and we need to pick one up soon.
 
AFDogs said:
Our forward line still looks totally DIRE.

Gowers, Lipinski, Greene, Schache, Boyd, Cavarra, Dickson etc.

None of these blokes are capable of kicking 40+ at this stage.

We need a genuine forward and we need to pick one up soon.
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Schache really improved in form in the second half of the season. At the rate he was going, if he played the full season, he would have kicked 35+ goals. Provided he stays fit, I think he's looking at a 40 goal season this year, assuming he barely even improves on last year.

Gowers, Lipinski and Greene are all capable of 30 goals (not 40, I agree) although of that lot, I can see Gowers as most likely to reach the 40 mark.

Boyd is a non-factor at this stage, he doesn't even look like he'll be playing in the early stages of this year, and even then I'm nearly ready to write him off entirely because of the constant mental health and injury struggles over the last few years.

Dickson's body is just broken. He is more than capable of a 40+ goal season if he stayed fit all year and had no complaints, but instead he's likely to be carrying niggles throughout the year and end up producing <20 from maybe 10 games.


With all these rumours surrounding English and Williams being enticed back home, God forbid if that happens, I'd hope we turn that situation into a decent key forward coming our way. I'm quite bullish on Sweet as a ruck, and I think we're well stocked for mids and half backs, but would obviously rather keep those two. If they do leave, poaching someone like Jarrod Brander would be a decent enough result for the long term
 
AFDogs said:
Our forward line still looks totally DIRE.

Gowers, Lipinski, Greene, Schache, Boyd, Cavarra, Dickson etc.

None of these blokes are capable of kicking 40+ at this stage.

We need a genuine forward and we need to pick one up soon.
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At least it’s better then it has been and we actually have a lot of options and competition. Don’t forget players like bailey dale and Sam Lloyd. There just has to be a marked improvement from three or four to around the 30 goal mark and we’ll look a lot more competitive then last season.
 
AFDogs said:
Our forward line still looks totally DIRE.

Gowers, Lipinski, Greene, Schache, Boyd, Cavarra, Dickson etc.

None of these blokes are capable of kicking 40+ at this stage.

We need a genuine forward and we need to pick one up soon.
Click to expand...
It’s really not that bad. Dickson, Lloyd and Gowers can all hit 30 each. I reckon that’s the expectation for Cavarra, too. Just need Schache to get to the 40 mark.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not great. But it’s better than it has been.
 
Lindsay_Gilbee said:
It’s really not that bad. Dickson, Lloyd and Gowers can all hit 30 each. I reckon that’s the expectation for Cavarra, too. Just need Schache to get to the 40 mark.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not great. But it’s better than it has been.
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From that list I'd say only Schache manages 30 goals. Gowers will offer relief in the middle, Dickson hasn't been durable the past two years, Lloyd has been playing an attacking wing role at VFL level and very few people have Cavarra in their best 22.

Noting Dickson's injury we have three players on the list who could get to 30 goals (Schache, Gowers and Wallis) and that relies on all three spending most of their gametime forward.

After last year I'd be satisfied if we find 5 players who manage 20+ goals per year, and only three blokes managed that last year including the Bont who did it playing a lot of midfield time because he's a freak. Schache got 17 goals after a quiet start so one of Lloyd/Caverra might get to 20 or Bailey Dale pulls his finger out to be that 5th.
 
Gowers can't convert. Good player, but 30 goals is his ceiling because he is an utterly horrible set shot like Dahlhaus and Hunter.

Cavarra will not get anywhere near 30, he is a small forward who has only played VFL it is unrealistic to put those expectations on him.

Shack and Dicko only two capable of going large.
 

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Mofra said:
From that list I'd say only Schache manages 30 goals. Gowers will offer relief in the middle, Dickson hasn't been durable the past two years, Lloyd has been playing an attacking wing role at VFL level and very few people have Cavarra in their best 22.

Noting Dickson's injury we have three players on the list who could get to 30 goals (Schache, Gowers and Wallis) and that relies on all three spending most of their gametime forward.

After last year I'd be satisfied if we find 5 players who manage 20+ goals per year, and only three blokes managed that last year including the Bont who did it playing a lot of midfield time because he's a freak. Schache got 17 goals after a quiet start so one of Lloyd/Caverra might get to 20 or Bailey Dale pulls his finger out to be that 5th.
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Our fifth leading goalkicker (Lipinski) kicked 12 goals. Only had 3 above 20 (Gowers, Bont and Wallis). If we manage five players on 20+ goals, that's already a huge improvement.

My minimum expectation this year is Schache to kick 35+ (anything less is a failure unless injured), Gowers to kick 30 and Wallis 25+. We then need at least 2 others on 20+ if we want any chance of competing. Our percentage was quite dire last year.

I expect our top 5 should consist of Schache, Gowers and Wallis, then we should hopefully see Dale playing again to make the top 5, with Cavarra possibly rounding out that top 5 for me
 
AFDogs said:
Gowers can't convert. Good player, but 30 goals is his ceiling because he is an utterly horrible set shot like Dahlhaus and Hunter.

Cavarra will not get anywhere near 30, he is a small forward who has only played VFL it is unrealistic to put those expectations on him.

Shack and Dicko only two capable of going large.
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He doesn't need to be the man taking the set shots. We have two of the best set shots in the competition (Schache and Dickson) already, although this is a skill he will hopefully be developing over time.

Gowers kicked 3 goals twice, 2 goals five times, and only had a single game without kicking a goal. He is a capable scorer, and should easily be able to hit 30 goals (aiming for the 35+ mark) considering he managed 26 in his first season while also pushing through the midfield. If he stays up forward, he should be aiming for the magical 2 goals/game target
 
yebiga said:
My reading, of the 2017 season, is that we did well for the first 10 weeks. We were sitting in 4th position with 6 wins 4 losses - this included a stupid lazy loss to Fremantle. Not a great start but good enough.

A frustrated Bev over reacted around about the middle of the season. Obviously, Bev thought if he got tough the players might lift out of their lethargy. Bev decided to get harsh on players like Liberatore and M Boyd - dropping them. But rather than lifting the team it had the opposite effect - the team confidence and intensity dropped and we lost games we should not have.

As the premiers we were being hit hard by each team each week and were holding up ok with a young team - Once Bev went negative, the toll of playing high intensity blockbusters week after week overwhelmed us.

Bev needed to coax the side with love - keep the faith with the premiership players to come good come finals. It may or may not have worked but that should have been his approach. The tough love should have waited for the post season. But once the tough love backfired mid-season it was over and he would have start thinking rebuild and that is where we have been since.

Personally, I like to think Bev knows it was an error and has learnt from it. He could have gone the other way - god I wish he had - but once the damage was done and it was too late to put it back together mid season.

I felt if we could some how limp to the finals, the boys would find the spirit for another effort and I think it was well within our abilities. As others have stated, the successful blueprint we implemented in 2016 was taxing and we could not sustain it for another 22 weeks - and I don't think we needed to do that. We just needed to make finals. Once we did, there would be a natural elevation internally and trepidation amongst our opponents. Other teams may have implemented our strategies - but in the heat of a finals battle we would be the more experienced at that game plan.
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And the reason for 2018?
 
My goal kicking expectations for next season based on my idea of our best 22 + the idea of every player playing at least 20 games + general vibe:

Gowers (Fwd): 30+
Schache (Fwd): 30+
Lloyd* (Fwd): 30+
Bonti (Mid/Fwd): 25+
Cavarra (Fwd): 20+
Wallace (Fwd/Mid): 25+
McLean (Mid/Fwd): 20+
Dunkley (Mid/Fwd): 15+
Williams (Mid/Fwd): 15+
Richards (Wing): 15+
Hunter (Wing): 10+
Trengove (Ruck/Resting Fwd): 10+
English (Ruck/Resting Fwd): 10+
Macrae (Mid): 8+
Libba (Mid): 8+
JJ (HBF/Wing) 8+
Crozier (HBF) 2+
Daniel (HBF) 2+
Naughton (CHB) 0
Cordy (FB): 0
Wood (Back): 0
Morris (Back): 0

Got a great feeling about this, reckon I’m right on the money here!

Depth:

Dickson: good for 2 a game when fit but I think he’s cooked

Greene: looked the goods this preseason and will put a lot of pressure on other forwards for their spot.

Picken: Great forward when up and going but I don’t think he’s coming back sadly.

Lipinski: I think he’ll spend more time playing in the midfield this season but has already shown he’s damaging forward of centre. Will put pressure on players like Dunkley, Williams and McLean.

Dale: looked like the next big thing end of 2017 but couldn’t keep fit last year. I still reckon he could explode and cement himself in our forward line but he needs to show a bit more, kind of back to square 1 in a way.

Toyd: I’d just be happy to see him play some consistent VFL footy. Pretty low down the pecking order right now, even if he gets himself fit.

West: Showed a lot as a forward in his juniors but I need more of an idea of his ability. Hopefully puts a lot of pressure the smaller forward spots and gets a few games this year.

Suckling: could play wing and half forward and kick a few. He’s my first in if anyone of the guys above are injured.

Jong: Great mark and pretty decent goalkicker but is just depth at this point really.

Anyone dare to disagree?
 
Some of the discussion about our goalkickers seems to imply that the player in question needs to improve for it to happen. Well yes, that's partly true but ...

We were one of the lowest goalscoring teams last year and yet we did create a heap of opportunities. Sometimes we got more i50s than the opposition but still lost the match by an unhealthy margin.

Four things need to happen - even modest improvements in these areas should yield significantly better team results:
  1. Our forward entries need to be more purposeful and better directed. This implies getting clear space and balance more often in the midfield and being able to pick out forwards on the lead (or even demand they run to the drop of the ball in clear space)
  2. Our forward system needs to improve such that we have more viable targets (big or small) inside the central V not just out on the boundary line. Some of that might have been due to being too inexperienced and undersized last year (Wallis a notable exception). Hopefully that's changing in 2019.
  3. We need to increase our defensive intensity inside our forward 50 to 2016 levels, so that forward entries end up being repeat opportunities to score rather than easy rebounds
  4. We need to improve our accuracy - especially from set shots where there are fewer excuses for missing
I know we don't necessarily have the big clunking talls to dominate in the air but it doesn't mean we can't create forward opportunities in good locations. Having a winning forward line is not necessarily about having a fast moving gorilla with vice like hands (though one of those would help!)

If these things happen all forwards will benefit from having more scoring opportunities. Then it's not such a big ask to turn Gowers' 26 goals (2018) into say 35. Or to expect 30 goals out of someone like Cavarra, Greene or McLean. With some natural improvement, a greater physical presnce and increased team opportunities it is quite reasonable to aim for a 40-goal season from Schache. And Dickson has already had a 50 goal season (2015) and a 40 goal season (2016) so if he does happen to stay fit there's no reason to think he couldn't kick 35+.

The important thing is to work on our system, not depend on some random bootstrap improvements from individuals.
 
Gowers can easily kick 30+. Yeah innaccuracy hurt him last season for very gettable goals, still ended up just short with a couple of injuries as well. Realistically can expect some measure of development from not only him but a better forward structure, as well as hopefully the delivery inside 50 being a big improvement.

If he sharpens up & we can consistently have Bont, Hunter, Macrae & Richards kicking it to him, he can go 40+ if he’s not used much through the midfield (keep him forward, please). Some of our mids need to go more direct & back in the team mate & themselves to hit the target
 
I know this will be an unpopular opinion but I’d like to see Gowers rotate through the middle a bit more. Some of his work in stoppages and centre bounce last year was incredible. I don’t really care if we have huge goal tallies from any individual player as long as we can get a good spread of goal kickers and our mids can impact the scoreboard a bit more as a collective.
 
Dazb86 said:
Thoughts on Schache? Not enough aggression in his game?
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Nice kick and that’s about it

Yet to excite me at all but I haven’t written him off just don’t expect much from him. Regardless he will never be a number one KPF and someone to be the man is still missing
 

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